Pistons dwindling attendance renews calls for team to move downtown.

**Ray1936** · November-30-12, 06:59 PM

Dumb game. Dr. Naismith laid an egg in my opinion.

**Gistok** · November-30-12, 07:08 PM

Originally Posted by Ray1936

Dumb game. Dr. Naismith laid an egg in my opinion.

Why's that Ray? I'm surprised you think that... at your age one would think you could relate to all that "dribbling".... lol... j/k

**poobert** · November-30-12, 10:57 PM

Originally Posted by jtf1972

I have no desire to get in my car and drive 45 minutes to see a basketball game. The ticket cost is actually minor compared to gas & parking. It's not even a team that seems to have anything to do with Detroit other than sharing a name.

Sharing a name? To borrow from his lordship L. Brooks Patterson, I'd say poaching a name.

Geographic hair-splitting notwithstanding, Auburn Hills is about as entertaining as a root canal. For the average person - though you now have to be an above average person to afford to go to most sporting events a few times per year - a sporting event is a day of entertainment. Pre-gaming, bars, tailgating, celebrating [[or mourning) afterwards. Downtown Detroit offers that and Auburn Hills emphatically does not, no matter how you feel about the two.

I think we have to go mostly anecdotal on this one. Anyway, I recently bought Lions tickets for someone as a gift with the intention of going with them. I hate football but love this person and merry-making in general so I was happy to come along. Of course being downtown and thus the game ended up being great fun. I would not have gone along if it meant sitting in a parking lot in Auburn fucking Hills, I can tell you that right now.

Of course I do doubt that the location plays too seriously into the future of the Auburn Hills Pistons.

**gthomas** · November-30-12, 11:27 PM

Originally Posted by poobert

Sharing a name? To borrow from his lordship L. Brooks Patterson, I'd say poaching a name.

Geographic hair-splitting notwithstanding, Auburn Hills is about as entertaining as a root canal. For the average person - though you now have to be an above average person to afford to go to most sporting events a few times per year - a sporting event is a day of entertainment. Pre-gaming, bars, tailgating, celebrating [[or mourning) afterwards. Downtown Detroit offers that and Auburn Hills emphatically does not, no matter how you feel about the two.

I think we have to go mostly anecdotal on this one. Anyway, I recently bought Lions tickets for someone as a gift with the intention of going with them. I hate football but love this person and merry-making in general so I was happy to come along. Of course being downtown and thus the game ended up being great fun. I would not have gone along if it meant sitting in a parking lot in Auburn fucking Hills, I can tell you that right now.

Of course I do doubt that the location plays too seriously into the future of the Auburn Hills Pistons.

LOL, I agree...nice story. Piston belongs Downtown, END OF STORY! I don't care how nice the Palace is, it will be even nicer Downtown or not better hands down. It wont be a empty seat if they come Downtown, winning or losing. People will go to every game cause there is more synergy and excitement Downtown offer before and after the game, than Auburn Hill, PERIOD. Which is $$$$$$$

**CLAUDE G** · December-01-12, 12:29 AM

First of all this is the "Detroit" Pistons, and NOT the Auburn Hills Pistons. We really need to move this team back to downtown Detroit.

Second of all the Palace Sucks. It takes me 45 minutes just to get there, and then when you think your there, your in bumper to bumper traffic on I-75 for another 15-20 minutes just to get in the place to park.

An hour to get there and an hour to get back is not worth it, when I can go to Ford Field, or Comerica Park and be on the freeway and home within 15 after I walk out of the place.

Let not forget that Bill Davidsons wife played a big hand in running the place into the ground after her huspand passed away

**gthomas** · December-01-12, 01:11 AM

How exciting is this!!!

**gthomas** · December-01-12, 01:43 AM

I love this setting better!

More people visiting hundred's of restaurants, bars, now and soon to be more retail shopping...casinos, riverfront...I can go on. It's just right, not only for Detroit but the whole region...economically.

**401don** · December-01-12, 09:21 AM

It's probably not feasible but I wonder if a case could be made for a partnership between Ilitch and Gores. They share ownership of the two arenas with both teams playing downtown in the new arena. They each keep their revenue from their teams games. Ilitch's Olympia Entertainment books concerts for both venues, saving duplication and competition. They split all concert revenues and other event revenues. There could be some synergy here. This would probably only have a chance if Pistons continue to draw poorly after their record improves and Ilitch can't get financing to go it alone downtown.

**Bad Brains** · December-01-12, 09:50 AM

Originally Posted by gthomas

LOL, I agree...nice story. Piston belongs Downtown, END OF STORY! I don't care how nice the Palace is, it will be even nicer Downtown or not better hands down.

