Another Detroiter makes the cycle

[Det_ard]

Another Detroiter makes the cycle, moving in with hope and enthusiasm, evangelizing about the city, experiencing the decline first-hand, gradually getting fed up with all the BS, and finally capitulating by moving out of the city when it was just too much to endure.

People have been doing the cycle for decades now. It's gotten so that every time I hear someone talk about moving to the city, and "making a difference", I mentally compute an over/under on how long before they move to the suburbs or another city.

[Note: I wrote this a few weeks ago as a way to vent after everything was finished. I figured I'd share it with /r/detroit. I'll gladly answer any questions too.]

After much time, money, and hair-pulling, I’ve finally managed to close the chapter in my life known as my house in East English Village. When I bought the house 10 years ago, a much younger and more ambitious version of myself wanted to see Detroit turn around. I’d moved downtown when I was 19, settled into a roach-infested apartment, and had a great time living there. I remember saying that the only way it was going to get better was if people that cared started moving back. About 5 years after that, I found East English Village and ended up purchasing a home there.

At the time, it was a decent area with an actual sense of community. The majority of people took pride in their homes and made sure the neighborhood was kept up. Lawns were mowed, yards were raked, trash was taken out, and anything broken was fixed. It was, for quite some time, one of the nicer neighborhoods in Detroit. Additionally, the neighborhood had a large number of police officers living there which made crime somewhat minimal. People were genuinely surprised when they saw the neighborhood and realized they were still in Detroit.

The housing crash took a severe toll. The majority of the houses lost something like 70-90% of their value, my own included. People had bought into mortgages that they couldn’t afford. It’d hit in waves: around the same time each year, you’d notice more and more houses where the lights were off and the lawns were overgrown. The police residents that kept an unofficial watch on the neighborhood slowly left. Neighbors that said hello were replaced with people that glared at you as you walked by. Break-ins and theft became more and more common.

Over the last few years, I’ve watched more and more ghetto “culture” creep into the neighborhood. I’ve seen people dump fast food garbage from their car into their neighbor’s front yard. People sitting out front blasting obnoxiously loud music from parked cars while weeds grow around them. Barking dogs with garden hoses used as a leash that are never let inside and rarely fed. People casually tossing bottles and wrappers onto the sidewalk instead of throwing them away. The common theme that I encountered is that if you can’t eat it, screw it, smoke it, or steal it, then you might as well try to break it. Ghetto culture took what was once a nice neighborhood and wrecked it in less than 5 years.

As far as the actual city, most services are absolutely awful and borderline insane when you consider what gets paid in taxes. Trying to get a final water reading involved sitting on hold for an hour, getting disconnected, and sitting on hold for another two hours, only to be told that it’s “my problem” that they can’t give me a time that they’ll be there before hanging up. It’s the same for literally any other service that the city of Detroit touches. Horrible customer service, insane waiting times, zero workmanship, and a complete lack of pride seem to be integrated into every single city “service”.

I’ve come to the conclusion that there’s no point in maintaining something if your neighbors are going to destroy it. Each infested home takes out the surrounding homes with it. They eventually fall like dominoes until there’s nothing left to ruin. There was nothing more disgusting than walking into the back yard and seeing condom-filled beer bottles that my “neighbor” dumped into my yard for no apparent reason. Who knows? Maybe they were cleaning out their two busted cars and missed the trash can by 30 feet.

My last straw was spending $1000 to repair the damage from a total of $6 of copper plumbing that was stolen. Enough is enough. I sold the house for pennies of what I paid for it. I have no doubt that the next inhabitants will say they “stay there” instead of “live there” and act accordingly. I’ll drive by next year and see all of my hard work destroyed in a pile of garbage. The back yard where I had my graduation party will be a trash dump used by people that have zero pride in anything they do. The front yard that I always maintained will be an overgrown weed garden. I’ve watched it happen to home after home.

