Where Detroit public transportation goes from here.

[stasu1213]

DDOT need to have transit commuters on it's planning board. They could come up with a plan to make the system work. Too many car commuters making decisions on how the system should run. Put someone from a transit friendly city such as New York or Washington DC on the Regional Transit board. That person could show the locals how a transit system should operate

[brizee]

A universal fare card for DDOT, SMART and the People Mover was suggested recently by an attendee at one of the meetings.

The board says it first needs to hire a CEO and get over other "hurdles".

This seems like something that would be a quick win for this new bureaucracy and show immediate value less than a year after creation.

So let's see how many years it takes to get implemented.

[stasu1213]

A universal fare card for DDOT, SMART and the People Mover was suggested recently by an attendee at one of the meetings.

The board says it first needs to hire a CEO and get over other "hurdles".

This seems like something that would be a quick win for this new bureaucracy and show immediate value less than a year after creation.

So let's see how many years it takes to get implemented.

Not anytime soon. Detroit and the region are too car friendly and dependent

[DetroitPlanner]

You do know that job one is to try to get money so we can actually operate a better transit system don't you? We have easily the most underfunded transportation system in the free world around here.

[Russix]

Any one have a SMART bus map c. 2005? or anything pre-Livonia opt-out?

[professorscott]

Just to give you an idea how hard the RTA's job is, at the moment, let's take off on the idea of a universal fare card, which is a great idea.

Who pays to upgrade the fare collection equipment on the DDOT and SMART buses and at the People Mover stations? Not the RTA; it hasn't any funding to speak of [[and certainly not enough for such a task). Not DDOT; it can barely keep buses on the road. Ditto the People Mover. SMART could probably figure out a way to do it, but only on SMART buses which means it wouldn't be very universal.

So the fact that it is a great idea - I wasn't being sarcastic - doesn't help until we are in a position where somebody has the capacity to IMPLEMENT the idea. Job number 1, as someone else has pointed out, is to improve regional transit funding so we aren't the worst of the worst. THAT is the RTA's immediate job: to make a credible plan and sell it to the public so the public will vote to pay for more than what we have today.

[DetroitPlanner]

http://www.detroitnews.com/article/2...eld-CEO-search

[stasu1213]

http://www.detroitnews.com/article/2...eld-CEO-search

I hope that a person from New York or any other city that has a bustling transportation system is pick to be the CEO. That person could bring ideas being that he/she deals with transit in a transit dependent city.

[cramerro]

I hope that a person from New York or any other city that has a bustling transportation system is pick to be the CEO. That person could bring ideas being that he/she deals with transit in a transit dependent city.

Job one for the CEO will be to get a good team of consultants to firm up the regional transit plan, including investment level returns [[paint a picture of what different millage/registration fee levels can get you), and then run the PR campaign to get the ballot initiative approved. At that point, now the RTA is an operator AND a coordinator, you need the national transit expert. Until then, IMO, you need someone who can walk the talk and get four counties to approve the funding measure.

[cramerro]

Just to give you an idea how hard the RTA's job is, at the moment, let's take off on the idea of a universal fare card, which is a great idea.

Who pays to upgrade the fare collection equipment on the DDOT and SMART buses and at the People Mover stations? Not the RTA; it hasn't any funding to speak of [[and certainly not enough for such a task). Not DDOT; it can barely keep buses on the road. Ditto the People Mover. SMART could probably figure out a way to do it, but only on SMART buses which means it wouldn't be very universal.

So the fact that it is a great idea - I wasn't being sarcastic - doesn't help until we are in a position where somebody has the capacity to IMPLEMENT the idea. Job number 1, as someone else has pointed out, is to improve regional transit funding so we aren't the worst of the worst. THAT is the RTA's immediate job: to make a credible plan and sell it to the public so the public will vote to pay for more than what we have today.

On this particular project, which is low-hanging fruit to some extent, the upgrades needed by SMART, DDOT, and AATA would be minimal. Each has newer, electronic fareboxes that can accept common types of Smart Cards. The trick with the agencies is that you have to have near-identical fare POLICIES in order for the smart card to work. This includes how many/what type of fare levels [[senior, student, etc), the price for each, and also the transfer policies and cost. This will require a lot of work on the part of the agencies and will also require the publie hearings and approval processes that are required by law when you change fares.

