Union Teachers ditch to attend anti-RTW rally

[Novine]

You really have no excuse for such ignorant comments.

[Det_ard]

WOW........

As a teacher of several years, some of the generalizations and gross exaggerations in this thread have left me speechless and quite disheartened.

As a parent of several years, some of the teachers my children have had to endure have left me speechless and quite disheartened. Thanks to their strong union protections and the administration's tendency to serve teachers before students or parents, they're still there...

If you want your profession to be more respected it will have to be willing to measure and reward performance and quickly remove bad teachers, of whom there are more than a few. Our children and our country's future depend on it. If your profession continues to resist improvement, don't be surprised that the public's opinion of your profession continues to suffer.

[gumby]

Wow you really have no clue what teachers actually do. Do you really believe that teachers day ends when the bell rings? I guess the lessons plan themeslves and homework is graded by fairie. Lord knows they do not have mandetory staff meetings before and after school not to mention quarterly parent teacher conferences which they have to prepare for. Oh and teachers also have to continually take classes paid for out of their own pocket during those sumers "off" to maintain their teaching certificate. But yeah stick it to those lazy teachers who spend every night grading papers til ten or eleven a night because "fuck them" thats why.

I bet you are rude to your wait staff too when to go to a restaurant.

Teachers top out at 60K to 80K a year [[depending on the district). They work 181 days a year. Those 181 days they work 8am to 3pm. If they have to put in a couple extra hours they talk themselves up to sainthood level for working an 8 hour day.

On top of that 60K to 80K for working 181 days a year, teachers get a pension and healthcare for life on the backs of taxpayers [[this is starting to change, thank goodness). Figure the cost of the pension, healthcare, as well as the reduced hours into how much we pay teachers. The hourly wage would be astonishing.

Teachers, once they are granted tenure, have very little accountability. The only reason why we have awesome teachers are because some are dedicated and truly care. The other teachers that don't care have ZERO motivation or need to try, as the union will have their ass for whatever stupidity they want to do.

Look at Bay City Schools, page 91 of their union contract. The teachers used their bargaining power to get it written into the contract that you can be drunk at work 4 times, and not until the fifth time will you be fired. Go one page over in the contract and you find out that Bay City Schools teachers can be HIGH ON DRUGS twice at work, and not until the third time will they get fired.

Unions are so over-reaching and punitive to employers and taxpayers. That's why you see folks that are so opposed to them.

It's very funny to see how upset these unions works are and they're crying "SHAME" on Snyder.

Well guess what, your dumb-ass leadership put two union power-grabs on the ballot that got defeated easily. Your leadership's dumb move has shown how much Michigan likes unions; we don't

While you see a lot of folks shutting down school districts by calling in sick to go protest, the rest of us that are opposed to unions will be at work, being productive, making an honest wage, not getting pensions that bankrupt the companies we work for.

[Jimaz]

...Now am I allowed to have an opinion?

Not on the internet with a Join Date as recent as Oct 2012. What? Do you feel entitled?!

You've been acting pretty brazen for a newbie.

[p69rrh51]

And a bah-humbug to you, too, Ebeneezer. I'm sure the workhouses are only half-full during this season.

I posted a reply earlier but promised Lowell no person attacks. Although if your are interested I could always use help to make payroll or pay health benefits. I provide health benefits for my employees even though I am under no obligation to do so. Bah Humbug!!!

[DetroitTeacher]

If you catch the name and number of that paper grading fairy can you pass it on to me? I'm never done grading before 10pm every night and my weekends are spent planning and replanning lessons. Also, if you can find someone to attend mandatory staff meetings each Monday and Wednesday until 5:30 on my behalf, can you pass along their name? Oh and let's not forget my clone who attends classes for me during the summer or who writes the School Improvement Plan, for the state, over the course of the school year [[which is a beast, let me tell you). Let's not forget writing new curriculum or finding a way to reach the kid who reads at the first grade level in your senior English class [[that's a tricky little task).