I kind of have to disagree. There seems to be a lack of creativity/originality in modern corporate cookie-cutter sporting venues. Looking at how bad of a job they did with Comerica Park, I dread to see how mediocre a new Pistons or Red Wings home would be [[On the other hand, you can't get much worse than the Joe Louis Arena)

GUSHI · December-01-12, 10:53 AM

The product is the problem not the location, also the Palace is one of the busiest concert venues in America, why would Gore. Build another venue to compete w the Palace, and oh ya it's paid for, and still very nice.

**Bham1982** · December-01-12, 10:55 AM

Originally Posted by gthomas

I
More people visiting hundred's of restaurants, bars, now and soon to be more retail shopping...casinos, riverfront...I can go on. It's just right, not only for Detroit but the whole region...economically.

Most Pistons and Red Wings games are on weeknights. People generally aren't going to visit the DIA, stop by the casinos, or stroll the riverfront in conjunction with a game.

There's likely a significant positive effect for bars and casual restaurants in the immediate vicinity, especially on weekends, but that's about it. There's tons of scholarship on the economic effects of sports venues, and the benefits are very, very limited and basically just redistributed from other economic activity [[so, for example, a dollar spent on the Tigers is a dollar not spent on another leisure activity, such as restaurants or shopping).

**corktownyuppie** · December-01-12, 11:16 AM

Originally Posted by Bham1982

Most Pistons and Red Wings games are on weeknights. People generally aren't going to visit the DIA, stop by the casinos, or stroll the riverfront in conjunction with a game.

There's likely a significant positive effect for bars and casual restaurants in the immediate vicinity, especially on weekends, but that's about it. There's tons of scholarship on the economic effects of sports venues, and the benefits are very, very limited and basically just redistributed from other economic activity [[so, for example, a dollar spent on the Tigers is a dollar not spent on another leisure activity, such as restaurants or shopping).

I don't doubt the economic analysis you refer to. And from a zero-sum perspective of the Metro Detroit region, I presume it to be accurate. From another perspective, it intuitively seems to be that having a large entertainment/recreational district is going to be more popular [[both for people inside the region as well as drawing from outside Metro Detroit or the State of Michigan).

20 restaurants with a 10-minute drive in between each one seems to be inferior to having 20 restaurants all on one strip. Are you saying that you don't believe there to be an economic advantage to creating a critical mass?

**Danny** · December-01-12, 01:20 PM

Since 1989 The Pistons move from the Silverdome to the Palace. It's a arena with no public transportation other than public shuttles, filled with mile around parking lots and its away from vibrant entertianment venues of Downtown Detroit. I don't like the plan, but its Mr. Bill Davidson's way to keep his team near Detroit without moving to someplace esle. Having a new stadium in Downtown Detroit for the Pistons will have to wait in the next 25 to 75 years. First Detroit has to deal with providing the Red Wings their new location for a stadium. Just like the Tigers and Lions teams when they recieve their stadiums; their will be other bureaucratic process that have to be taking care of first. This is no public demand for a new team stadiums in Downtown Detroit. It is mostly a corporate owner manner.

**gthomas** · December-01-12, 01:29 PM

Originally Posted by Bad Brains

I kind of have to disagree. There seems to be a lack of creativity/originality in modern corporate cookie-cutter sporting venues. Looking at how bad of a job they did with Comerica Park, I dread to see how mediocre a new Pistons or Red Wings home would be [[On the other hand, you can't get much worse than the Joe Louis Arena)

What's mediocre about this, same architect is designing our new arena also.

http://hksinc.com/#/sports/experienc...allery=34&id=7

**ThisIsForTheHeart** · December-01-12, 02:03 PM

I went to my first pistons game this year. I was surprised how crappy the palace was. The lobby was nice, but the seats where small, No cup holders and the video screen is ancient looking. Not to mention could not find any great places to eat that is close by [[Walking distance.) Had to drive around in the horrible rush hour traffic just to eat.

**jtf1972** · December-01-12, 02:31 PM

Originally Posted by gthomas

How exciting is this!!!

It's like a beautiful, beautiful strip mall!

The Detroit Pistons of Auburn Hills, Michigan

**Gistok** · December-01-12, 04:51 PM

Originally Posted by Bham1982

Most Pistons and Red Wings games are on weeknights. People generally aren't going to visit the DIA, stop by the casinos, or stroll the riverfront in conjunction with a game.

Obviously no one CAN go to the DIA, nor decide to go to the riverfront on weeknights... but the Casinos do get considerable spillover after hockey, baseball or football games. A friend who works at MotorCity often tells me... "busy night last night after the game ended"....

**Eric_c** · December-01-12, 05:18 PM

Could the Palace afford to operate without the Pistons? If the Wings and Pistons built a split arena Downtown, could the Palace be a profitable venture in and of itself for the owner? If he wanted exclusively to concentrate on basketball, could would it make any sense to sell the Palace to another firm, take that capital and invest it back into the team? Would he sell more tickets Downtown?

