Michigan Gov. Rick Snyder says right-to-work issue is on the table

[bailey]

Snyder is the new Yall's Boy.

It's gonna be interesting to see how this changes the dynamics of the state going forward.

It's one thing to fuck with welfare recipients, public school children and cash strapped communities.

But he just struck a blow at people's livelihoods.

I think he really just set off a war his people aren't ready for. Michigan has always been bluer than Indiana.

Maybe I'm wrong and people will still vote these clowns in, but I don't think so.

Maybe maybe not. I think one thing to remember is that people in unions in this state are a shrinking minority of the working populace. Any "blow" being struck was at a sub segment of less than 20% of the whole. I'm not sure there isn't just a lot of light and no heat to this. I think the disaster that was Prop 2 should be a serious warning to the unions about what chances they have at the ballot box regarding recalls, referendums...etc.

It's a symbolic battle ground to be sure, but the heavy lifting on both sides is going to be from generally out of state special interest groups.... just like Wisconsin.

[Wingnatic]

He's comparing whats happened in Indiana [[another republican State ) My inlaws moved to Indiana over 20 years ago , they've always have trouble finding work and still do to this day . I remember just after Snyder took office someone asked him if were were interested in a 2nd term , his response was something like if he gets his agenda [[didn't mention what his agenda was) completed , he would not run again . I haven't seen him do anything yet that benefits Michiganders , cutting unemployment benefits from 26 weeks to 20 weeks in one of the worst States job wise , doing away with the helmet law , now the RTW , and currently working on making it harder for a woman to get an abortion .. what's next ?

[JVB]

...and currently working on making it harder for a woman to get an abortion .. what's next ?

I had a friend of mine get an infection and almost die after getting one a few years ago. From what I've read doesn't that bill just require abortion clinics to have to meet certain sanitary requirements like a regular medical clinic? I don't know if that makes it harder to get an abortion, but it definitely makes it safer which should be priority number one.

[Jimaz]

DetroitYES Home » Non Detroit Issues » Thom Hartmann » The American worker's life before unions

[Jimaz]

Michael Moore on the Ed Show, December 13th, 2012

"In the last few days I've spent a lot of time talking to friends and colleagues in Michigan, and we're going to put together our own search committee. We are going to recruit candidates who're going to win." -- Michael Moore

[Cincinnati_Kid]

He's comparing whats happened in Indiana [[another republican State ) My inlaws moved to Indiana over 20 years ago , they've always have trouble finding work and still do to this day . I remember just after Snyder took office someone asked him if were were interested in a 2nd term , his response was something like if he gets his agenda [[didn't mention what his agenda was) completed , he would not run again . I haven't seen him do anything yet that benefits Michiganders , cutting unemployment benefits from 26 weeks to 20 weeks in one of the worst States job wise , doing away with the helmet law , now the RTW , and currently working on making it harder for a woman to get an abortion .. what's next ?

You're exactly right. After he gets done _ucking this state up during his term in office, he will pull a John Engler and leave office for the private sector, just as "fat boy" did. I bet he has no intentions of running for a second term after he inflicts his damage.

[313WX]

Snyder is the new Yall's Boy.

It's gonna be interesting to see how this changes the dynamics of the state going forward.

It's one thing to fuck with welfare recipients, public school children and cash strapped communities.

But he just struck a blow at people's livelihoods.

I think he really just set off a war his people aren't ready for. Michigan has always been bluer than Indiana.

Maybe I'm wrong and people will still vote these clowns in, but I don't think so.

Michigan's a strange state politically.

Even in Detroit [[which is easily the most liberal part of the state), the peole are very socially conservative [[see the influences in Detroit's politics from the churches and the blue-collar folks in Macomb County voting for Reagan in the 1980s).

I think the only reason Michigan has been blue for a long time is because of the labor unions.

Even with the past two elections, despite going blue at the Federal Level, both houses in the legislature were solidly red and the Governor's Office is red.

[brotherzeus]

One question and one question only . . . how will this bill [[RTW) create more jobs in Michigan, Why would a corporation or business move to Michigan now, When only 17% of the workers are union [[per Gov. Snyder) and now after becoming a right to work State.


I do know and understand the biggest cost to employers is employees so is the reason employee cost. [[The possibility of paying people less). [[More profit)


The possibility and ability to Hire more part-time workers and cut full time when there is no union contact that says you can’t [[more profit)


The possibility of No pay increases Per Year or a Cost of living increase? When there is no union contact that says different [[More profit)


The possibility of No health insurance or employee’s pay more, no union contact to guild or control you [[more profit)


Or is it you don’t like unions, All I hear is this will create more jobs.? WHY, No one seems to ask Gov. Rick Snyder that question. Why would a business move to Michigan, now? .