The People Mover is the source of most the capital cost needed... about $10 Million. The turnstyles they use [[I think they have over 100 total), and the IT infrastructure that is used to run them, are original to the system, meaning they are over 25 years old. That entire system would have to be replaced in order to accept any sort of SmartCard media that is being considered. Nobody, including the PM, has that funding programmed any time soon... I believe the system is functioning without much issue now and is not critical to replace [[outside of the SmartCard issue).

[brizee]

A retread.

In a nationwide search for leadership we managed to pick the least surprising most predictable choice ever.

He might be the best transit operator ever, I don't know. I'm just...not very convinced.

[stasu1213]

A retread.

In a nationwide search for leadership we managed to pick the least surprising most predictable choice ever.

He might be the best transit operator ever, I don't know. I'm just...not very convinced.

Now I see what Kevyn Orr meant when he had said rich and lazy. Detroit and Michigan had developed a pattern of wasting a lot of money looking for a CEO, a police chief, or anyone to head an organization and pickin someone from the backyard's recycling bend. Makes you wonder was this person was fhe only selection and the money used for the search was spent somewhere else

[dtowncitylover]

Per his website, Larry Salci was the SEMTA head back in the 80s. However his work in St. Louis really impresses me because it dealt with two jurisdictions, Missouri and Illinois. That kind of experience would have been nice to have. Instead, we reuse the same old same old. I'm sure Hertel has been great at SMART, but we need new blood. The more things change, the more things stay the same.

[ghettopalmetto]

Per his website, Larry Salci was the SEMTA head back in the 80s. However his work in St. Louis really impresses me because it dealt with two jurisdictions, Missouri and Illinois. That kind of experience would have been nice to have. Instead, we reuse the same old same old. I'm sure Hertel has been great at SMART, but we need new blood. The more things change, the more things stay the same.

That is a bit disheartening. One would think that if you're going to spend time and money to conduct an exhaustive search, you try to find the best person for the job. Hertel should not have even been on the list.

What's his experience--running an agency that carries all of 40,000 people a day? Cleveland's RTA is five times larger. Now Hertel, one who has been entrenched in local politics and the local transit-as-a-last-resort paradigm for his entire career, is going to somehow coordinate a vastly more complex [[and still underfunded) network? Color me skeptical.

This really needed a consensus builder, with experience bridging political boundaries, managing complex transit operations, and demonstrated success with ambitious capital improvements. I just don't see it here.

I wish Mr. Hertel the best, for the sake of the region, but I would have really hoped for a fresh "can-do" perspective from the outside. That's just my personal take, though. Maybe Hertel has qualities other than local name recognition that will prove beneficial.

And regarding the candidate list, isn't that the same Al Martin who used to head DDOT???

[Eber Brock Ward]

I think Hertel was a solid choice, but would have preferred someone with less transit operating experience and more political experience.

Because -- let's face it -- until and unless the RTA gets the vehicle registration tax through an affirmative regional vote, there will be no transit to operate. You can delegate the planning parts of the operation to SEMCOG, as has been done, but the #1 job of the CEO is to secure funding for the organization's future. Period. The RTA could have hired the best planner and operational admin in the world, but it wouldn't matter because they wouldn't have anything to plan or operate until the RTA has an ongoing, dedicated source of funding.

And in order to do that, you'll need to get voters on board in all of the RTA region counties. Someone from STL or otherwise out of town will not be able to pull the political strings in the region as well as someone like Hertel. Instead, Hertel can work on getting politicians and other opinion leaders' endorsements for transit funding, once the item goes on the ballot in 2014.

That said, I hope that he has a short, perhaps 2 year, term on his contract, in order to get us through the referendum and just beyond and that someone with a more impressive operational/planning background comes in once the RTA is funded.

[professorscott]

I think Hertel was a solid choice, but would have preferred someone with less transit operating experience and more political experience.