**rb336** · December-01-12, 05:26 PM

Originally Posted by GUSHI

The product is the problem not the location, also the Palace is one of the busiest concert venues in America, why would Gore. Build another venue to compete w the Palace, and oh ya it's paid for, and still very nice.

I've never cared much for the palace. The hallways are so damn narrow, giant pinch-points. it might have been state of the art 20 years ago, but that is debatable. acoustically not bad for an arena. The thing is, when the new red wings arena opens, hopefully it will be state of the art, and will likely out-compete the palace as venue of choice for concerts. Gore can either lose out on that or go halfsies on it.

**noggin** · December-01-12, 06:14 PM

Originally Posted by jtf1972

It's like a beautiful, beautiful strip mall!

The Detroit Pistons of Auburn Hills, Michigan

Can tailgate at the storage lockers. What atmosphere.

**gthomas** · December-01-12, 08:28 PM

Originally Posted by corktownyuppie

I don't doubt the economic analysis you refer to. And from a zero-sum perspective of the Metro Detroit region, I presume it to be accurate. From another perspective, it intuitively seems to be that having a large entertainment/recreational district is going to be more popular [[both for people inside the region as well as drawing from outside Metro Detroit or the State of Michigan).

20 restaurants with a 10-minute drive in between each one seems to be inferior to having 20 restaurants all on one strip. Are you saying that you don't believe there to be an economic advantage to creating a critical mass?

They will never understand..great point.

Shollin · December-01-12, 09:10 PM

Originally Posted by rb336

I've never cared much for the palace. The hallways are so damn narrow, giant pinch-points. it might have been state of the art 20 years ago, but that is debatable. acoustically not bad for an arena. The thing is, when the new red wings arena opens, hopefully it will be state of the art, and will likely out-compete the palace as venue of choice for concerts. Gore can either lose out on that or go halfsies on it.

Debatable? It was state of the art. It is the arena that set the trend for other arenas in the NBA and caused an arena boom much like Camden Yards did for baseball.

I love how this forum can put down the suburbs but will jump on people who talk negative about Detroit. Maybe people don't want to get carjacked driving to the game or have bums accost them before and after games. The location of the Palace is not ideal, but they don't draw fans because the team is bad. Just a few years ago when they were good they led the NBA in attendance for something like 5 years in a row and had the longest sellout streak in the NBA. Before 2006 the Tigers struggled to draw fans. The Lions used to be bottom of the league in attendance. The Red Wings even struggled to sell playoff tickets at one point. People don't pay to see lousy teams. It's pretty simple. I don't doubt if they build a new arena attendance will spike. People will go down there to see the new arena much like they did Comerica in 2000 but if the team isn't winning, they'll quit going, much like what happened with the Tigers from 2003-2005.

**gthomas** · December-01-12, 09:17 PM

Originally Posted by rb336

I've never cared much for the palace. The hallways are so damn narrow, giant pinch-points. it might have been state of the art 20 years ago, but that is debatable. acoustically not bad for an arena. The thing is, when the new red wings arena opens, hopefully it will be state of the art, and will likely out-compete the palace as venue of choice for concerts. Gore can either lose out on that or go halfsies on it.

It will be state of the art, HKS architects has to continue making a brand..they have their names to protect. Also, he added a second company who specialize in urban design to work with HKS. We won't just have a arena, it will actually be "Hockey Town"..blocks of entertainment, restaurants and bars. Patiently waiting to see the renderings..

Shollin · December-01-12, 09:22 PM

Am I missing something but why do people think an arena is going up? I know an architect was contracted, but it seems far off. Lets also be honest, Mike Illitch isn't long for this world and seems to be spending more time on winning a World Series. I don't know if the Illitch children will be as willing to build a new arena. I honestly don't think Mike is going to live long enough to see a new arena completed and Detroit sure as hell isn't going to build it. Perhaps Dan Gilbert could buy the Tigers and Red Wings?

**Bad Brains** · December-01-12, 10:25 PM

Originally Posted by gthomas

What's mediocre about this, same architect is designing our new arena also.

http://hksinc.com/#/sports/experienc...allery=34&id=7

Ehh, nothing on the website really does anything for me. I'm really hoping for a retro "old school barn" type of design if the Wings ever get a new place. I like overhangs and nooks and crannies of the sorts, bring the people closer to the action. Bring back home-ice advantage, as Mickey Redman always says.

One of the best games I ever seen was sitting in one of the upper balconies at the Melon Arena in Pittsburgh before it closed a couple seasons back. I was literally looking straight down onto the ice. [[People always told me the old Olympia was like that). I'm kind of surprised they moved to a new arena that's sadly bland and exactly like every other modern arena. Melon was awesome.