Detroit's Chinatown

[Thruster315]

Bottom line - A Chinatown can't be designed. It will happen organically, and, just like the original Chinatowns were, be built by real Chinese people, where they already live, work, and shop. Its businesses, if they are to survive, will cater to the modern Chinese consumer. That means a new Chinatown, if it happens at all, will be an indoor Asian mall in Troy. Not in Midtown.

I couldn't agree more. Trying to force it or luring people in just isn't going to happen. Look at our very own Mexicantown and Greektown. None of these areas were planned. They just organically happened because a particular ethnicity decided to band together in those areas for comfort, security and more than likely- it was cheap for mass families to move in and work.

And maybe I'm too young to remember any "glory" that Detroit's Chinatown might've had back in the day. Where was the glory other than a few Chinese restaurants? Did I blink and miss something???

[poobert]

Yes it was supposed to be called either Africa Town, or African Village.

This did indeed come to fruition. The Harmonie Park area was rechristened "Paradise Valley." The area is by no means a destination, though it is pleasant, it is essentially exactly the same as it was before it got renamed. The only difference is there is now a regular revolving door now of subsidized African-American-owned businesses.

Of course, this shows the forsight of our leadership. Throw up some streetscape signs and pretend it is an ethnic enclave. And we wonder why nothing in the city work?

[gthomas]

It's all about marketing and catering to what we want to patronize. It has to be an exciting district and relatively known for good food, atmosphere, nightlife, and other attractions. Have commercials showing a positive enclaves of things happening in the district, let people know how it is worth a trip.

I know multiple of people that lives in the city proper that has never set foot i)n Paradise Valley, Mexicantown, and rarely Greektown ...let alone heard of it. Anything can become an attraction if you market it right and promote it.

[leapfrog]

When I think of "charming" small communities in Metro Detroit, I think of Romeo, New Baltimore, Clarkston, and Holly, which all are really way on the outskirts of what most normal people would consider Metro Detroit. Maybe you could throw in Ann Arbor [[though it has over 100,000 people, it feels like a small town in many ways), but that's a pretty good trip, also.

I would say that sprawl and suburban development took a lot of the charm out of places like Ferndale and Royal Oak. Are they good if you want a place where you can eat moderately expensive food and barhop for a couple blocks? Sure. It meets the needs of the region quite well in that regard. But could they ever really be considered tourists destinations? Would anyone ever say they were charmed by Royal Oak? What happens when they hit 13 & Coolidge?

I'm curious what people think about this...

What is considered "charming" is certainly debatable since everyone has an opinion as to what is and is not charming to them. However, I think Ferndale cannot be accused of "sprawl" or "suburban development" - there isn't any appreciable space left in the city that is undeveloped. What is developed was done years [[decades) ago. It's not like there are Mcmansions and new subs being put in Ferndale.
Personally, I find Ferndale "charming" since its a small community, where I feel welcome and where people try to get to know each other and talk to each other. It always has a very friendly vibe to me, and generally speaking when there is trouble, the person behind is is not from Ferndale proper. I say this being friends with both the Mayor and Police Chief of Ferndale.

I have an admitted pro Ferndale bias as it is one of my favorite places in the Metro area.

[poobert]

What is considered "charming" is certainly debatable since everyone has an opinion as to what is and is not charming to them. However, I think Ferndale cannot be accused of "sprawl" or "suburban development" - there isn't any appreciable space left in the city that is undeveloped. What is developed was done years [[decades) ago. It's not like there are Mcmansions and new subs being put in Ferndale.
Personally, I find Ferndale "charming" since its a small community, where I feel welcome and where people try to get to know each other and talk to each other. It always has a very friendly vibe to me, and generally speaking when there is trouble, the person behind is is not from Ferndale proper. I say this being friends with both the Mayor and Police Chief of Ferndale.

I have an admitted pro Ferndale bias as it is one of my favorite places in the Metro area.

