Michigan Gov. Rick Snyder says right-to-work issue is on the table

[ghettopalmetto]

I agree with that, and I'm not against the existence of unions. I just don't think workers in some professions should be forced to join. If you're a civil libertarian [[as I am too), then you should believe wholeheartedly in freedom of association.

The Taft-Hartley Act of 1947 prohibits closed shops. I don't know why this is so difficult for you to understand.

[JVB]

The Taft-Hartley Act of 1947 prohibits closed shops. I don't know why this is so difficult for you to understand.

Stop it you're making yourself look silly.

From Wikipedia: "A union shop is a form of a union security clause under which the employer agrees to hire either labor union members or nonmembers but all non-union employees must become union members within a specified period of time or lose their jobs."

That is a closed shop under a different name. I see you've never worked in manufacturing.

I won't even get into the idiotic practice by the unions of forcing companies to give overtime and certain jobs based on seniority rather than actual qualifications or skill. Then you wonder why we lost so much market share to countries like Japan over the years.

[noise]

I want to be a secretary but I don't want to answer phones.

I want to be an electrician but I don't want to do any wiring.

I want to be a bus driver but I don't want to drive buses.

I want to have a union job but I don't want to be in a union.

[Chinman]

please read this: http://www.wrongforeveryone.com/more...right-to-work/

[Chinman]

“In our glorious fight for civil rights, we must guard against being fooled by false slogans, such as ‘right to work.’ It is a law to rob us of our civil rights and job rights. Its purpose is to destroy labor unions and the freedom of collective bargaining by which unions have improved wages and working conditions of everyone…Wherever these laws have been passed, wages are lower, job opportunities are fewer and there are no civil rights. We do not intend to let them do this to us. We demand this fraud be stopped.” —Martin Luther King

[Honky Tonk]

please read this: http://www.wrongforeveryone.com/more...right-to-work/

None of those people in that flyer look too happy.

[Chinman]

It is essential that there should be organizations of labor. This is an era of organization. Capital organizes and therefore labor must organize. Theodore Roosevelt Source:Speech, Oct 14, 1912

[ghettopalmetto]

Funny enough, I was watching History Channel's "The Men Who Made America" series. In the 1900 election campaign, Teddy Roosevelt was hand-picked by John D. Rockefeller and Andrew Carnegie to run for Vice President. The thinking was that, with anti-labor President McKinley at the wheel, pro-labor Roosevelt would be placated in a powerless position.

It is essential that there should be organizations of labor. This is an era of organization. Capital organizes and therefore labor must organize. Theodore Roosevelt Source:Speech, Oct 14, 1912

[Wesley Mouch]

The Taft-Hartley Act of 1947 prohibits closed shops. I don't know why this is so difficult for you to understand.

So let's read from ever-accurate wikipedia to clarify things... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Closed_shop ...
<quote>The Taft-Hartley Act outlawed the closed shop in the United States in 1947, but permits the union shop, except in those states that have passed right-to-work laws, in which case even the union shop is illegal. An employer may not lawfully agree with a union to hire only union members; it may, on the other hand, agree to require employees to join the union or pay the equivalent of union dues to it after a set period of time. Similarly, while a union could require an employer that had agreed to a closed shop contract prior to 1947 to fire an employee who had been expelled from the union for any reason, it cannot demand that an employer fire an employee under a union shop contract for any reason other than failure to pay those dues that are uniformly required of all employees.</quote>
[[Emphasis mine.)
So as I understand this now, we have made it illegal for Unions to require compulsory membership as a condition of continued employment. Currently, management must fire anyone who doesn't pay their dues / join the union.

[313hero]

Ok I'm late. Didnt want to read through all of these postings so if I repeat something someone else said O Well.

I personally dont understand the big deal about this RTW stuff. It seems to me that it gives you more power over what you choose to belong to or not. The Unions will still exist, unless they dont proove to their member they're worth it. Sounds like putting more fire under their buts. I do understand that Unions support elections and endorse many democrats. I do understand their power, but I also understand at times they abuse that power. Its been alot of rhetoric on both sides all over the place. I was listening to the radio this morning and the guy was talking about the RTW commercials "lying" saying you dont have to join a union if you are hired by a company that has one. Then in the next sentence he said you just have to pay the equivilant amount as the union members for the "barganing" whatever. I was lmao. WTF did he just say? I asked myself. So its a lie that you have to join but you still have to pay. So if you still have to pay you should join the union duh.

