"Frank Rizzo"

[Detroitnerd]

Your kindness is acknowledged...the basis of my request is not a reflection of your intentions but rather its relevance to the original question. Certainly, I have my preference on moving this portion of the conversation but I will leave it to the moderators to decide. The fact that the last 10+ posts no longer refer to young people or moving downtown is at the heart of my position on this.

And yet, I do think it is relevant -- and encouraging. This is the sort of news that flies directly in the face of the old "accepted wisdom" about Detroit. I think it's proof that the old generation of Frank Rizzos is finally dying off. These young people moving into the city are likely not doing it without the support -- emotional or financial -- of their parents. I think that helps show what great strides we've made in just a decade. I remember all too well the old guard parents you had to lie to when you even went into the city [["We're going to the drive-in!" was a popular one.) Young people generally don't do what their parents forbid, so I see a correlation must be taking place. Heck, the other month I had a parent proudly tell me his daughter was moving downtown. It gives me hope.

[MidTownMs]

I just think generalizations are generally a bad idea, and racial generalizations are particularly counterproductive. I don't mean to discount your opinion of those types of people, but I've just always found it better to judge people individually rather than using their skin color or where they live to make assumptions about them.



On the contrary, I would love to hear an argument that challenges my viewpoint. I think people should be judged individually, not according to their skin color or where they live [[or don't want to live, for that matter). If you have a persuasive argument as to why I shouldn't do that, I'd love to hear it. I'm always willing to learn!

No one should be judged individually or collectively!!!

[corktownyuppie]

And yet, I do think it is relevant -- and encouraging. This is the sort of news that flies directly in the face of the old "accepted wisdom" about Detroit. I think it's proof that the old generation of Frank Rizzos is finally dying off. These young people moving into the city are likely not doing it without the support -- emotional or financial -- of their parents. I think that helps show what great strides we've made in just a decade. I remember all too well the old guard parents you had to lie to when you even went into the city [["We're going to the drive-in!" was a popular one.) Young people generally don't do what their parents forbid, so I see a correlation must be taking place. Heck, the other month I had a parent proudly tell me his daughter was moving downtown. It gives me hope.

I'll let the mods make the final call on moving the conversation, but I did want to respond to this. A lot of the young people moving into the city are doing with emotional and financial support. I'm young enough that I don't remember or know the "old guard" that you speak of...or perhaps I "self-selected" out of those social circles. Hell, I'm not white myself. I'm from Detroit. And I went to a high school that attracted suburbanites into the city, so I'm not accustomed to the vitriol of which you speak.

That said, I will say that even with the emotional and financial support of their parents, that's not to say that they are without reservation. Of course they are concerned about crime and safety. If their kids are purchasing property, they are curious how property valuations can work when they were taught that public schooling systems were crucial to those questions. But it's not a hostile reservation, it's a skeptical curiosity. And I think that's great, too.
The hope you feel is not a blind hope, for sure. These "haters" that are out there are dead, dying, or in the sunsets of their careers.

[DetroitPlanner]

The "Frank Rizzo" moniker, as we use it here, does not refer to the mayor of Philadelphia. I should know. I coined it.

You coined Frank Rizzo? That is not a name one would pull out of their butt!
Admit it you used the name with no idea who he was. He was mayor of the most comparable city in America to Detroit. He was Philly's Coleman Young.

[Zacha341]

How'd you get all of that out of JVB question...? Ummm, er, uh - never mind...

Well, how convenient. You've found a tool you can use to disregard an idea. Sort of like a blinder. Very well, then. I hope it serves you well and helps you to feel somehow superior.

You know what? Frank Rizzos are extremely unwilling to look at their own viewpoints and examine them. You might just be a Rizzo after all.

[Zacha341]

Hello Strommy... Looks like it's gonna be a long night. Perhaps I better put up a Netflix movie on a side window of my screen, pour a glass of wine and come back as things ebb and flow...... Z-341

Frank Rizzo is a legendary blowhard created by our own Detroitnerd. I swear, I am crying laughing everytime Frank makes an appearance. Thanks, Nerd, you made my day! Stromberg2

[Honky Tonk]

How'd you get all of that out of JVB question...? Ummm, no never mind...

QUIET! The wizard is speaking.......

[canuck]

Frank Rizzo is a pal of mine, doan make no fun of him awrighd, likewise, the other Frank Rizzo acrorss duh street ferm him is also a standup guy so lay orff will ya!?

How come I doan hear ya make fun a chinese people for one thing huh? They's just like your suburban Rizzo type, they're all Charlie Chans or something to that effect.

How about your black inner city guys, there's a whole busload of Jeffersons and Washingtons in there, it's easy enough to get them confused... lol.

[Zacha341]

Who dat be?

QUIET! The wizard is speaking.......

[Zozo]

Trying to insinuate that white people are racist because they don't want to move into Detroit because of the terrible crime and schools is flat out bullshit. This is the type of attitude that is keeping Detroit from fixing itself from the inside out. Throw grapes much?

[DetroitPlanner]

Trying to insinuate that white people are racist because they don't want to move into Detroit because of the terrible crime and schools is flat out bullshit. This is the type of attitude that is keeping Detroit from fixing itself from the inside out. Throw grapes much?

There are a lot of black people I know who won't live in Detroit either. I guess they are racist too based on that statement.

[Jimaz]

The Jerky Boys

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[313WX]

There are a lot of black people I know who won't live in Detroit either. I guess they are racist too based on that statement.

Even well-to-do black people don't want to live in or be associated with Detroit.