I get what you're saying, and you're right, I think. These are all the reasons so many young people are finding a home in Ferndale. But Ferndale is the quintessential post-war suburb [[granted, immediate post-war). Just because it doesn't have McMansions doesn't mean it isn't suburban. We just have very little development in the region that isn't suburban.

I get the appeal but I think think nain rouge is more spot on. As he said, Ferndale is really a couple blocks of bars and restaurants up Woodward and then some generally not great housing stock down the sidestreets, and that's about it. Woodward is also massive, greatly diminishing any really comfortable or natural feeling of walkability. Again, if you took somebody from a another major city or a small town there they might like it well enough but I doubt they'd find it "charming"

I went to downtown Northville a while back, which was beautiful, but we had to blast our way through endless stretches of McMansions down 50 mile per hour Mile Roads that people went 70 through to get to a tiny downtown. Overall, not a very charmed experience - and certainly nothing resembling that of a small-town.

[Wheels]

I went to downtown Northville a while back, which was beautiful, but we had to blast our way through endless stretches of McMansions down 50 mile per hour Mile Roads that people went 70 through to get to a tiny downtown. Overall, not a very charmed experience - and certainly nothing resembling that of a small-town.

Next time try taking Hines Drive. It is a much more pleasant experience.

[Islandman]

It's all about marketing and catering to what we want to patronize. It has to be an exciting district and relatively known for good food, atmosphere, nightlife, and other attractions. Have commercials showing a positive enclaves of things happening in the district, let people know how it is worth a trip.

I know multiple of people that lives in the city proper that has never set foot i)n Paradise Valley, Mexicantown, and rarely Greektown ...let alone heard of it. Anything can become an attraction if you market it right and promote it.

As has already been said, it has to happen organically. If not, it is going to be some generic, superficial garbage.

That is why Mexicantown is still successful. If you look at Greektown though, the authenticity of that part of town has been decimated. If people in Detroit haven't been to either, it is not because of marketing, it is because of ignorance.

[Bham1982]

But Ferndale is the quintessential post-war suburb [[granted, immediate post-war). Just because it doesn't have McMansions doesn't mean it isn't suburban.

Ferndale may be "suburban", but then Detroit proper is suburban. There's almost no difference in density or built form.

And I don't think of Ferndale as a quintessential postwar suburb. It's anything but. Someplace like Sterling Heights, North Warren, or Livonia would fit the bill of 50's-era postwar expansion.

Ferndale was sizable town well before WWII. Really the entire Woodward corridor in Oakland County was established and populated before WWII.

[MidTownMs]

As has already been said, it has to happen organically. If not, it is going to be some generic, superficial garbage.

That is why Mexicantown is still successful. If you look at Greektown though, the authenticity of that part of town has been decimated. If people in Detroit haven't been to either, it is not because of marketing, it is because of ignorance.

Why do people have to be ignorant just because they have never been to Mexicantown or Greektown?

[Islandman]

ig·no·rance/ˈignərəns/

Noun:

Lack of knowledge or information.

In this case I am using the denotative meaning vs. the connotative meaning most people use in daily discourse.


I have met some people that have no idea that Mexicantown or Greektown exists. Neither started as tourist traps or needed marketing to exist, they grew organically.

It is quite interesting to me all the writeup that Corktown gets, for example, while a community that has quietly thrived in the last few decades does not get all of the fanfare [[Mexicantown).

If only Slows would have opened up on Vernor.

[rex]

didn't someone try to make a generic asian town off Jefferson?

Is where chinatown used to be still cracktown or is it getting better?

[313WX]

I get what you're saying, and you're right, I think. These are all the reasons so many young people are finding a home in Ferndale. But Ferndale is the quintessential post-war suburb [[granted, immediate post-war). Just because it doesn't have McMansions doesn't mean it isn't suburban. We just have very little development in the region that isn't suburban.