Now I've seen the "statistics" showing that the States with RTW ppl make less etc. Well why did all the jobs go down south then? My brother moved from here cause he couldnt find work and moved to a RTW State. He got a job within 2 weeks and been working there for almost 10 years now. They have random drug tests etc. He gets sick time, vacation time, raises, etc. Everything the union workers here get he gets. the only difference is he cant fail a drug test, he cant come to work drunk, and he must follow the rules. Seems fair enough to me. So Its real hard for me to understand the big deal. Help me out proponents. Cause my circle of friends have disowned me for speaking down on the unions. I'm just keeping it real. If this will help bring more jobs so be it. My Opinion

[ghettopalmetto]

Ok I'm late. Didnt want to read through all of these postings so if I repeat something someone else said O Well.

Me personally dont understand the big deal about this RTW stuff. It seems to me that it gives you more power over what you choose to belong to or not. The Unions will still exist, unless they dont proove to their member they're worth it. Sounds like putting more fire under their buts. I do understand that Unions support elections and endorse many democrats. I do understand their power, but I also understand at times they abuse that power. Its been alot of rhetoric on both sides all over the place. I was listening to the radio this morning and the guy was talking about the RTW commercials "lying" saying you dont have to join a union if you are hired by a company that has one. Then in the next sentence he said you just have to pay the equivilant amount as the union members for the "barganing" whatever. I was lmao. WTF did he just say? I asked myself. So its a lie that you have to join but you still have to pay. So if you still have to pay you should join the union duh.

Do you work for free?

Well neither do the union representatives who negotiate contracts on behalf of both union AND nonunion employees.

The whole point of Right-to-Work laws is to allow free riders and remove any incentives to join a union. The hope is that union members, knowing they will still be represented by the union, will quit their memberships and stop paying dues. The loss of dues would thus weaken the unions.

[coracle]

This is that particular poster's MO. He's a "new" member with a medieval [[racist, whites-only, "me me me") stance. No reason to pay much attention.

You make a lot of "noise" noise, but you never say anything.

[Maof]

[313hero]

Do you work for free?

Well neither do the union representatives who negotiate contracts on behalf of both union AND nonunion employees.

??????????????????? If the union workers want it, it will still be there right? if they want to pay, they will still pay right? way to show them is to make the unions stronger right?

[ghettopalmetto]

??????????????????? If the union workers want it, it will still be there right? if they want to pay, they will still pay right? way to show is to make the unions stronger right?

Why would they pay dues if they can get union representation at no cost?

Welcome to the Plantation, Michigan!

[oladub]

If unions have been effectively placated, then why is the Michigan GOP so threatened by them? Maybe it's payback time.

People aren't quitting unions because of immigrant labor. The union ranks are shrinking due to a long-term overall decline of manufacturing employment, the growth of anti-union laws on the state level, and Robber Baron employers like Walmart who feed off the desperation of their employees.

I think some of you folks might want to re-read "The Jungle" by Upton Sinclair.

Who said unions were placated? I raised the issue that they have less traction today because of the lack of demand for US workers. I can't speak for the Michigan GOP.

People aren't quitting unions because of illegal labor. You completely missed my point. Unions are dying, in part, because illegal labor is tolerated. Meat packing plants used to be union. The packers brought in cheap, often illegal, laborers and used them to replace union workers. Union construction workers are now being replaced in many parts of the country with foreigners who will often work for half the wages of union workers. That apparently is de facto federal government policy. Walmart could not exist union free if there was a demand for US workers. For there to be a demand, there has to be a shortage. For there to be a shortage, laws must be changed or enforced that presently allow our jobs to go abroad while competition is brought in for remaining jobs.

I'm all for unions but both parties have created a harsh environment for unions.

[bailey]

Why would they pay dues if they can get union representation at no cost?

Welcome to the Plantation, Michigan!

So, basically what this line of logic is saying is that most people in Union jobs now are at their core, incredibly disloyal and will immediately stop paying dues because they'd prefer to mooch off the dues paying members. Since these d-bags are all about 2 seconds from being free riding mooches, IT MUST NOT BE ALLOWED.

