Union Teachers ditch to attend anti-RTW rally

[jcole]

Why should I focus on others? I have enough problems on my own and have absolutely no interest in theirs just as they have no interest in my problems! Seriously would you like to help cure all my problems-I would think not. Most people can take care of themselves and charities are for those who need real help.

And a bah-humbug to you, too, Ebeneezer. I'm sure the workhouses are only half-full during this season.

[Motor City Sam]

I find it interesting that the some of the same people who tell me that employees at WalMart should "just go find another job if they don't like the low wages" also disagree with me when I say that if you don't want to be in a union, you don't have to apply for a job at a union shop.

[DetroitTeacher]

If anyone is interested, I'll be at work tomorrow. All 135 of my seniors are taking their cap and gown pictures and I wouldn't miss that excitement for any amount of money or for any protest. I won't get much teaching done tomorrow, the kids will be far too excited and will be "buzzing" from their experience. It's OK, though...I share their excitement with them Union or not, it's one of the highlights of my job and it's something that few people get to experience...I wouldn't give that up for anything.

[EastsideAl]

All of that is very true and this country owes an enormous debt to those people. But most of the things they fought for have been codified into labor law, so don't you think that today's workers should have the option to decide if they want to remain part of a union? If the unions still have something to offer then they will never be short of members. Right To Work doesn't eliminate unions, it just forces them to compete for members, and competition is good.

You've really bought the AFP's BS hook, line, and sinker, haven't you?

I've wondered for a while now just who it was that believed those ridiculous "war is peace" and "day is night" ads.

[JVB]

You've really bought the AFP's BS hook, line, and sinker, haven't you?

I've wondered for a while now just who it was that believed those ridiculous "war is peace" and "day is night" ads.

If you're saying that labor laws are not enforced, can you give me some examples? Rhetoric is one thing, but without proof it's meaningless.

[DetroitTeacher]

and we don't get paid for those 184 days off a year. We also go to training and classes and workshops and prepare for the upcoming year. Let's not beat this dead horse. In 6 years, I've taken 4 days off...all of which were because I was sick with the flu for 2 days, pink eye for a day [[right before a holiday mind you) and bronchitis [[again, right before a forced vacation of which I spent the entire week in bed nursing that and ended up with 2 broken ribs from coughing). Yeah, a fun time we have on our off time. I probably wouldn't have gotten sick if parents would have kept their sick kids at HOME!

Unions are bankrupting our industries, our cities, and are a contributing factor in outsourcing.

It doesn't surprise me that teachers would abuse their sick time. They only get 184 days off a year.

[JVB]

Teachers do a lot of thankless work, I think they at least deserve the right to opt out of the teachers union if they want to.

[Hardhat]

Wall Streeters crashed the economy, but they're in New York, so in the search for victims, for some reason it's been so much easier to get down on the local $30-an-hour bolt-turners. No one remembers that those well-paid autoworkers circulated their union-won pay back in the economy. They bought boats, furniture, cars, restaurant meals and educated their kids. The economy works a lot better in this virtuous cycle than the "I got mine" philosophy. Some people say unions aren't needed any more - I think they're needed more than ever. They help redistribute wealth [[yup I said it, and it's a good thing), they still give workers a voice in safe working conditions, they give workers empowerment against unreasonable company policies [[people getting fired for smoking or being overweight? WTF?) There are lots of great companies that are nonunion. But people make a huge mistake in assuming that the conditions which created the need for unions earlier last century aren't going to re-occur. History would never repeat itself, would it?

[EastsideAl]

If you're saying that labor laws are not enforced, can you give me some examples? Rhetoric is one thing, but without proof it's meaningless.

That's not my point [[although most labor laws in this country are barely enforced). My point is the "Right To Work doesn't eliminate unions" line. Which is patently ridiculous, since the whole point of RTW is to eliminate unions. In fact, the whole point of the entire history of RTW laws in the U.S. has been to keep unions out of the states where those laws are in force. It's why the Koch Bros. and other billionaires are pouring zillions of dollars into this campaign to expand RTW laws around the country.

[EastsideAl]

Wall Streeters crashed the economy, but they're in New York, so in the search for victims, for some reason it's been so much easier to get down on the local $30-an-hour bolt-turners. No one remembers that those well-paid autoworkers circulated their union-won pay back in the economy. They bought boats, furniture, cars, restaurant meals and educated their kids. The economy works a lot better in this virtuous cycle than the "I got mine" philosophy. Some people say unions aren't needed any more - I think they're needed more than ever. They help redistribute wealth [[yup I said it, and it's a good thing), they still give workers a voice in safe working conditions, they give workers empowerment against unreasonable company policies [[people getting fired for smoking or being overweight? WTF?) There are lots of great companies that are nonunion. But people make a huge mistake in assuming that the conditions which created the need for unions earlier last century aren't going to re-occur. History would never repeat itself, would it?

And I couldn't agree with all of this more.

[JVB]

My point is the "Right To Work doesn't eliminate unions" line. Which is patently ridiculous, since the whole point of RTW is to eliminate unions.

The why are unions active in every single Right To Work state?

[Novine]

It's funny that someone brought up Montgomery, Alabama. It's one of the few places in that state where someone can make a decent wage. Why? Largely because of the confluence of public sector jobs in the state government, state universities and the military.

"In addition to housing many Alabama government agencies, Montgomery has a large military presence due to Maxwell Air Force Base; public universities Alabama State University, Troy University [[Montgomery campus), and Auburn University at Montgomery"

Nice job cherry-picking the one city in Alabama that's "rich" thanks to public sector employment! It probably has the highest level of union membership in the state that has the highest level of union membership in the Deep South.

http://blog.al.com/businessnews/2012...ads_in_so.html

Alabama once had union participation rates near 30%. As union participation rates have fallen, so has Alabama's per capita income levels although it's not as low as some of its less unionized neighbors.