There’s still good people left in Detroit. I have met and know quite a few of them. However, they are the absolute minority when compared to the general population. For every person that attempts to make a difference, there are a few hundred other people that truly don’t care. There’s no reason to improve or maintain anything if it’s just going to get stolen or destroyed. You can’t compete with complete apathy and a total lack of pride. It’s a constant uphill battle that has no end.

Best of luck Detroit. I hope you can save yourself.

Extensive comments and follow-up at...

http://www.reddit.com/r/Detroit/comm...d_to/?sort=new

[iheartthed]

Those east side neighborhoods like EEV and Morningside really took the worst of the real estate collapse. I have relatives who have lived over there since the late 80s and it's astounding how much the area has declined in just 5 - 7 years.

[Detroitnerd]

Hey, it's gotta be rough. Ghetto neighbors are no fun. And I've always been a little wary of those east side neighborhoods because the nice ones abut some tough ones. It's kinda block by block, and you never know how it's going to shift. And to have bought in 2007 or so has to be especially awful.

That said, I sense some exaggeration here from a person in a highly agitated and emotional state. All city services suck? Garbage pickup is awesome all over the city, for instance. Overbroad language like that doesn't help matters.

And I wonder what this person expected. Living in Detroit is a struggle. It sometimes means walking down a street and seeing litter. Or seeing something uglier. And, frankly, when I see little jibes at Detroitese [["where you stay?") I do detect a little bit of cultural chauvinism at play. That's the sort of thing people pick up on. It's hard to be friendly to somebody when you know they're pissed-off and think they're better than you.

Ghetto culture destroyed it? This is our grandparents' narrative. I thought we understood now that when people of means withdraw their resources -- whether it's because of racism or because of criminal lending practices -- neighborhoods get disinvested. To blame "ghetto culture" for the decline is like blaming your cold on a cough.

Living in Detroit, over the years, you get used to the kiss-off essay. Some of them have been great, pointing out in very neutral terms why they can't live in the city, and I feel for those people and don't blame them one bit. But something about the tone of this essay bothers me. It's almost like it should be retitled, "I made a lot of poor decisions buying an overvalued house in a neighborhood I didn't know very well and am OUTRAGED that it didn't turn into Ann Arbor in five years, like I had hoped."

[iheartthed]

Living in Detroit, over the years, you get used to the kiss-off essay. Some of them have been great, pointing out in very neutral terms why they can't live in the city, and I feel for those people and don't blame them one bit. But something about the tone of this essay bothers me. It's almost like it should be retitled, "I made a lot of poor decisions buying an overvalued house in a neighborhood I didn't know very well and am OUTRAGED that it didn't turn into Ann Arbor in five years, like I had hoped."

Pretty much. Sounds like his major complaint is that his house was worthless when he finally decided to sell it... That's not entirely Detroit's fault.

[poobert]

Pretty much. Sounds like his major complaint is that his house was worthless when he finally decided to sell it... That's not entirely Detroit's fault.

No, that happened everywhere. And while East English Village, Morningside, and Detroit in general got hit hard with the foreclosure crisis, I don't know where in the US was spared. He makes it sound like vacant houses were exclusive to his corner of the world.

I'm not sure if this guy was even in EEV proper or one of the English street names in Morningside, or in the pie-slice of Cornerstone or what, but as a resident it sounds to me like a greatly exaggerated version of the reality in East English Village. Yeah we got hammered with foreclosures and the low housing prices allowed some lower-class people to move in but it also allowed for a lot of DIYers and young professionals to move in. EEV is not the Brightmoor he makes it out to be, and one only has to drive through it to realize it. He also makes no mention of the extremely active neighborhood association, which he could have reached out to if he was having problems. At the risk of being insensitive, he seems contented to have wallowed in his own misery. If in 2007 you didn't realize that the cops were eventually move out, move on, or die off since residency was lifted over a decade ago, and you're counting on them to be your private security on their off time, I don't know what to tell you.

Interestingly I bought in EEV after the housing bubble burst and so did a number of people I know - and we're all pretty satisfied. Sorry your investment didn't work out, dude.

