Proposal 1 Fails. What Now?

**michimoby** · November-07-12, 05:39 AM

To say I'm disappointed is a gross understatement, but it's time to move forward and understand the ramifications behind PA 4's repeal. The critical questions on my mind at the moment:

- With legal control of DPS' academic house and oversight of teachers' contracts back in the hands of the school board, what pragmatic efforts will be undertaken in order to improve the system's current deplorable state?

- Furthermore, what happens to the EAA?

- What possible recourse, other than bankruptcy, does Detroit now have in order to get its fiscal house in order? Since repealing PA 4 effectively invalidates the consent agreement, what's the next rational step?

Discussing the merits or drawbacks of Proposal 1 is a moot point now; given that this board samples from a refreshingly broad base of Detroiters, I'm curious to hear your thoughts and see what sorts of perspectives we all have regarding next steps.

**Eber Brock Ward** · November-07-12, 06:08 AM

Vent: I just woke up and saw the results and am really concerned that I moved here.

Deep breath.

Okay, just have to hope for one or all of three things:
1- Legislature passes new EM law. Seems quite difficult to pass in the face of the direct democratic result weve just seen.
2- Muni bankruptcy. Not unlikely before the next mayoral/cc elections. Theres hope here, tho. A federal BK judge may actually be better than an EM.
3- Cc by district. Not much hope this helps, to be honest. Scarily enough, we may actually have 6-7 terrible cc members rather than 4-5 after districting.

Im going to have to read over the consent agmt. I hope to god it wasnt conditioned on the existence of PA 4.

Oy vey.

**Vic01** · November-07-12, 06:18 AM

here's your answer -

http://www.myfoxdetroit.com/story/20...cy-manager-law
"Senate Majority Leader Randy Richardville says he and fellow Republicans have a proposal for a law to replace the one shot down by voters, but haven't released details because it's under legal review".

**Eber Brock Ward** · November-07-12, 06:43 AM

Anyone can propose anything; we need it to pass.

**michimoby** · November-07-12, 08:04 AM

State Proposal 1 fails, likely due to a high proportion of Detroiters opposing it.

However, in the same breath...Detroit Proposal C passes overwhelmingly, granting uninterrupted legal powers to an unelected official.

This city has gone beyond ludicrous -- we've gone PLAID! :\

**313WX** · November-07-12, 08:39 AM

Common sense finally prevails in the state of Michigan.

Bankruptcy is the right recourse.

Detroit [[and even Michigan) will be better off for it.

EDIT: I also can't wait to see the lawsuits that will start flying.

**michimoby** · November-07-12, 09:02 AM

Originally Posted by 313WX

Common sense finally prevails in the state of Michigan.

Bankruptcy is the right recourse.

Detroit [[and even Michigan) will be better off for it.

EDIT: I also can't wait to see the lawsuits that will start flying.

Bankruptcy is a scary, scary weapon in this fight. But in some respects, it is the right recourse that calls the question: what once could only be enforced by a single appointed EFM [[such as union pension cuts) now has the federal, legal standing to back it up....

...which means that either the unions will negotiate, or riot. That sounds only slightly scary. :\

**313WX** · November-07-12, 09:05 AM

Originally Posted by michimoby

Bankruptcy is a scary, scary weapon in this fight. But in some respects, it is the right recourse that calls the question: what once could only be enforced by a single appointed EFM [[such as union pension cuts) now has the federal, legal standing to back it up....

...which means that either the unions will negotiate, or riot. That sounds only slightly scary. :\

And not just that, even a Bankruptcy Judge doesn't have the sweeping powers that an EM had.

I also don't buy all of the fear mongering over a bankruptcy proceeding either, based on past cases in places such as Jefferson County, AL and Orange County, CA.

**Eber Brock Ward** · November-07-12, 09:16 AM

Originally Posted by 313WX

I also don't buy all of the fear mongering over a bankruptcy proceeding either, based on past cases in places such as Jefferson County, AL and Orange County, CA.

Bingo. I don't buy a "degradation of services" argument, either, since most services are at a bare minimum, anyway.

Under BK, most services you and I see will remain more or less unchanged, but the BK judge could get the fiscal house in order.

**michimoby** · November-07-12, 09:34 AM

Originally Posted by Eber Brock Ward

Bingo. I don't buy a "degradation of services" argument, either, since most services are at a bare minimum, anyway.

Under BK, most services you and I see will remain more or less unchanged, but the BK judge could get the fiscal house in order.

What of the major deficient service in the city today: the lack of access to quality education? The approach to DPS' restructuring completely changes from here on out.

**313WX** · November-07-12, 10:36 AM

Originally Posted by Eber Brock Ward

Bingo. I don't buy a "degradation of services" argument, either, since most services are at a bare minimum, anyway.

Under BK, most services you and I see will remain more or less unchanged, but the BK judge could get the fiscal house in order.

Exactly, and that's because the BK Judge can declare a moratorium on all debt payments [[half of Detroit's budget goes to debt obligations) until the banks realize they're only getting 5% to 20% of what they're owed.

There would still be budget cuts, no doubt. Of course, they wouldn't be NEARLY as severe either. The grant-funded DDHWP been dissolved either [[which the dissolving of that department went against the city charter).

Also, the unions would still be able to negotiate a new contract.

As far as the bond ratings for the state of Michigan or the surrounding communities, the interest rates on your debt payments may go up a little bit. Big deal. Detroit has been allowed to falter for 40 years, partly because it was deprived of capital from your fleeing to the suburbs and your encouragement of urban sprawl. [[something the vast majority of city centers in other states haven't had to contend with nearly to the extent Detroit has).