[Scottathew]

and we don't get paid for those 184 days off a year. We also go to training and classes and workshops and prepare for the upcoming year. Let's not beat this dead horse. In 6 years, I've taken 4 days off...all of which were because I was sick with the flu for 2 days, pink eye for a day [[right before a holiday mind you) and bronchitis [[again, right before a forced vacation of which I spent the entire week in bed nursing that and ended up with 2 broken ribs from coughing). Yeah, a fun time we have on our off time. I probably wouldn't have gotten sick if parents would have kept their sick kids at HOME!

Teachers top out at 60K to 80K a year [[depending on the district). They work 181 days a year. Those 181 days they work 8am to 3pm. If they have to put in a couple extra hours they talk themselves up to sainthood level for working an 8 hour day.

On top of that 60K to 80K for working 181 days a year, teachers get a pension and healthcare for life on the backs of taxpayers [[this is starting to change, thank goodness). Figure the cost of the pension, healthcare, as well as the reduced hours into how much we pay teachers. The hourly wage would be astonishing.

Teachers, once they are granted tenure, have very little accountability. The only reason why we have awesome teachers are because some are dedicated and truly care. The other teachers that don't care have ZERO motivation or need to try, as the union will have their ass for whatever stupidity they want to do.

Look at Bay City Schools, page 91 of their union contract. The teachers used their bargaining power to get it written into the contract that you can be drunk at work 4 times, and not until the fifth time will you be fired. Go one page over in the contract and you find out that Bay City Schools teachers can be HIGH ON DRUGS twice at work, and not until the third time will they get fired.

Unions are so over-reaching and punitive to employers and taxpayers. That's why you see folks that are so opposed to them.

It's very funny to see how upset these unions works are and they're crying "SHAME" on Snyder.

Well guess what, your dumb-ass leadership put two union power-grabs on the ballot that got defeated easily. Your leadership's dumb move has shown how much Michigan likes unions; we don't

While you see a lot of folks shutting down school districts by calling in sick to go protest, the rest of us that are opposed to unions will be at work, being productive, making an honest wage, not getting pensions that bankrupt the companies we work for.

[Novine]

"The why are unions active in every single Right To Work state?"

Because people still need to organize to fight for themselves. That doesn't change the fact that point of right-to-work legislation is to kill off the unions. The idea that the Republicans and their fellow travellers are "fighting for worker rights" is so laughable, only a fool would believe it.

[Novine]

"While you see a lot of folks shutting down school districts by calling in sick to go protest, the rest of us that are opposed to unions will be at work, being productive, making an honest wage, not getting pensions that bankrupt the companies we work for."

The usual rant from people who tell us how easy it is to be a teacher but could never hack it in the classroom.

[Hardhat]

If you're saying that labor laws are not enforced, can you give me some examples? Rhetoric is one thing, but without proof it's meaningless.

What world are you living in? OF COURSE LABOR LAWS AREN'T BEING ENFORCED! The construction industry is rife with workers not getting paid for overtime, and getting threatened with firing for speaking up. And don't get me started about the horrors undocumented workers go through in this country. Yes they're undocumented, but they're humans with families and subject to labor laws and they deserve to be treated fairly. Google "Walmart workers" and read about the lack of promotions, unfair treatment, discrimination and general suckiness that goes hand-in-hand with working for the world's largest retailer.
You're deluded if you think labor laws aren't being enforced every day in this country.

[EastsideAl]

The why are unions active in every single Right To Work state?

Labor unions may exist in those states, but they are extremely limited. Unionization rates are well below 10% in almost all RTW states, which, again, is the entire point of RTW laws.

[Shollin]

Median salary for a high school teacher is 56,000. It is not 60-80k.

[JVB]

Labor unions may exist in those states, but they are extremely limited. Unionization rates are well below 10% in almost all RTW states, which, again, is the entire point of RTW laws.

Sounds like the union isn't all it's cracked up to be then if nobody wants to join it...

[Novine]

"Sounds like the union isn't all it's cracked up to be then if nobody wants to join it..."

Is your goal to show your lack of knowledge on the widest range of topics possible? If so, you're well on your way to accomplishing that.

[Shollin]

Sounds like the union isn't all it's cracked up to be then if nobody wants to join it...

Why would they join the union when they can get the same pay and benefits that union workers get, while only a few people pay for the union? It decreases funding for the union and weakens the union.

[JVB]

Why would they join the union when they can get the same pay and benefits that union workers get, while only a few people pay for the union?

But I thought with strong unions come higher wages? If that were true, seems like all workers would want to join.

[Novine]

It is true. Have you missed all the bashing on "overpaid" union workers? Companies in RTW states are able to take advantage of anti-union sentiments to threaten workers directly or indirectly with a loss of their job if they organize. Why don't you go spend a couple of hours reading up on the history of union organizing in this country before you share any more ignorant comment. All your demonstrating is how little you know on the subject.

[skatedetroit]

Teachers top out at 60K to 80K a year [[depending on the district). They work 181 days a year. Those 181 days they work 8am to 3pm. If they have to put in a couple extra hours they talk themselves up to sainthood level for working an 8 hour day.

WOW........

As a teacher of several years, some of the generalizations and gross exaggerations in this thread have left me speechless and quite disheartened.

[JVB]

Why don't you go spend a couple of hours reading up on the history of union organizing in this country before you share any more ignorant comment. All your demonstrating is how little you know on the subject.

I worked with the UAW for years and saw the collective bargaining process up close. I also studied labor law for a time at Wayne State. Now am I allowed to have an opinion?