[TKshreve]

Garbage pickup is awesome all over the city, for instance. Overbroad language like that doesn't help matters.

Does that apply to litter as well? The term overbroad is once again applicable.

Ghetto culture destroyed it? This is our grandparents' narrative. I thought we understood now that when people of means withdraw their resources -- whether it's because of racism or because of criminal lending practices -- neighborhoods get disinvested. To blame "ghetto culture" for the decline is like blaming your cold on a cough.

To say that is to deny "ghetto culture" exists altogether. The ability to lift Detroit lies directly in the hands of the people left residing Detroit. If you're waiting for some cavalry of residential White Knights [[business term) to come riding back into town to boost taxes and morale... I think you're in for a long wait. In order to re-gentrify Detroit, it will need to start from within its own ranks. That includes a serious ethical and moral overhaul. Bootstraps DNerd..... Bootstraps.

Living in Detroit, over the years, you get used to the kiss-off essay. Some of them have been great, pointing out in very neutral terms why they can't live in the city, and I feel for those people and don't blame them one bit. But something about the tone of this essay bothers me. It's almost like it should be retitled, "I made a lot of poor decisions buying an overvalued house in a neighborhood I didn't know very well and am OUTRAGED that it didn't turn into Ann Arbor in five years, like I had hoped."

Wow, no wonder home buyers are running for the hills. Even the educated residents find fault in his very attempt at residence. Kinda makes me wonder how the lesser-off welcomed this guy. So priceless, another critique fallen upon deaf ears.

In the end, the fact remains...... the city loses a tax paying resident, and gains blight wielding squatters.

I grew up next to EEV and know many individuals who live[[d) there. Those that remain do not fawn over their corner of the city. It is referred to as another has-been area that is headed in the wrong direction. Speaking of the last 5 years or so, I have seen the Alter corridor under similar duress. 1 out of 3 houses along that stretch is now vacant, boarded up, burnt out or razed. It is a real time event occurring every time I drive along this strip.

[Detroitnerd]

I think I was pretty clear that when people have legitimate complaints and phrase them neutrally, I don't have a problem with them picking up and leaving the city. In fact, I admire them for having tried in some of the tougher pockets of the city. As for this person ...

[acer_ventura]

I think I was pretty clear that when people have legitimate complaints and phrase them neutrally, I don't have a problem with them picking up and leaving the city. In fact, I admire them for having tried in some of the tougher pockets of the city. As for this person ...

I think it's pretty obvious that by the time the average city dweller gets ready to jump ship, they're no longer describing their personal battlefield with any level of neutrality, anymore.
But like an earlier post mentioned; there goes one more taxpayer that cared -regardless of whether you liked his story-telling ability...

[Detroitnerd]

Hey, it's gotta be rough. Ghetto neighbors are no fun. And I've always been a little wary of those east side neighborhoods because the nice ones abut some tough ones. It's kinda block by block, and you never know how it's going to shift. And to have bought in 2007 or so has to be especially awful.

Yeah, just pretend that paragraph never existed. Oh, that heartless, victim-blaming Detroitnerd.

[TKshreve]

Yeah, just pretend that paragraph never existed. Oh, that heartless, victim-blaming Detroitnerd.

Yes I saw that paragraph. It's like dusting a turd with glitter. With all due respect of course.

I think the subject individual was trying to understand why Detroit is what Detroit is. I will agree that it takes a thick skinned person to subsist in Detroit. But the ingrained culture should be a central topic of debate when people here talk about raising Detroit from the ashes, and it's all too often brushed aside.

We cry about the allocation of funds, or the mismanagement of DPS, or the poorly funded DPD/DFD..... but in the end we now have a couple of generations of Detroiters who are undereducated, hate the police and don't retain any hope the city will revive. More so, they lack the vision of what Detroit could be. And most importantly, they will continue to pass this onto the next generation as long as the cracks remain. How do you change this ingrained perception of the current situation? How do you convince them they should not get neck tattoos and throw their cheetos bags on the ground and/or learn proper English and grammar in hopes of holding down a respectable career? A large sect of Detroiters do not care about these things, and it is not boding well for re-gentrification purposes.