Thanks for the backup But really, the name of that grading fairy would really help me get things accomplished at home that need to be done but are neglected for the sake of my kids.

Wow you really have no clue what teachers actually do. Do you really believe that teachers day ends when the bell rings? I guess the lessons plan themeslves and homework is graded by fairie. Lord knows they do not have mandetory staff meetings before and after school not to mention quarterly parent teacher conferences which they have to prepare for. Oh and teachers also have to continually take classes paid for out of their own pocket during those sumers "off" to maintain their teaching certificate. But yeah stick it to those lazy teachers who spend every night grading papers til ten or eleven a night because "fuck them" thats why.

I bet you are rude to your wait staff too when to go to a restaurant.

[KOMPOST]

I worked with the UAW for years and saw the collective bargaining process up close. I also studied labor law for a time at Wayne State. Now am I allowed to have an opinion?

Sure. But you're getting your lunch eaten in this thread.
You should start a new one to illustrate your pro-RTW stance.
Base it on a recent local news article that paints unions in a horribly negative light.
That should do it!

[Scottathew]

Wow you really have no clue what teachers actually do. Do you really believe that teachers day ends when the bell rings? I guess the lessons plan themeslves and homework is graded by fairie. Lord knows they do not have mandetory staff meetings before and after school not to mention quarterly parent teacher conferences which they have to prepare for. Oh and teachers also have to continually take classes paid for out of their own pocket during those sumers "off" to maintain their teaching certificate. But yeah stick it to those lazy teachers who spend every night grading papers til ten or eleven a night because "fuck them" thats why.

I bet you are rude to your wait staff too when to go to a restaurant.

I'm married to a teacher and I used to work for school districts. I know what teachers do.

Teachers do have to take home papers and grade them. They also get to grade them on their prep hour as well.

Teachers work 181 days a year, 7-9 hours a day. During those 181 days, they work hard, just like the rest of us. The other 184 days they have off.

Teachers work hard during the school year, and they are also compensated really, really well. Too well to pull stunts like the sick-out today that closed Warren Con Schools, Fitzgerald Schools, Taylor Schools, as well as other districts in the state.

You think I'm rude to wait staff because I'm anti-union? That's funny and a big distriction from the real issue. But when people don't have good arguments to stand on they do result to name calling and personal insults, so I forgive you :-)

[gumby]

You think I'm rude to wait staff because I'm anti-union? That's funny and a big distriction from the real issue. But when people don't have good arguments to stand on they do result to name calling and personal insults, so I forgive you :-)

No, I think you are rude to wait staff because you are coming off as a prick with your anti-teacher rant. Hows that for name calling? Do you forgive me now?

[JVB]

Sure. But you're getting your lunch eaten in this thread.
You should start a new one to illustrate your pro-RTW stance.
Base it on a recent local news article that paints unions in a horribly negative light.
That should do it!

I don't need to paint the unions in a negative light, they've been doing it to themselves for years. People joined unions because they offered a valuable service, now people are leaving unions because they have nothing to offer anymore. Don't shoot the messenger, the unions brought this on themselves.

[Bham1982]

Median salary for a high school teacher is 56,000. It is not 60-80k.

That sounds about right. Teachers may top out in the 60-80k range, but mid-50's sounds roughly correct for Metro Detroit.

It isn't bad pay considering you have the opportunity to make more during the summer, and the pensions/medical are good, but I don't think anyone does it for the money.

[jcole]

I posted a reply earlier but promised Lowell no person attacks. Although if your are interested I could always use help to make payroll or pay health benefits. I provide health benefits for my employees even though I am under no obligation to do so. Bah Humbug!!!

If you think that's a personal attack, you haven't been reading Dyes for very long.

[Honky Tonk]

If you catch the name and number of that paper grading fairy can you pass it on to me? I'm never done grading before 10pm every night and my weekends are spent planning and replanning lessons. Also, if you can find someone to attend mandatory staff meetings each Monday and Wednesday until 5:30 on my behalf, can you pass along their name? Oh and let's not forget my clone who attends classes for me during the summer or who writes the School Improvement Plan, for the state, over the course of the school year [[which is a beast, let me tell you). Let's not forget writing new curriculum or finding a way to reach the kid who reads at the first grade level in your senior English class [[that's a tricky little task).