I can't imagine anyone with more political experience than Mr. Hertel even being remotely interested in this position. In fact I know of few people with more political experience, period. Two county boards, fairgrounds director, state senator, CEO of both the RTCC and SMART, successfully got the "big four" to sign off on a regional transit plan in 2008 [[at which time I would have been astonished if anyone could get those four specific people to agree that McDonald's sells hamburgers), successful SMART millage vote. And that's just the stuff I can remember off the top of my head.

[DetroitPlanner]

I think Hertel was a solid choice, but would have preferred someone with less transit operating experience and more political experience.

More political experience???? His dad was a US Congressman and John himself served years representing Detroit in Lansing. He was also on both the Wayne County and Macomb County board of commissioners. He is a democrat but was appointed by a Republican to run the State Fair. He ran the Regional Transit Coordinating Committee for years prior to being the head of SMART. Snyder appointed him as his person to sit on the Metroparks. His brothers are all in politics as well. I don't think you could get someone with more political connections. He does not fit in either the Democrat or Republican mold.

Here is his bio:
http://www.metroparks.com/content.aspx?ID=161

Darn it! I had to go away to deal with an issue and Prof Scott got it!

[Eber Brock Ward]

1. You guys completely blew past the first part of that.

2. "Experience" was perhaps the wrong word. "Gravitas" would have been more appropriate. I have the impression that he's more of a behind the scenes operator than the transit equivalent of a whip in a legislature.

[DetroitPlanner]

1. You guys completely blew past the first part of that.

2. "Experience" was perhaps the wrong word. "Gravitas" would have been more appropriate. I have the impression that he's more of a behind the scenes operator than the transit equivalent of a whip in a legislature.

SMART has competent staff the run the operations. Its CEO needs to be able to communicate its needs to the public and legislature as well as be able to handle issues of internal conflict. The RTA needs those skills.

Any argument made that they do not have competent staff is not justified. It needs funding in order to improve operations. The RTA hopefully will be able to figure out a way to coordinate things and provide the funding needed to improve service across the board.

[ghettopalmetto]

SMART has competent staff the run the operations. Its CEO needs to be able to communicate its needs to the public and legislature as well as be able to handle issues of internal conflict. The RTA needs those skills.

Any argument made that they do not have competent staff is not justified. It needs funding in order to improve operations. The RTA hopefully will be able to figure out a way to coordinate things and provide the funding needed to improve service across the board.

To obtain funding, Hertel and the RTA are going to need a plausible vision to sell to the public, and be able to explain how that vision benefits the region. I'm not convinced that Mr. Hertel has transit vision beyond the status quo, or SEMCOG's stupid-ass "trains on tires".

If you're going to levy taxes for "big city" mass transit, people are going to expect more than the same old buses. Hell, people in Cleveland are still pissed about the $250 million closing-and-relandscaping of Euclid Avenue.

[professorscott]

"Experience" was perhaps the wrong word. "Gravitas" would have been more appropriate. I have the impression that he's more of a behind the scenes operator than the transit equivalent of a whip in a legislature.

Well, I can tell you this, and I think anyone knowledgable would back me up: the Regional Transit Authority legislation would likely never have been introduced, and certainly would never have passed, without the effort of Mr. Hertel. Others were deeply involved as well, but it is very hard for me to imagine a scenario in which that result came to pass and in which he would not have played a part.

The 2008 transit plan, even more so. That was his "baby" and, again, other people were involved, but it could never have been adopted without his efforts. I have heard people disparage the plan, but I believe it is the best plan that he could have put out there that the "big four" would approve, and the only regional plan that has ever been approved, going back to efforts three quarters of a century ago.

I think if you had to find someone to put in this position who understands transit, understands the need for it, is attuned to the political hurdles in metro Detroit, and knows how to get the public to vote to fund transit, you would be hard pressed to find a more qualified person.

[professorscott]

To obtain funding, Hertel and the RTA are going to need a plausible vision to sell to the public, and be able to explain how that vision benefits the region. I'm not convinced that Mr. Hertel has transit vision beyond the status quo, or SEMCOG's stupid-ass "trains on tires".

Well, I was one of the people that developed the current bus rapid transit document to which you refer, and I decided a long time ago not to lose any feathers over people's cynicism. BRT is an important part of the regional transit picture in cities as diverse as Albany, NY and Cleveland, OH.