Gov. Snyder you say this will free workers from a condition of employment, which is, join the union, or not work, when this was oked buy the workers by a vote, but I still can desire not to work there, but I have accepted the job based on the condition’s of employment.


But what I DO NOT LIKE, I have to wear a uniform as a condition of my employment, punch in and out at a certain time, shine my shoes, come to work on my own time for shift bids [[come to work twice no pay) and abide by other company polices and procedures as a condition’s of my employment to maintain my job, I DON’T UNDERSTAND.


But then again when I think deep about it I do.


HAVE A GRAND DAY.

[rb336]

Didn't a bunch of traditionally "red" districts on the west side of the state go blue this election season?

Michigan has often gone for so-called "liberal" Republicans [[Milliken & Romney, for example, both of whom would be considered very liberal by the current party)and voted against the reactionaries. The only exception I can think of is Jabba Engler. The last reactionary - DeVos - got his clock cleaned by a governor with a very low approval rating. Snyder won by claiming to not be an ideologue - which he later turned out to be. Michigan went Republican in the last state elections because the Dems were flat-footed here as they were nation-wide. The last election cycle was an anomaly.

[Cincinnati_Kid]

Well said, brotherzeus.

[coracle]

"But what I DO NOT LIKE, I have to wear a uniform as a condition of my employment, punch in and out at a certain time, shine my shoes, come to work on my own time for shift bids [[come to work twice no pay) and abide by other company polices and procedures as a condition’s of my employment to maintain my job, I DON’T UNDERSTAND."

I don't know what it is you DON'T UNDERSTAND; but if employers read this I'm confident they'll be lining up for the opportunity not to hire you. Your best bet is to start your own company and hire workers that don't want to conform either so you'll all get along.

[Whitehouse]

Everyone who feels that Unions are redundant now, have to look no further than Wall Mart. Wall Mart still is rabid anti union and keeps their workers on low payment en unpaid overtime. You need to remember that your hard earned paycheck is in danger if unions are forced out. You'll be dancing to your slave master, also called your employer.



Anyway, the Republican hijacking of the Michigan politics may turn out to be a paper victory since this whole law is unconstitutional.

Lansing – Less than 24 hours after Governor Snyder signed his damaging “Right to Work” legislation into law, analysis shows that the flawed legislation may not even have the result the Governor claimed it would, raising serious questions about whether the Republican leadership even read the language of the bills before voting it through and signing it into law.
“It's become increasingly clear that the Governor presented the legislature with bills written by out-of-state extremists who had no understanding of Michigan's constitution or how our laws apply to Michigan workers,” said Senate Democratic Leader Gretchen Whitmer. “This is what happens when the Governor does an 11th hour about face in a lame duck session showing utter contempt for our people by cutting out all public input, scrutiny and debate. That isn't leadership, it's epic incompetence .”

Reports today show that HB 4003, which the Governor said would provide “Right to Work” type policies for public employees in Michigan, could not be implemented as intended as the Michigan Constitution gives clear authority to the Civil Service Commission over conditions of employment for the state's workforce. Experts have suggested today only a vote of the Civil Service Commission could enact Right to Work policies for state workers.
“The public was not given an opportunity to read these bills, legislators were not given an opportunity to read these bills, and we now know that the Governor himself either didn't read or didn't understand these bills himself,” said Senator Bert Johnson [[D – Detroit). “This process has been a complete affront to democracy from the start and was nothing more than a political gift to the Koch Brothers and ALEC who bought and paid for this legislation.”
A series of questions have been raised in recent days over the legality of the “Right to Work” legislation as well as the process in which it passed. A lawsuit has already been filed against the Michigan House of Representatives for violating the Open Meetings Act as these bills were passed while the public was illegally locked out of the State Capitol and additional legal challenges are expected in the coming days.

From Crooks and Liars.

[Cincinnati_Kid]

"But what I DO NOT LIKE, I have to wear a uniform as a condition of my employment, punch in and out at a certain time, shine my shoes, come to work on my own time for shift bids [[come to work twice no pay) and abide by other company polices and procedures as a condition’s of my employment to maintain my job, I DON’T UNDERSTAND."

I don't know what it is you DON'T UNDERSTAND; but if employers read this I'm confident they'll be lining up for the opportunity not to hire you. Your best bet is to start your own company and hire workers that don't want to conform either so you'll all get along.

Right. Starting you own company is just so easy, like going to the store and buying a loaf of bread. Gimme a break......

[JVB]

Right. Starting you own company is just so easy, like going to the store and buying a loaf of bread. Gimme a break......

According to Obama it is. I hear other people build it for you.

[rb336]

According to Obama it is. I hear other people build it for you.

You also hear things out of context and ignore factual corrections

[Whitehouse]

According to Obama it is. I hear other people build it for you.

I don't want to hear anything from you concerning that quote until you learn the proper context of what Obama really said!