Thanks for the backup But really, the name of that grading fairy would really help me get things accomplished at home that need to be done but are neglected for the sake of my kids.

You forgot the part about dealing with rude, unappreciative, parents, and/or kids.

[Motor City Sam]

You forgot the part about dealing with rude, unappreciative, parents, and/or kids.

And not just rude or unappreciative parents and students; how about the ones who go further than that and actually assault the teachers.

Man, twenty years ago I never would have believed we would see such an anti teacher sentiment in this country. My youngest sister is a teacher. I know what she went through to become a teacher and I know what she has to do to remain one. I know the extra things she does for her students. I also know that she is more educated than me, does a much more important job than I do, and makes less money than I make.

You'll never hear me talking bad about teachers or saying that they have an easy job.

[noise]

I'm married to a teacher and I used to work for school districts. I know what teachers do.

Teachers do have to take home papers and grade them. They also get to grade them on their prep hour as well.

Teachers work 181 days a year, 7-9 hours a day. During those 181 days, they work hard, just like the rest of us. The other 184 days they have off.

Teachers work hard during the school year, and they are also compensated really, really well. Too well to pull stunts like the sick-out today that closed Warren Con Schools, Fitzgerald Schools, Taylor Schools, as well as other districts in the state.

You think I'm rude to wait staff because I'm anti-union? That's funny and a big distriction from the real issue. But when people don't have good arguments to stand on they do result to name calling and personal insults, so I forgive you :-)

If you're married to a teacher and this is what you think teachers do, maybe you're married to one of those BAD TEACHERS the union is protecting?

[Islandman]

If anyone is interested, I'll be at work tomorrow. All 135 of my seniors are taking their cap and gown pictures and I wouldn't miss that excitement for any amount of money or for any protest. I won't get much teaching done tomorrow, the kids will be far too excited and will be "buzzing" from their experience. It's OK, though...I share their excitement with them Union or not, it's one of the highlights of my job and it's something that few people get to experience...I wouldn't give that up for anything.

Thanks for your dedication DT.

[Danny]

Solidarity Forever! my proletarians. Fight this Right-to-Work Law. Snyder, the Nerd will be out as a governor of Michigan in 2013.

[oladub]

The Detroit News is claiming that an unusual number of teachers are calling in sick and that this has, so far, shut down three school systems illegally punishing students and their parents for Lansing's actions.
http://www.detroitnews.com/article/2...xt%7CFRONTPAGE.

[noise]

How dare people use their days off as they desire! What next? Weekends off? 8 hour work days? Fair wages? Unbelievable!

[Danny]

Corporations who are against unions since its Marxist materialistic revolutionary founding long ago are the ones outsourcing jobs oversees for seek cheap non-union slave wage labor in order to increase free trade enterprise and globalization tactics. Thus putting people out of work and killing unions in the process.

[p69rrh51]

If you think that's a personal attack, you haven't been reading Dyes for very long.

No I took down the personal attack, I posted that for the few who did see it. It was totally unnecessary, I was caught up in the moment then.

[DetroitTeacher]

A prep? I haven't had a prep in years. I mean, technically I do. I don't actually get to do any prepping on my prep. I am with kids during my prep, helping them with work, doing the yearbook [[I do that at home, too), planning senior activities [[oh yeah, I also do that at home), gather data for the state, work on the School Improvement Plan [[another thing I take home because there aren't enough spare minutes during the day).

Have I gotten one iota of Christmas shopping done for MY family? No. But...I did manage to get to the store to buy [[from my own funds) shirts and ties for the kids to wear for their senior cap and gown pictures. I did get to the store to buy gifts for a family from our school that doesn't have a home to live in, let lone gifts and there are little kids involved. I also managed to write over 80 recommendation letters [[all personalized and individual to that student) for college.