[Detroitnerd]

Yes I saw that paragraph. It's like dusting a turd with glitter. With all due respect of course.

I'm not heartened or cheered by anybody who took a chance and lost. And that's an important part of my take on it. I think of my landlord, for instance, who bought high and has worked for years to maintain the property knowing full well he's underwater. I have a lot of respect for him. And I'm sorry for this person getting soaked. Really.

I think the subject individual was trying to understand why Detroit is what Detroit is. I will agree that it takes a thick skinned person to subsist in Detroit. But the ingrained culture should be a central topic of debate when people here talk about raising Detroit from the ashes, and it's all too often brushed aside.

It's hard to understand poor people, especially the desperately poor people of Detroit. A lot of this stuff, in a more affluent neighborhood, would be called what it probably is: mental problems. I've lived in other places and seen it too, it's not a specifically Detroit thing, but we have it in abundance, I agree.

The very best neighborhoods in the city are diverse ones. You will have a few extremely poorly socialized poor people on the street, but also a good mix that stabilizes it: not just white and black but new immigrants, Bengali and Yemeni, Serb and Bosnian, Slavs and Ukranians, as well as different income levels, different religions, different ages. Those are generally the kinds of neighborhoods I choose to live in. I'm a minority, but so is everybody else. I steer pretty clear of monolithic poor-as-hell Detroit neighborhoods. I like a good mix. As I said, that's why I've steered clear of those neighborhoods over there. The nice part is very nice. The not-so-nice part is right up close and really not nice at all.

We cry about the allocation of funds, or the mismanagement of DPS, or the poorly funded DPD/DFD..... but in the end we now have a couple of generations of Detroiters who are undereducated, hate the police and don't retain any hope the city will revive. More so, they lack the vision of what Detroit could be. And most importantly, they will continue to pass this onto the next generation as long as the cracks remain. How do you change this ingrained perception of the current situation? How do you convince them they should not get neck tattoos and throw their cheetos bags on the ground and/or learn proper English and grammar in hopes of holding down a respectable career? A large sect of Detroiters do not care about these things, and it is not boding well for re-gentrification purposes.

Well, I don't really think gentrification is the answer. And maybe that's my complaint about the tone of that post. It's like, "I was all ready for gentrification to happen but it didn't! My neighborhood got worse! WTF, Detroit?" The poster is still young and will live. The people in that neighborhood are fucked no matter what.

As for the Detroiters who are the permanent underclass, nobody has a solution that works, man. You can't put them all in jail, because it would cost too much. You can't educate them, because there is no functioning model for inner-city education of people this forgotten. You can't expect them to pull themselves up by their bootstraps. What do you do? I don't know. I don't have a plan either. Nobody does. Frankly, it's not a priority because nobody in power cares about these people.

I wish it weren't the case, but, there you go.

[canuck]

Hey, it's gotta be rough. Ghetto neighbors are no fun. And I've always been a little wary of those east side neighborhoods because the nice ones abut some tough ones. It's kinda block by block, and you never know how it's going to shift. And to have bought in 2007 or so has to be especially awful.

That said, I sense some exaggeration here from a person in a highly agitated and emotional state. All city services suck? Garbage pickup is awesome all over the city, for instance. Overbroad language like that doesn't help matters.

And I wonder what this person expected. Living in Detroit is a struggle. It sometimes means walking down a street and seeing litter. Or seeing something uglier. And, frankly, when I see little jibes at Detroitese [["where you stay?") I do detect a little bit of cultural chauvinism at play. That's the sort of thing people pick up on. It's hard to be friendly to somebody when you know they're pissed-off and think they're better than you.

Ghetto culture destroyed it? This is our grandparents' narrative. I thought we understood now that when people of means withdraw their resources -- whether it's because of racism or because of criminal lending practices -- neighborhoods get disinvested. To blame "ghetto culture" for the decline is like blaming your cold on a cough.