Pretty despicable opinion of union rank and file....although, judging by the oft repeated laments about "free -riders!" , it is apparently the opinion shared by the union leaders and much of the members themselves.

[highjinx2]

Take it from one who lived in a state that passed the Right To Work Bill into law.
I was making $15 per hour at a non union shop; because we had to compete with union shops the pay was good...they needed to keep qualified persons around.
Once the bill passed, I was told that the place was downsizing, if I wanted to stay I would have to take a pay cut to minimum wage and I would loose my benefits.
I saluted them with my middle finger salute and got the heck out of that state and now live in a state without such a law.
People, if you make under $250,000 dollars a year, this law will effect you bottom line in a very short time. If you feel you are getting paid peanuts, believe me you will be getting paid peanut shells.
This is another step in the agenda of the right to make America into [[2) classes of people; the rich and the poor, the servants [poor] and the masters [the rich].
Wake up people!!!
And hear the song, listen carefully and you'll hear the sour notes it contains.
Glad I no longer live in Michigan, was planning to move back but no frigging way.

[President Sekou]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=u_F3oev06i0

Keep it classy unions!

[ghettopalmetto]

If what the unions have to offer is worth it then they will attract plenty of members. RTW passed in Indiana recently and they've gained a shit ton of new jobs [[more than any other state) and wages have not gone down. Union membership also has not gone down.

Which companies have produced jobs in Indiana since March 15 as a specific result of Right-to-Work?

All I hear about is Manitowoc closing their Indiana plant and moving the jobs to Cleveland, and Whirlpool closing their Indiana plant and moving the jobs to Benton Harbor. But I could be mistaken, because I read the news.

[Pam]

Signed now.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/11/rick-snyder-right-to-work_n_2280050.html

I saw a sign in one of the crowd pics that said "Kick the Nerd to the Curb."

Options for appeal:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/1...n_2277178.html

[rb336]

But I could be mistaken, because I read the news.

obviously your facts don't fit the dogma, so they are irrelevant.

[JVB]

Which companies have produced jobs in Indiana since March 15 as a specific result of Right-to-Work?

All I hear about is Manitowoc closing their Indiana plant and moving the jobs to Cleveland, and Whirlpool closing their Indiana plant and moving the jobs to Benton Harbor. But I could be mistaken, because I read the news.

READ THE NEWS.

LAFAYETTE, Ind. [[WLFI) - According to the Indiana Economic Development Corporation , since Indiana passed Right-to-Work legislation, 46 companies have told the group that right-to-work will factor into decision-making when deciding where to locate projects. 39 projects have progressed to the pipeline stage, and 12 companies have accepted an offer from the IEDC, bringing a projected 900 new jobs to Indiana.
The organization said five companies have said publicly that Right-to-Work was a factor in deciding where to do business.
The companies listed were Busche , bringing 100 new jobs to Albion; Android Industries , adding 66 new jobs to Fort Wayne; Steel Dynamics, Inc. , which plans to create about 50 new jobs in Pittsboro; SealCorpUSA , slated to create up to 35 new jobs in Evansville; and Whayne Supply , which expects to bring about 50 new jobs to Evansville.
"I think that's part of the reason that Indiana led the nation in job growth in April," Hershman said. "One of every eight jobs created nationally was created in Indiana. We're sixth best in the country this year."

By the way, union membership has not decreased in Indiana, and neither have wages. I'm sorry if that doesn't fit your narrative.

[Jimaz]

Thom interviews James Hoffa at
DetroitYES Home » Non Detroit Issues » Thom Hartmann » #1509.

[ghettopalmetto]

READ THE NEWS.

By the way, union membership has not decreased in Indiana, and neither have wages. I'm sorry if that doesn't fit your narrative.

We can always trust a state senator to give an objective economic analysis, can't we?

Even if the esteemed senator is correct, that's a whopping 900 jobs. Whirlpool was 600 jobs in Evansville. Manitowoc was another 200. And those 800 jobs went to places with skilled union labor. Diamond Foods sent 100 Indiana jobs to California. Gunite moved 125 jobs from Elkhart to Illinois. Mind you--Illinois, Ohio, and Michigan ALL have lower unemployment than Indiana.

Learn the difference between "correlation" and "causation", and get back to us once there's enough data to establish a trend.