The Best Money Matty's Ever Wasted [Bridge-blocking proposal defeated- Lawsuits Next]

**Richard** · November-04-12, 07:03 AM

Originally Posted by Honky Tonk

"This guy is just unbelievable. I can't believe the new flyers he's peddling."

Why is there any doubt left in anyone's mind that this guy is a self-interest POS?

Here is a guy that commandeered public land, closed it off WITHOUT authorization, under the guise of "Homeland Security". He successfully snuffed out a 45 year old bait shop business by cutting off access to it. Built unathorized freeway ramps, and refused to take them down, then wasted State money buy fighting it in courts. Rerouted truck traffic through residential streets, and on and on and on. And people still post "Gee, I'm not sure how I should vote?" What does he have to do? Walk into your living room and kick your dog in the jewels?

If you really think about it ,how is building a new bridge going to be any different then what he has done?It is going to be the same thing in Delray just the names and location will change.

There are a massive amount of private interests that would like to see this bridge built and are in essence doing the exact same thing,it is all about profit with no emotions involved so how are they any different ,you just do not know their names,so please explain to me how it is any different?

So now instead of destroying one neighborhood there is a possibility that another will also be destroyed,but it really does not matter because it was a lousy neighborhood anyways and was going downhill a long time ago and those people do not matter anyways.

So I guess this would set a precedence because in theory pretty much most of the city is considered "going downhill" in some eyes so it would not matter what happens where because.

I think it would be very profitable to place a toll road through the center of Corktown,what you say you will not allow it ? Tough by passing this proposition you are giving me a pass at will,and removing your voice from the process in the future.

Next thing you know they are going to just start adding taxes to our tea at will,then what are we going to do? Have a tea party?If this goes forward and if in the future it needs funding via taxes and now by saying no vote you are giving up the right to future say so in what happens are you comfortable with that?

Forget about saying but but Canada promised this,Canada is accountable to their people,what happens if at that time they are in a depression and say hey we do not have the monies to cover that,it is politics and politics change on a whim or election.

Yes this is based on ifs but also we are not talking about a candy bar at 7-11 this could end up being another tax piled on top of the others,and once again you can also see the results of piling taxes up to the point of where it becomes a burden.

Look around the city and see the results of people giving up their right to have a voice.

What is so wrong about allowing the people to vote on this?
This is not a dictatorship it is a democracy or was at one point in time but now it is easier to sit back and let others make the decisions that way if it all goes bad in the future we can say it was somebody else fault.

**Gannon** · November-04-12, 07:24 AM

If Prop 666 is so good, why the exemption for existing properties?!

Build your damned theoretical tollway through Corktown. Without forcing everyone through a MONOPOLY route, you won't get return worthy of your time and investment.

Monopoly's should never be protected by the government. It is government's JOB to protect the citizens against the force of one robber-baron who might have a spare $31-million bucks lying around to sway an election or three. And this beyond the many, many millions spent trying to BUY the elected's allegiance.

Cheers!
John

**Honky Tonk** · November-04-12, 07:42 AM

"If you really think about it ,how is building a new bridge going to be any different then what he has done?"

Though I understand your moral objection to this, have you actually visited the proposed route? There literally is nothing there sans a cement plant, and yes, a few residents. The residents will be compensated I'm sure.

"There are a massive amount of private interests that would like to see this bridge built and are in essence doing the exact same thing"

True. But now you have many people investing, [[see my previous post about clever people capitalizing on the bridge, traffic, and generating jobs and revenue), instead of one tax evading monopoly. Again, the State, [[read: You), gets the revenue, not a single individual.

"So now instead of destroying one neighborhood there is a possibility that another will also be destroyed,but it really does not matter because it was a lousy neighborhood anyways and was going downhill a long time ago and those people do not matter anyways."

All true. But it IS a lousy neighborhood, getting lousier daily. and it used to be mine. There is very little, if anything, "standing in the way". It is already has several major trucking and logistic companies in the neighborhood. Believe me, if someone had offered to buy up my property for a reasonable sum back in the day, I would have been out of there in a flash. And THAT is another difference between Moroun & Snyder. The State WILL compensate people for their property.

"I think it would be very profitable to place a toll road through the center of Corktown,what you say you will not allow it ?"

When you tend your garden Richard, do you pull weeds or the floral? Corktown is densely populated and viable, still holding it's own. It isn't one burned out shell after another, abandoned long ago.

"Next thing you know they are going to just start adding taxes to our tea at will,then what are we going to do? Have a tea party?"

In the Detroit harbor? ABSOLUTELY! Are you with me?

"What is so wrong about allowing the people to vote on this?"