I get the appeal but I think think nain rouge is more spot on. As he said, Ferndale is really a couple blocks of bars and restaurants up Woodward and then some generally not great housing stock down the sidestreets, and that's about it. Woodward is also massive, greatly diminishing any really comfortable or natural feeling of walkability. Again, if you took somebody from a another major city or a small town there they might like it well enough but I doubt they'd find it "charming"

I went to downtown Northville a while back, which was beautiful, but we had to blast our way through endless stretches of McMansions down 50 mile per hour Mile Roads that people went 70 through to get to a tiny downtown. Overall, not a very charmed experience - and certainly nothing resembling that of a small-town.

My point was when Detroiters visit other cities, you're almost always in their downtown areas or their proper cities.

When people come to Detroit, they're almost always in the suburbs.

That's really Detroit's problem, not poor marketing,

[Király]

My point was when Detroiters visit other cities, you're almost always in their downtown areas or their proper cities.

When people come to Detroit, they're almost always in the suburbs.

When I paid my 2-day visit to the Metro Detroit area last summer, I spent the entirety of my stay within the city limits, except for about 2 hours in Highland Park, and about 5 minutes in Grosse Pointe Park. Every dollar I spent was spent in Detroit.

Detroit really is the fun side of 8 Mile.

[MidTownMs]

didn't someone try to make a generic asian town off Jefferson?

Is where chinatown used to be still cracktown or is it getting better?

Earlier post

Has anybody mentioned or even remember Asian Village that was down from the Renaissance Center? It lasted for about one year. I think the developer got in trouble with the IRS.

[Planner3357]

When I paid my 2-day visit to the Metro Detroit area last summer, I spent the entirety of my stay within the city limits, except for about 2 hours in Highland Park, and about 5 minutes in Grosse Pointe Park. Every dollar I spent was spent in Detroit.

Detroit really is the fun side of 8 Mile.

I'm sorry you spent so much time in H.P. and so little in Grosse Pointe Park.

[casscorridor]

Ferndale may be "suburban", but then Detroit proper is suburban. There's almost no difference in density or built form.

Calling the built form of Ferndale and Detroit the same is an over generalization. Certainly there are vast swaths of the city that are identical but there are also many older, denser areas of the city closer to the core.

[EastsideAl]

Detroit's "organic", Chinatown was the one that stood on the the streets off of Third south of Michigan Ave. Where today, well, not much of anything stands. In fact, little has been there since the "slum" of Chinatown, and other nearby "shabby" neighborhoods, were cleared out as part of the urban renewal efforts accompanying the building of the Lodge Fwy.

A new "International Village" [[sound familiar?) was promised by the city to replace the old Chinatown on the same site. But it was never built. Instead buildings and land were purchased in a "better" area, and Detroit's New Chinatown was started right there at the soon-to-be-beautiful corner of Cass and Peterboro.

The site is going through one of its periodic phases where it won't let me post any pictures, but there are just a few pictures of Detroit's original Chinatown on the WSU Virtual Motor City site. Just search for "Chinese."

[Django]

I just miss Chungs huge delicious eggrolls cause damn they were good, but at least I can buy my heroin on that corner.

[Hermod]

If you build a "Chinatown" for the tourists and the poseurs who like to pretend they are so chic on ethnic foods, it will be nothing other than a Potemkin Village. A true Chinatown should be largely Chinese with just a smattering of non-Asian visitors. The teas shops, karaoke studios, and billiard parlors should be places where you see the younger Chinese gather on Saturdays. Eden Center near Washington fills this bill.

[gthomas]

Does the area have plans for redevelopment, I will like it to be build upon with residential and commercial buildings. Who owns those several buildings/lots along Cass, Peterboro, Third, etc..?

[laphoque]

The lot behind Mantra is up for auction by Wayne County. So is that car repair shop [[if memory serves) north of Canine to Five.

[Detroitej72]

If you build a "Chinatown" for the tourists and the poseurs who like to pretend they are so chic on ethnic foods, it will be nothing other than a Potemkin Village.

Or like the failed "Asian Village" on the riverfront, east of the RenCen, which basically consisted of a parking structure with a few artificial eastern themed restaurants on the ground level.