Living in Detroit, over the years, you get used to the kiss-off essay. Some of them have been great, pointing out in very neutral terms why they can't live in the city, and I feel for those people and don't blame them one bit. But something about the tone of this essay bothers me. It's almost like it should be retitled, "I made a lot of poor decisions buying an overvalued house in a neighborhood I didn't know very well and am OUTRAGED that it didn't turn into Ann Arbor in five years, like I had hoped."

Wow! Very well put! Especially the part about the grandparent's narrative.

[ordinary]

Living in Detroit, over the years, you get used to the kiss-off essay. Some of them have been great, pointing out in very neutral terms why they can't live in the city, and I feel for those people and don't blame them one bit. But something about the tone of this essay bothers me. It's almost like it should be retitled, "I made a lot of poor decisions buying an overvalued house in a neighborhood I didn't know very well and am OUTRAGED that it didn't turn into Ann Arbor in five years, like I had hoped."

I've read all the posts in this thread and I'm going to try and point out, as Detroitnerd says, in neutral terms why my family and I are throwing in the towel.

We've had a house in the Cornerstone Village area in Detroit since 1938. It was probably one of the first houses on the street. My grandparents had it built. My mom and dad bought it from them and raised us 5 children there. My mom died in 2010 and all 5 of us siblings now own the house. My oldest son moved in there. The neighborhood has become pretty rough so it was good to have somebody living there, paying the utilities and the taxes. So he was the fourth generation of our family living in that house. He doesn't make a lot of money so it was ideal for him.

I had some ideas about buying out my siblings and having a place to store an extra car and maybe one of my kids could remain there. I had no illusions about it becoming some shangri-la, but maybe just remaining stable. Just before X-mas last year, the house across the street was firebombed. We were pretty sure that the young man in there was a drug dealer but he actually seemed like a nice kid. My son had talked to him a few times. Anyways, just this past March, I was on vacation in Florida and my son calls me up and tells me that some Detroit detectives stopped by and told him that a couple of days before the place was set on fire, they pulled two dead bodies out of that house.
The scrappers showed up within a month or so after the fire and were doing what they do. Now they're working on the house a couple of doors down in broad daylight with no repercussions. How can this be?! I mean, this is some scary stuff. Dead bodies?! Arson?! We are actually scared. My son is scared. My younger brother, only half kidding says we should just abandon the place, to hell with it. But that would be a terrible thing to do to the neighbors on either side who are great people and helped my mom out a lot. My son is planning on moving back in with me until he can find something else. I'm going to stay there every other night just to have somebody in there until we sell it.

It's just so sad. I saw Duggan on TV the other day talking about trying to have people move back into the city but I don't know how that's ever going to happen with the way things actually are.

[7miledog]

Ghetto culture destroyed it? This is our grandparents' narrative. I thought we understood now that when people of means withdraw their resources -- whether it's because of racism or because of criminal lending practices -- neighborhoods get disinvested. To blame "ghetto culture" for the decline is like blaming your cold on a cough.

I'm sorry, but I call bullsh*t on this statement. "When people of means withdraw their resources" gives people an excuse to live like animals? Poverty or a lack of resources is no excuse for a lack of pride. THAT is the narrative of our grandparents; have pride in how you live. Yes, unfortunately, ghetto culture did destroy this city.

[daveyarm]

I just moved Downtown at age 71 after 45 years in the suburbs. Call me naive [[or evangelical!), but I'm lovin' it!

[Detroitnerd]

Welcome downtown, daveyarm!

[Goose]

blame the victim.... or george bush....

[poobert]

blame the victim.... or george bush....

And what about the victims he left behind here?

EEV may not be West Bloomfield, but it isn't the ghetto. And there are hundreds - thousands - of us here who work hard every day maintaining our property [[even though he acted like he was the only one) and being good neighbors [[which is the vast majority of people here). We have 100 - 200 concerned residents at the neighborhood meeting every month. Let me be clear: he didn't shut off the lights when he left.