Nothing. Except after reading some of the comments posted after the news stories, my concern is people's awareness and vision for the future, not trumped up lying emotional flyers and TV ads.

I don't see anything wrong with where the bridge is going, I don't see any increase in my MI taxes, and I welcome the revenue from the bridge project.

The defense rests.

**Richard** · November-04-12, 07:43 AM

I know but look at it this way ,there are federal dollars involved in all of this so you guys are representing the rest of the country in your decisions ,that guy on a tractor plowing the field in Iowa does not give a crap about a bridge in Detroit and it is in no way going to effect his bottom dollar but he is going to help pay for it so he is expecting you guys to do the right thing.

What is worse the Government protecting a monopoly or the Government becoming a monopoly at least in the private sector there are other ways to skin a cat but not so much when it comes to the will of the Gov.

You do realize that we are now on their recordings because of the keywords. lol

**Honky Tonk** · November-04-12, 07:48 AM

"You do realize that we are now on their recordings because of the keywords. lol"

They'll just be added to the file I already have.

**Gannon** · November-04-12, 07:57 AM

I just realized that Pa Bridge should go the way of Ma Bell.

I cannot find a way to justify having an international crossing in private hands.

Doesn't matter if the owner's family was forced to move to make room for it.

Although, that always makes this tragedy all the more curious.

He should be forced to divest of this property. Emminent Domain under the Homeland Insecurity Act.

So, now where would anyone stand on Proposition Six?!

**Gannon** · November-04-12, 07:58 AM

Oh yeah, Niagra, too.

**Pam** · November-04-12, 08:16 AM

Though I understand your moral objection to this, have you actually visited the proposed route? There literally is nothing there sans a cement plant, and yes, a few residents.

I've seen the figure of 250 homes, 5 churches and 43 busineses mentioned as being destroyed. [[In the link below and elsewhere.) I don't think that's ok. I was thinking of voting yes on 6. Maybe I'll just skip that one.

http://michigancitizen.com/on-the-go...people-decide/

**Richard** · November-04-12, 08:22 AM

It is still early yet so okay.

Originally Posted by Honky Tonk

"If you really think about it ,how is building a new bridge going to be any different then what he has done?"

Though I understand your moral objection to this, have you actually visited the proposed route? There literally is nothing there sans a cement plant, and yes, a few residents. The residents will be compensated I'm sure.

"There are a massive amount of private interests that would like to see this bridge built and are in essence doing the exact same thing"

True. But now you have many people investing, [[see my previous post about clever people capitalizing on the bridge, traffic, and generating jobs and revenue), instead of one tax evading monopoly. Again, the State, [[read: You), gets the revenue, not a single individual.

Do you really believe it will ever be profitable?

"So now instead of destroying one neighborhood there is a possibility that another will also be destroyed,but it really does not matter because it was a lousy neighborhood anyways and was going downhill a long time ago and those people do not matter anyways."

All true. But it IS a lousy neighborhood, getting lousier daily. and it used to be mine. There is very little, if anything, "standing in the way". It is already has several major trucking and logistic companies in the neighborhood. Believe me, if someone had offered to buy up my property for a reasonable sum back in the day, I would have been out of there in a flash. And THAT is another difference between Moroun & Snyder. The State WILL compensate people for their property.

The state meaning you will be compensating others but there have been no discussions concerning this anyways.

"I think it would be very profitable to place a toll road through the center of Corktown,what you say you will not allow it ?"

When you tend your garden Richard, do you pull weeds or the floral? Corktown is densely populated and viable, still holding it's own. It isn't one burned out shell after another, abandoned long ago.

History repeats itself,every freeway in this country was put through a neighborhood where it was viable or not at the time.

"Next thing you know they are going to just start adding taxes to our tea at will,then what are we going to do? Have a tea party?"

In the Detroit harbor? ABSOLUTELY! Are you with me?

In a nano second.

"What is so wrong about allowing the people to vote on this?"

Nothing. Except after reading some of the comments posted after the news stories, my concern is people's awareness and vision for the future, not trumped up lying emotional flyers and TV ads.

I know,the problem is you are really only hearing one side of the story and most seem to be basing on emotions,the question is do you like making decisions or do you prefer others make the decisions for you based on what is in their best interests or yours.

I do not care about the bridge,my interest is what happens or designed to happen after the bridge and the way it is being done that is what I oppose ,the bridge is just the distraction and a link in a way bigger picture.

I don't see anything wrong with where the bridge is going, I don't see any increase in my MI taxes, and I welcome the revenue from the bridge project.

The defense rests.

No defense, it all just opinions everybody puts their input in to try and help others to make as best an informed decision as possible,but then there are some that feel that this is a nice way of making somebody else pay the piper,and that is not way to make an informed decision.