**Eber Brock Ward** · November-07-12, 10:29 AM

Pre-Prop 1 failure: Lack of access to quality education
Post-Prop 1 faulure: Lack of access to quality education

I understand that your point is medium/long term, though.

**313WX** · November-07-12, 10:39 AM

Originally Posted by Eber Brock Ward

Pre-Prop 1 failure: Lack of access to quality education
Post-Prop 1 faulure: Lack of access to quality education

I understand that your point is medium/long term, though.

Thing is, the problem with the lack of access to quality education won't be solved by an EM...

1. That problem is largely social and unique to Detroit. Even if you had the vest teachers in the world and state of the art school buildings and equipment, you also need parents and kids who give a damn about their education before there's a marked improvement in its quality.

2. Detroit will continue to bleed taxpayers who would normally fund the schools, short term and long term. No matter how much you restructure the debt or kick the can down the road with more debt, at the end of the day you will won't have any type of income to pay it off.

**Cincinnati_Kid** · November-07-12, 10:51 AM

Don't worry, in a couple of years Michigan will be a "right to work" state anyways. The Repubs are hell bent on that happening.

**leapfrog** · November-11-12, 01:09 PM

Originally Posted by Cincinnati_Kid

Don't worry, in a couple of years Michigan will be a "right to work" state anyways. The Repubs are hell bent on that happening.

Without question - Prop 2 was just testing the waters. Now that it failed big time, this gives the Repubs the momentum they need to push for a right to work law. That was their plan all along

**Wesley Mouch** · November-11-12, 03:41 PM

Originally Posted by leapfrog

Without question - Prop 2 was just testing the waters. Now that it failed big time, this gives the Repubs the momentum they need to push for a right to work law. That was their plan all along

And why shouldn't they push 'right to work'. Why is freedom of association secondary to the rights of the majority? Unions need real reform. They are insulated from the need to reform by old practices and by a stream of money that falls in regardless of their value to their members. They are a monopoly.

It is not unusual for a Union member to be unhappy with their union. Doesn't mean they want the union decertified. But their opinion doesn't really count. Their dues flow to their leaders and get spent as the leaders see fit. This isn't a worker's union. This is no less of a monopoly that see in big business.

'Right to Work' is a reasonable idea. It is objectionable to Unions as it is an existential threat. Well, they could use such a threat. Would be good for them, IMO.

Unionize all that you wish. But don't encumber my ability to do as I wish, to fund groups as I wish, and to be left free from majority wishes -- so long as I cause no harm.

**p69rrh51** · November-11-12, 06:15 PM

Originally Posted by leapfrog

Without question - Prop 2 was just testing the waters. Now that it failed big time, this gives the Repubs the momentum they need to push for a right to work law. That was their plan all along

Prop 2 had absolutely nothing to do with collective bargaining which is already protected under federal law. Something the Prop 2 proponents neglected to mention.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nationa..._Relations_Act

Now the National Extortion Association and its cohorts wanted to use prop 2 to be able to strike again. Something they have not been able to reverse using proper channels,

**Wesley Mouch** · November-11-12, 11:28 PM

Originally Posted by p69rrh51

Prop 2 had absolutely nothing to do with collective bargaining which is already protected under federal law. Something the Prop 2 proponents neglected to mention.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nationa..._Relations_Act

Now the National Extortion Association and its cohorts wanted to use prop 2 to be able to strike again. Something they have not been able to reverse using proper channels,

Elaborate then, please, on Scott Walker and Wisconsin. Did he, or did he not limit collective bargaining?

**p69rrh51** · November-12-12, 01:07 AM

Originally Posted by Wesley Mouch

Elaborate then, please, on Scott Walker and Wisconsin. Did he, or did he not limit collective bargaining?

He did and I have been wondering why there has been no challenge federally? But then I applaud all of his actions!

**adamjab19** · November-07-12, 12:05 PM

Well Detroiter's will have to speak up more and expect more out of their defunct governments instead of voting in the old corrupt, non-functioning elected officials. It seems what people want since they voted this down....

**guito13** · November-07-12, 12:25 PM

Essentially Detroiters think they are doing just fine....

http://www.photozo.com/album/data/4507/spiral.jpg

**noggin** · November-07-12, 12:27 PM

To quote the NY Times, "Let Detroit go bankrupt!"

**Danny** · November-07-12, 12:49 PM

I'm glad the prop. 1 failed. Good riddance that EM dictatorship law. This will teach Gov. Snyder, the Nerd not to mess withDetroit and other city and school governments. Snyder will deal his business inLansing, Detroit and other city gov'ts and school board will do theirs.

**guito13** · November-07-12, 12:56 PM

Originally Posted by Danny

I'm glad the prop. 1 failed. Good riddance that EM dictatorship law. This will teach Gov. Snyder, the Nerd not to mess withDetroit and other city and school governments. Snyder will deal his business inLansing, Detroit and other city gov'ts and school board will do theirs.

Danny, how has that been working out for the city/dps over the last few decades?

**Danny** · November-07-12, 01:53 PM

Originally Posted by guito13

Danny, how has that been working out for the city/dps over the last few decades?

Very awful! It's was close the Detroit didn't get a EM. For Detroit Public Schools got Bob Roberts for EM and the DPS school board was dissolved for a while. Now they back and running the school system like a real government. Public Act 4 was Snyder's blunder. It violates the Bill of Rights in our constitution and state constitution of checks and balance of controlled governments. No elected official can't hire a type of manager to control or dissolve local and national government resources.

Hopefully the people the Benton Harbor, MI. will get their elected officials back soon. In the meantime all Michigan cities will have to rely the old Emergency Financial Manager or some bankruptcy judge from a land far far away to oversee and city gov'ts or school districts financial woes.