[Cincinnati_Kid]

According to Obama it is. I hear other people build it for you.

You need to quit hearing what you want to hear JVB.

[oladub]

I don't want to hear anything from you concerning that quote until you learn the proper context of what Obama really said!

Obama's cliche laden quote for the sheople:

“There are a lot of wealthy, successful Americans who agree with me — because they want to give something back. They know they didn’t — look, if you’ve been successful, you didn’t get there on your own. You didn’t get there on your own. I’m always struck by people who think, well, it must be because I was just so smart. There are a lot of smart people out there. It must be because I worked harder than everybody else. Let me tell you something — there are a whole bunch of hardworking people out there.

“If you were successful, somebody along the line gave you some help. There was a great teacher somewhere in your life. Somebody helped to create this unbelievable American system that we have that allowed you to thrive. Somebody invested in roads and bridges. If you’ve got a business — you didn’t build that. Somebody else made that happen. The Internet didn’t get invented on its own. Government research created the Internet so that all the companies could make money off the Internet. The point is, is that when we succeed, we succeed because of our individual initiative, but also because we do things together.”

Funny thing is that whether the teacher is great or not, some of his/her students wind up alcoholics on welfare and maybe one is Bill Gates. Then again, the teacher might have been a Catholic school teacher or a home schooling parent. If it was the same teacher, why did one student wind up on drugs and another win the Olympics? What Obama said was mind-numbing; trying to take credit for every success and absolve himself of every failure as usual. No one creates an internet company who has sloppy habits, is unimaginative, or lazy. The creator of the first wheel and discoverer of making fires couldn't have done so without a government program according to the Gospel of Obama.

[noise]

You also hear things out of context and ignore factual corrections

Holy cow, did JVB really post that? It's been amateur hour since he arrived.

[firstandten]

Funny thing is that whether the teacher is great or not, some of his/her students wind up alcoholics on welfare and maybe one is Bill Gates. Then again, the teacher might have been a Catholic school teacher or a home schooling parent. If it was the same teacher, why did one student wind up on drugs and another win the Olympics? What Obama said was mind-numbing; trying to take credit for every success and absolve himself of every failure as usual. No one creates an internet company who has sloppy habits, is unimaginative, or lazy. The creator of the first wheel and discoverer of making fires couldn't have done so without a government program according to the Gospel of Obama.

I see you don't understand the context of the quote either

[Cincinnati_Kid]

^^ There seems to be a lot of mis-informed people on here, including myself.

[oladub]

I see you don't understand the context of the quote either

The criticism of JVB's comment in post # 214 was that is was taken out of context. I submitted the context. The context was a muddled mass of cliches; of saying things that sound good but aren't very profound. Obama claimed credit for more or less getting out of Iraq although he kept the troops there as long as he could and lobbied to keep them there longer. When his 2009 stimulus fell far short of producing his administration's predicted results, it was blamed on not being large enough. It is not surprising then, in this context, that Obama tries to somehow credit Silicon Valley inventions to government employees but blames failures of kids going through the same schools and using those same government roads on his opposition. The private sector had to fodder those government employees to start with. If that wasn't the context of the criticism that Obama saying that 'other people built it for you', what was? All I'm seeing are hyped cliches.

[noise]

I see you don't understand the context of the quote either

I have certain posters on ignore, so I may be missing part of the conversation, but the point of President Obama's comment was summed up with this:

“The point is, is that when we succeed, we succeed because of
our individual initiative, but also because we do things together.”

[JVB]

I've heard all of the arguments before about what Obama "really" meant. Maybe that is what he really meant. Politicians get taken out of context all the time. But to say he was referring to infrastructure and roads and schools etc when he said "you didn't build that" is silly because if that's what he meant he would have said "you didn't build those". Plural, would refer to the work of others before, the infrastructure and all of the other things that exist that make most businesses possible, but he said "that", singular which is why it is understood that he was speaking about the business itself.

Besides, that was just a little jab at the comment, it's not even what really bothers me about Obama. I don't like the fact that he has a kill list of US citizens, and that he routinely murders innocent women and children with drone strikes. So his comments on business aren't really an issue with me.

[firstandten]

In the Obama quote the word "that" is taken out of context. What puts that quote into the context that Obama meant is the previous sentence. "Some body invested in roads and bridges. If you've got a business you didn't build that[[meaning roads and bridges). Somebody else made that happen". The broader meaning that some chose to ignore is that we are an interdependent society in which in some form or fashion the successes of most people are due in part to the infrastructure others put in place be it financing, physical infrastructure or the like in terms of business or even on a more personal level the love and support financially and otherwise of your parents or other support figures. Now does that guarantee you will be successful ? No of course not but without it your chances of success are close to zero. To nitpick the man on the use of the world " that" versus" those" smacks of people that are desperate to discredit the president on every little remark.