If you vote then the people have spoken,done deal but not wanting to vote makes it look like its okay to follow the leader,but sometimes the leaders may not have our best interests at heart.

It is just a vote for the people to decide it still does not guarantee the bridge will be built.

**Richard** · November-04-12, 08:35 AM

Originally Posted by Gannon

I cannot find a way to justify having an international crossing in private hands.

He should be forced to divest of this property. Emminent Domain under the Homeland Insecurity Act.

So, now where would anyone stand on Proposition Six?!

The new bridge is also going to be in private hands,the contractor building the bridge is securing the note so there is no difference it still will be private owned.If it defaults then they gain control,and it will default by design, basically it is a slick way of leveraging taxpayers money to build a private enterprise.The Bell building was a tiny version of this.

I believe that there was an offer to sell the existing bridge but the taxpayers at the time preferred not to want the liability.

**gnome** · November-04-12, 08:42 AM

Originally Posted by Richard

I know but look at it this way ,there are federal dollars involved in all of this so you guys are representing the rest of the country in your decisions ,that guy on a tractor plowing the field in Iowa does not give a crap about a bridge in Detroit and it is in no way going to effect his bottom dollar but he is going to help pay for it so he is expecting you guys to do the right thing.

you are correct Richard, the guy in Iowa might not care about a bridge in Detroit, but he is interested in the Federal Farm programs that allow him to water his crops, the interstate highway system that allows his grain to get to market and the US Navy that protects the ships that carry the grain that lets him sell that grain around the world.

Originally Posted by Richard

What is worse the Government protecting a monopoly or the Government becoming a monopoly at least in the private sector there are other ways to skin a cat but not so much when it comes to the will of the Gov.

I have been hearing this same notion that the government should not become a monopoly. I find this curious. A monopoly is defined as a few people controlling a good or service. Monopolies are anti-competition. Since the Michigan government is comprised of 9 million citizens it can not be a monopoly. A monopoly is controlled by The Few, the government is controlled by The Many.

A monopoly is anti-competition. Right now we have one bridge, will we have more competition if we have two bridges? So a second bridge increases competition, fights monopoly control, and increases trade for Michigan businesses and their employees.

**jcole** · November-04-12, 08:46 AM

Originally Posted by Richard

It is still early yet so okay.

No defense, it all just opinions everybody puts their input in to try and help others to make as best an informed decision as possible,but then there are some that feel that this is a nice way of making somebody else pay the piper,and that is not way to make an informed decision.

If you vote then the people have spoken,done deal but not wanting to vote makes it look like its okay to follow the leader,but sometimes the leaders may not have our best interests at heart.

It is just a vote for the people to decide it still does not guarantee the bridge will be built.

It's not just to approve this bridge; if passed it would make the citizenry vote on ALL bridge projects; can't you just imagine the cluster fuck that would cause?

**Honky Tonk** · November-04-12, 08:58 AM

Do you really believe it will ever be profitable?

Yes, but a again, an educated guess & crapshoot. Moroun didn't make his money picking up bottles, and he isn't spending 33 mil out of the goodness of his heart. [[pending proof he actually has one).

History repeats itself,every freeway in this country was put through a neighborhood where it was viable or not at the time.
I was raised there. That neighborhood has been on the accelerated decline since the late 60's. I met old friends there this past summer, and it's only a shell [[burned out), of it's former self. Nothing viable exists in the path of the bridge.

In a nano second.

Look for me. I'll have early Native American garb on. [[Hey, if it worked once....).

I do not care about the bridge,my interest is what happens or designed to happen after the bridge and the way it is being done that is what I oppose ,the bridge is just the distraction and a link in a way bigger picture.

Yeah, that bothers me too Richard, but someone has to grab the bull by the testicles. The Canadians aren't going to wait forever, and second, 10 years down the road people will say "we've spent millions in court and still there is no bridge, look @ all the vacant land, etc. let's drop it". I don't think this is an ideal opportunity, I'd rather have NASA or some high tech company setup shop on the banks, but it is a good opportunity, IMO. Maybe The Nerd can make up some revenue from screwing up the movie industry we had.

**Wesley Mouch** · November-04-12, 01:11 PM

Originally Posted by Pam

I've seen the figure of 250 homes, 5 churches and 43 busineses mentioned as being destroyed. [[In the link below and elsewhere.) I don't think that's ok. I was thinking of voting yes on 6. Maybe I'll just skip that one.

http://michigancitizen.com/on-the-go...people-decide/

Why is it not OK? The government and railroads have been taking property for the 'public good' since the republic was founded.