Then dude goes and pitches a fit because he paid too much for his house. You know it is extremely hard to battle all the negative attention Detroit gets and to let people know we live in a decent area. Then he goes and shits all over our name on the internet. Well thanks, that is really just what we need. Good luck, buddy. Glad while you were crashing and burning you had to take us down with you.

[Islandman]

This is exactly what I wonder as well. How do you break that cycle? While there are many Metro Detroiters that love and want the city to improve, there is simply a large portion [[don't know if it's a majority), on both sides of 8 Mile, that do not care what happens here.

[Det_ard]

Just curious, how many years have you stayed in EEV now, Poobert?

[poobert]

Just curious, how many years have you stayed in EEV now, Poobert?

Three. Maybe I'm the among new lowlife neighbors he's talking about

Overall I like it. I'm far more tired of the city/region [[as all my grousing posts illustrate) than the neighborhood.

[canuck]

I detect in a lot of the above posts the definition of ghettoized, disenfranchised people, and it is that these people are ignored. When I was young, I had a difficult time understanding the meaning of "The Invisible Man" by James Baldwin; a very controversial title: now I am a bit more attuned to his expression of life for a negro in the forties and fifties.

There is a continual dismissal of poor black americans in all cities, and this brings about the kind of ignorance of wider society, fear and lack of potential in dealing with given codes of behavior. This kind of thing has a long standing, Black america has always been caricatured in baffling ways, and with time it has also managed to caricature itself in very negative regressive ways.

[iheartthed]

I detect in a lot of the above posts the definition of ghettoized, disenfranchised people, and it is that these people are ignored. When I was young, I had a difficult time understanding the meaning of "The Invisible Man" by James Baldwin; a very controversial title: now I am a bit more attuned to his expression of life for a negro in the forties and fifties.

There is a continual dismissal of poor black americans in all cities, and this brings about the kind of ignorance of wider society, fear and lack of potential in dealing with given codes of behavior. This kind of thing has a long standing, Black america has always been caricatured in baffling ways, and with time it has also managed to caricature itself in very negative regressive ways.

You mean Ralph Ellison... But great book and you are spot on in tying it into this discussion. I'm almost finished with another book titled Some of My Best Friends are Black by Tanner Colby, that also takes a hard look at the "Invisible Man syndrome" but it's not fiction like Invisible Man and it's written from a white person's perspective. It's a pretty extensive examination of how government policies and institutionalized racism has created such a racially segregated society in this country. That indirectly explains a lot of how Detroit ended up as it is today... I say indirectly because it's not specifically about Detroit, but a lot of the issues in it are things that have afflicted the city.

[canuck]

You mean Ralph Ellison... But great book and you are spot on in tying it into this discussion. I'm almost finished with another book titled Some of My Best Friends are Black by Tanner Colby, that also takes a hard look at the "Invisible Man syndrome" but it's not fiction like Invisible Man and it's written from a white person's perspective. It's a pretty extensive examination of how government policies and institutionalized racism has created such a racially segregated society in this country. That indirectly explains a lot of how Detroit ended up as it is today... I say indirectly because it's not specifically about Detroit, but a lot of the issues in it are things that have afflicted the city.

Yes, sorry about the mistake. I think that Detroit paid a heavy price; all of it for segregation of all kinds, including industrial imperatives steamrolling residential neighborhoods like that at Poletown or for highways and such. But the sadness is that the tail end of that story looks more like an insolvable puzzle. But it somehow has to be solved, the economic and social disparities, the iniquity, the criminal behavior, and the overall self-damnation of a ghettoized community.

[313WX]

As an eastsider myself, much of what he says is true.

The absolute devastation that has happened on the eastside is borderline criminal.

Take a random drive down Davison, Harper, Chalmers, Van Dyke, etc. With the exception of EEV and Indian Village, VERY little of value is left.

Even in the far NE neighborhoods [[bordering Warren, Eastpointe, Harper Woods, etc.), you'll find nothing but blocks lined with abandoned homes that will likely never be occupied again.