There's a reason Atlanta's considered the black capital of America and not Detroit.

[GUSHI]

Why make an excuse for him, he probaly just as racists as Frank Rizzo.

Meds are off, let it go.

[brizee]

Is Mike Valenti a Frank Rizzo?

Sometimes he's entertaining.

But his veiled racist, smartest guy in the room bullshit gets kind of old.

[Bad Brains]

I figured Rizzo was a top guy in the Detroit area mob, like Tocco or Giacalone.

[coracle]

Calved off from another thread. Carry on...

B-b-b-b-but, young people don't want to move downtown! There's all that crime! And all those black people! Maybe a few crazy young folks don't mind moving down into the ghetto, but most young people want what their parents want: Ever larger houses, more driving every day, getting out of the cubicle at 5 p.m. and hitting Applebee's or TGIF, maybe doing some shopping out on glorious Hall Road, or perhaps just taking some pizza home to the cul de sac. Why would young people wanna go down there with all those blacks and crime? You guys are really desperate when you resort to telling lies like this. Young people will always want to live in the suburbs, and that is the way it always will be. Wishing for it and lying about it won't make it happen.

Sincerely,

Frank Rizzo

"Calved off from another thread. Carry on..." the opening gambit to re-introduce your trumped-up prejudicial character Frank Rizzo is interesting Detroitnerd;- passing him through a cow.
I think the best solution to proving Frank is so wrong is to show it with deeds rather than sneers. There are a lot of Franks in the Suburbs just as there's a lot of Detroitnerds in the D. We have to find common ground.

[leapfrog]

"Calved off from another thread. Carry on..." the opening gambit to re-introduce your trumped-up prejudicial character Frank Rizzo is interesting Detroitnerd; how did you in fact manage to pass him through a cow?
I think the best solution to proving Frank is so wrong is to show him wrong with deeds rather than sneers. There are a lot of Franks in the Suburbs just as there's a lot of Detroitnerds in the D. We have to find common ground.

I seldom agree with your posts, Coracle but this one is dead spot on! See, common ground IS possible

[coracle]

I seldom agree with your posts, Coracle but this one is dead spot on! See, common ground IS possible

Thank you leapfrog for the "compliment" - I think!

[Scottathew]

Interesting thoughts here.

Subtle and veiled racism is most certainly alive in the suburbs. A lot of my white, older neighbors make quiet comments to me about how the neighborhood is less white than it was before.

Someone in my family dated a few black people, and there are people within my family that spoke with outrage that this was happening.

I know a lot of people in school districts like Madison Heights and Clawson that have seen a large influx of black students, both through schools-of-choice and through black families moving into the community, and some of the folks that live there don't like that their children are going to school with kids that "don't belong".

At the same time, I see things that give me hope. My kids go to school\daycare in downtown Detroit, where their friends are a diverse group of kids. My kids won't grow up going to an all-white school in an all-white community like I did, like my parents did. My kids won't be taught racism and veiled racism, they'll be taught to reject it.

I see the same things happening on my street in the south end of Warren. Over the past 6 years many black and Bengali families have moved in. The kids in the neighborhood are not segregated. They play together and don't care if their friend is black, muslim, or if their parents speak English or not.

I agree that there are probably a lot of Frank Rizzo's out there, however, there's also a lot of folks out there that don't think that way. Folks that are raising their children to be different than the way that their parents raised them.

Racism is fading, it will still take a long time, perhaps generations to get to where we want to see it, but things are moving in the right direction.

[gazhekwe]

I am glad to have "Frank Rizzo" explained. I was thinking it was the former Mayor of Philadelphia as well. I am glad to have a portmanteau to slip in all those code words that have been used to describe the schools and neighborhoods since I arrived in Detroit in the mid-60s. It was sure easy to pick up and those "in on it" knew exactly what it meant when they heard someone say "the schools are going down." That is a very effective blockbusting tactic, as no parent wants to have their children in a school that is perceived to be inferior by their peers.

So, back on subject, a lot of the young people who are discussing moving downtown or midtown have asked about the schools. It does seem to be a trigger factor in choosing a place to live.

[Honky Tonk]

You know what they say "Money Talks, BS walks"...

http://www.downtowndetroit.org/why-d...ntown-program/

http://www.movetodetroit.org/2011/07...near-downtown/

[iheartthed]

People might better understand who "Frank Rizzo" is if we started calling him "Archie Bunker" instead.

I was just thinking that white suburbanites oblivion to how racism has helped destroy Detroit is kinda like black urbanites denial of how corruption has also helped destroy Detroit.

[corktownyuppie]

I was just thinking that white suburbanites oblivion to how racism has helped destroy Detroit is kinda like black urbanites denial of how corruption has also helped destroy Detroit.

Well put. One side says, "You're corrupt, so that justifies my racism." The other side says, "You're racist, so that justifies my corruption."

It's all so stupid.

[Bham1982]

My kids won't grow up going to an all-white school in an all-white community like I did, like my parents did. My kids won't be taught racism and veiled racism, they'll be taught to reject it.

Generally speaking, suburban schools are far more diverse than Detroit schools. Districts like Troy or West Bloomfield are basically mini-United Nations, while most Detroit schools are virtually 100% black, or, in SW, 100% Mexican.

I don't know why attending schools in Detroit would make a child more or less racist, but the most diverse schools are pretty much all in the suburbs.

I think the only real "all white" schools are way the heck out, in Livingston County, out in Romeo, Oxford, and the like. Even hoity-toity places like Bloomfield Schools are 20% black, 20% Asian, etc.