In the grand scheme of things, these figures are minuscule. Compare any of this to the 1960's public housing clearing or the freeway system we drive on daily. This # of properties being taken is amazingly small and quite reasonable.

Or we can just say no to everything. But fear not, there are other nations that'll be happy to invest and create wealth and prosperity. Maybe China'll send us some food stamps.

**DetroitHabitater** · November-04-12, 11:22 PM

The great irony is that anybody who votes for 6 is basically saying 'i want to vote on more things' which would imply researching and understanding the issues...which if you are voting for 6 you clearly don't do.

**Pam** · November-05-12, 07:42 AM

Originally Posted by Wesley Mouch

Why is it not OK? The government and railroads have been taking property for the 'public good' since the republic was founded.

In the grand scheme of things, these figures are minuscule. Compare any of this to the 1960's public housing clearing or the freeway system we drive on daily. This # of properties being taken is amazingly small and quite reasonable.

It might be amazingly small someplace else, but I think it will effectively kill off what's left of Delray. Here is one of the churches to be torn down:

http://detroit1701.org/HCHungarian%20Church.html

**gnome** · November-05-12, 08:29 AM

You are correct Pam, it is a bit of a Hobson's Choice. There is no doubt the neighborhood is not going to ever draw the kind of housing it did in the past because not a lot of folks like living within wafting distance of Zug Island. And the Salt mine has not been the best neighbor either with all their trucks rolling by day and night.

our ancestors were a tough bunch when they built homes within close proximity of such places. Tougher than me.

I wonder if you know of anyone who would like to move down there? Even if the land was free, can you see anyone building a new home within a few blocks of Zug?

i understand there are folks there now, but they have been there for a long time, for the area to thrive it needs new housing to replace all those places that have crumbled and rotted and burned. It is not going to remain static. It is either going to crumble away like it has, or some folks are gonna have to move there and build new.

i wish I could see new building, new homes, but those folks who can afford to build new, opt to build somewhere else.

if you had the magic wand, what would you do?

**Gannon** · November-05-12, 09:05 AM

Originally Posted by gnome

if you had the magic wand, what would you do?

Since the first twenty or thirty feet of ground is probably contaminated beyond even the loosest regulation...it should be dredged out to make a lagoon.

An entire class of floating houses can be created from used shipping containers...and the first planned protected harbor installed here.

I've been thinking of container housing for some time now. They are like adult-sized building blocks.

Cheers!

**noggin** · November-05-12, 09:27 AM

Matty has a ton of slum properties. Take a tour: http://mattymoroun.com/

**Honky Tonk** · November-05-12, 09:38 AM

Originally Posted by noggin

Matty has a ton of slum properties. Take a tour: http://mattymoroun.com/

Some real fix 'er uppers, and handy man specials in there. Would be interesting to find out if any are in the way of Matt't proposed 2nd span.

Shollin · November-05-12, 09:45 AM

Matty Moroun is 85 years old. Lets be honest, he doesn't have much time left. Why is this guy fighting so hard to increase his net worth? He's a billionaire. Why can't he just enjoy the rest of his life? Even if this bridge was built and on schedule, there's a good chance Moroun wouldn't even live long enough to see the completion of it. Mike Illitch in his final years has dedicated himself to bring a World Series before he dies. Isn't there something Moroun can do to take pride in before he dies? He can't take his money with him when he's dead.

**DetroitPlanner** · November-05-12, 09:57 AM

Originally Posted by Shollin

Isn't there something Moroun can do to take pride in before he dies? He can't take his money with him when he's dead.

WHAT!?! The shroud has no pockets?!?!

**DetroitHabitater** · November-05-12, 10:52 AM

Originally Posted by Pam

It might be amazingly small someplace else, but I think it will effectively kill off what's left of Delray. Here is one of the churches to be torn down:

http://detroit1701.org/HCHungarian%20Church.html

I too am an advocate for preserving old catholic churches in the city According to this somewhat dated map, Holy Cross is not at risk

http://www.partnershipborderstudy.co...an_I36-E2E.pdf

**drjeff** · November-05-12, 12:08 PM

Originally Posted by Shollin

Matty Moroun is 85 years old. Lets be honest, he doesn't have much time left. Why is this guy fighting so hard to increase his net worth? He's a billionaire. Why can't he just enjoy the rest of his life? Even if this bridge was built and on schedule, there's a good chance Moroun wouldn't even live long enough to see the completion of it. Mike Illitch in his final years has dedicated himself to bring a World Series before he dies. Isn't there something Moroun can do to take pride in before he dies? He can't take his money with him when he's dead.

I think it's interesting that you really don't hear his name associated with any charitable contributions of note. So he's greedy and unwilling to do good with his billions. If there's a hell, it's for people like him.