We all have a big vision but that's not what the RTA's job is going to be. The RTA needs to focus on providing the best transit possible, constrained by the amount of money that can be made available. If you can figure out a way to fund ninety miles of subway, please let me know and I'll push for that as hard as I can.

I think the most important aspect of regional transit is that it moves people around the region quickly and reliably. Local buses aren't "quick" by nature and should be used to solve the last-mile problem. Right now, local buses are all we have. BRT is going to provide higher-speed transit covering a large part of the area, such that most metro Detroiters live within a few miles of a station.

I would have loved to propose something even faster and higher-end, but this work is always done in a fiscally constrained environment. The goal is to do the best we can with the funds likely to exist.

[ghettopalmetto]

Well, I was one of the people that developed the current bus rapid transit document to which you refer, and I decided a long time ago not to lose any feathers over people's cynicism. BRT is an important part of the regional transit picture in cities as diverse as Albany, NY and Cleveland, OH.

We all have a big vision but that's not what the RTA's job is going to be. The RTA needs to focus on providing the best transit possible, constrained by the amount of money that can be made available. If you can figure out a way to fund ninety miles of subway, please let me know and I'll push for that as hard as I can.

I think the most important aspect of regional transit is that it moves people around the region quickly and reliably. Local buses aren't "quick" by nature and should be used to solve the last-mile problem. Right now, local buses are all we have. BRT is going to provide higher-speed transit covering a large part of the area, such that most metro Detroiters live within a few miles of a station.

I would have loved to propose something even faster and higher-end, but this work is always done in a fiscally constrained environment. The goal is to do the best we can with the funds likely to exist.

This response begs the question:

Why hasn't Southeastern Michigan embraced bus "rapid" transit already? I mean, really. What kind of improvements are we talking about here?

Articulated buses?
New signage?
Color-coded routes?
Increased stop spacing?

Is there ANYTHING I've listed that isn't already do-able? That is, without sitting on hands for another 25 years praying for capital funding that will fall apart through regional squabbling?

I get it. Detroit and Michigan are afraid to ask Uncle Sam for money for infrastructure projects [[unless it's a FREEWAY! Wheeeeee!). So let's not get too ambitious. But let's not pretend that DDOT and SMART can't already be implementing "rapid" service. Look at WMATA Route 79, and tell me that SEMCOG's brilliant plan involves something more complicated than this:

http://www.wmata.com/about_metro/new...ReleaseID=2096

[professorscott]

Why hasn't Southeastern Michigan embraced bus "rapid" transit already? I mean, really. What kind of improvements are we talking about here?

Depending on the funding, for which we will have to compete with other regions [[and which requires a long term, dedicated source of local funding which we do not and have never had):

1. Articulated buses
2. Dedicated bus lanes where possible
3. Transit signal priority
4. Stations
5. Off-board fare collection to speed loading
6. Frequency of service
7. Reconfiguration of existing routes to maximize efficiency of the overall system

The actual paper is buried somewhere in the land of semcog.org.

The only thing light rail has that isn't mentioned above, service wise, and I'm talking here about your higher-speed regional type of rail, is 100% separation from traffic. That would be lovely to have, but that single extra feature is what drives up the cost.

[ghettopalmetto]

Depending on the funding, for which we will have to compete with other regions [[and which requires a long term, dedicated source of local funding which we do not and have never had):

1. Articulated buses
2. Dedicated bus lanes where possible
3. Transit signal priority
4. Stations
5. Off-board fare collection to speed loading
6. Frequency of service
7. Reconfiguration of existing routes to maximize efficiency of the overall system

The actual paper is buried somewhere in the land of semcog.org.

The only thing light rail has that isn't mentioned above, service wise, and I'm talking here about your higher-speed regional type of rail, is 100% separation from traffic. That would be lovely to have, but that single extra feature is what drives up the cost.

That increase in cost is also the factor that drives up the level of service, and the level of real estate investment along the corridor.

What you've mentioned are characteristics of an express bus route. This is by no means "rapid", or anything close to it. There is nothing you've listed that Detroit can't already be doing without calling it some sort of revolutionary "rapid" bus system. People aren't stupid--they know when they're being played, and if this is the world-changing transit option you give them, they'll never vote for another transit levy again.