I don't know what your wife does but it sure isn't anything compared to what my colleagues and I do. I'm taking a well deserved break, at the moment, from grading 135 essays [[each more than 2 pages long). I STILL have to grade some other work, as well, and I will get it done tonight. Have you had dinner yet? Bet your wife cooked up something swell with all her time off. I haven't even had lunch yet [[what with my 20 minute lunch break spent with kids, dealing with their issues). Oh yeah, AND I teach an online class for kids who are short credits...in my plethora of spare time. I figured it out...I make , essentially, slightly more than minimum wage for all of the time I spend on school stuff...[[but that does include all of my out of pocket expenses, spent directly on kids that I didn't give birth to) and my teaching other teachers in seminars and workshops [[not compensated, of course). Kudos to your wife if she's not doing all that she can for her students...something to be proud of.

Speaking of being attacked by parents and kids...I have been attacked once this year, already [[well, I was the victim of a punch meant for someone else), twice last year [[albeit by a student with ASD who really didn't do it with any malice) and once the year before by a parent who said I was racist [[yeah, I'm picking on YOUR kid because HE is the ONLY black kid in my class...righhhhhhhht...try I am "picking" on him because I KNOW he can do better than he was doing and I expected more from him than you do...you told me yourself that he isn't smart enough to go to college but I felt differently and I get hit??). Did I take one day off after any of those attacks? Nope. I kept right on teaching. I'm not even going to go into the verbal attacks I encounter on a weekly basis...

I'm married to a teacher and I used to work for school districts. I know what teachers do.

Teachers do have to take home papers and grade them. They also get to grade them on their prep hour as well.

Teachers work 181 days a year, 7-9 hours a day. During those 181 days, they work hard, just like the rest of us. The other 184 days they have off.

Teachers work hard during the school year, and they are also compensated really, really well. Too well to pull stunts like the sick-out today that closed Warren Con Schools, Fitzgerald Schools, Taylor Schools, as well as other districts in the state.

You think I'm rude to wait staff because I'm anti-union? That's funny and a big distriction from the real issue. But when people don't have good arguments to stand on they do result to name calling and personal insults, so I forgive you :-)

[Wesley Mouch]

Random thoughts...

I expect all responsible employees, including teachers, to honor their obligations. It would be disappointing if they used sick days to their personal advantage. I doubt many would do this.

Its quite possible to believe in the dignity of teaching and the value of the teachers we have, and still support RTW.

Radical Teachers no more represent teaching than the Koch Bros. represent conservatives.

[Scottathew]

I agree Wesley.

I hope DetroitTeacher doesn't take my opinion on unions and right-to-work as an insult personally or a question of his\her character or efforts.

From what I've seen, DetroitTeacher, just like my wife, is a dedicated teacher. DetroitTeacher most certainly has more responsibilities because of the failure of the DPS administration, and it's great to have courageous and generous people that step up to make up for where the system is failing.

That being said, even though I appreciate teachers and I'm married to one, I find that the recent pension reforms and Right-To-Work legislature to be an improvement for Michigan.

The way we did things 10 years ago wasn't sustainable. Unions have made a lot of concessions, but we're still very far from market priced wages that would help struggling industries and governments.

Right to work is great for many reasons, one being that people should not have to contribute funds to a political organization as terms of taking a job, especially a public job.

Unions made their power-grab in November and failed at a very high rate. The republicans in Lansing responded in-kind, but the big difference is that they have support of the majority of folks in Michigan, as well as the votes required.

[Novine]

"The way we did things 10 years ago wasn't sustainable. Unions have made a lot of concessions, but we're still very far from market priced wages that would help struggling industries and governments."

I'll give you credit, you're the first RTW proponent who's been honest on this point. One of the goals of RTW is to bring down wages and benefits, all the BS talking points about "freedom to work" to the contrary. Businesses aren't interested in seeing workers "freed" to negotiate better wages and benefits. It's all about keeping down costs and increasing profitability at the expense of workers.