Detroit's Chinatown

[Neilr]

The biggest Chinatowns in the U.S. don't receive any tourism. The biggest, by far, are Monterey Park [[east of LA) and Flushing, Queens. These two places [[and Sunset Park, Brooklyn is close behind) make Manhattan, Toronto, or SF Chinatowns look like tiny tourist trap potemkin villages.

Flushing is more of an urban-style Chinatown, but different from the traditional Chinatowns. It looks more like a mini-Hong Kong. Very glassy and glitzy new money style. ...

The Queens [[NYC) Council of the Arts published A Guide to Communities along the #7 Train in 2005. It describes which ethnic enclaves are centered at each of the stops of the #7 train. My first scan is of the front and back covers which includes a map of the #7's route. The next 2 scans are of the Flushing neighborhood. [[Sorry for the poor quality of my scans.)

[gthomas]

Wow! I have to visit there, nice district it seems.

[Planner3357]

The Chinese don't "look like us" so they can "hit 8-Mile". Too sad, too bad. It is happening to the Philadelphia and Washington, DC Chinatowns as well. They are moving to the suburbs to get away from the crime.

I don't know about Philly. I've been living here for 4+ months and Chinatown seems pretty vibrant and safe. Located pretty much in Center City.

[nain rouge]

When I think of "charming" small communities in Metro Detroit, I think of Romeo, New Baltimore, Clarkston, and Holly, which all are really way on the outskirts of what most normal people would consider Metro Detroit. Maybe you could throw in Ann Arbor [[though it has over 100,000 people, it feels like a small town in many ways), but that's a pretty good trip, also.

I would say that sprawl and suburban development took a lot of the charm out of places like Ferndale and Royal Oak. Are they good if you want a place where you can eat moderately expensive food and barhop for a couple blocks? Sure. It meets the needs of the region quite well in that regard. But could they ever really be considered tourists destinations? Would anyone ever say they were charmed by Royal Oak? What happens when they hit 13 & Coolidge?

I'm curious what people think about this...

[Fulcanelli]

What actually happened to our Chinatown, how other districts survived?

Ah, I remember those days when Cass was a little Chinatown, though very little. John R north of 13 Mile and further up seem to have small centers of Chinese businesses, but definitely nothing centralized. I doubt you can get those businesses to move down to Detroit since their customer base is up there.

[iheartthed]

The biggest Chinatowns in the U.S. don't receive any tourism. The biggest, by far, are Monterey Park [[east of LA) and Flushing, Queens. These two places [[and Sunset Park, Brooklyn is close behind) make Manhattan, Toronto, or SF Chinatowns look like tiny tourist trap potemkin villages.

Flushing is more of an urban-style Chinatown, but different from the traditional Chinatowns. It looks more like a mini-Hong Kong. Very glassy and glitzy new money style. Monterey Park is similar, but in a suburban format [[strip malls, tract homes, but fairly dense for a suburb).

NYC, LA, Toronto, and the Bay Area all have many Chinatowns scattered about. For NYC, I can think of at least six [[Manhattan, Sunset Park, Avenue U, 18th Avenue, Flushing, Elmhurst).

I'm pretty sure that neither Flushing or Sunset Park is larger than Manhattan's, if you measure by the number of Chinese owned businesses. Those other areas probably do have more Chinese residents than Manhattan's but that's not what makes a "Chinatown".

[rex]

Wonder how many people live in those apartment buildings that remain in the area. Ive been in a couple. Pretty shady IMO. Could it be a thousand? 700? Sort of crazy. There is money and momentum downtown and in midtown and in the center of it all is Peterboro.

[Detroitdave]

I was listening to NPR not long ago and they were doing a story on chinatowns and SF came up . Even SF china town is changing . they interview the older people living there and they said most of the younger people move away.It seems they want new and bigger houses and also to move away from the stereotype that living in china town gives.
I guess it's just a matter of time and taste ?

[Danny]

Chinatown will never re-sprout in Detroit ever again. Most Chinese families in Detroit are in Midtown enclaves and keeping up with the mom and pop owned cleaners, chop sueys and beauty and barber surpluses. They do a proud service in black Detroit ghettohoods and will not leave those areas any time soon. Some of their businesses will pass on to their children. We have a new Chinatown now and its at John R Rd. from 12 to 14 Mile Rd. in Madison Heights. It would bring a beacon of hope to Chinese and other Asia families who will make a stand in North Central Oakland County area.

[DetroitPlanner]

I was listening to NPR not long ago and they were doing a story on chinatowns and SF came up . Even SF china town is changing . they interview the older people living there and they said most of the younger people move away.It seems they want new and bigger houses and also to move away from the stereotype that living in china town gives.
I guess it's just a matter of time and taste ?

Kids are kids. They are fickle and want to live in their own environment, not their grandparents. As I mentioned before this is just change. You can't stop it.

[Danny]

Originally Posted by Bham1982 "The biggest Chinatowns in the U.S. don't receive any tourism. The biggest, by far, are Monterey Park [[east of LA) and Flushing, Queens. These two places [[and Sunset Park, Brooklyn is close behind) make Manhattan, Toronto, or SF Chinatowns look like tiny tourist trap potemkin villages.

Flushing is more of an urban-style Chinatown, but different from the traditional Chinatowns. It looks more like a mini-Hong Kong. Very glassy and glitzy new money style. ..."

Not true! New York City's Chinatown recieved millions of dollars in tourism every year. Other bigger Chinatown's in the United States cities get more tourism. Even when the Chinese New Year comes in. To the yuppified hip cool skinny jeaned young adults, going to Chinatowns during the Chinese New Year its like going to the Mardi Gras.

[MidTownMs]

Kids are kids. They are fickle and want to live in their own environment, not their grandparents. As I mentioned before this is just change. You can't stop it.

That's so true...as soon as I graduated high school in the 60's I left Detroit and didn't stop until I saw the Pacific. The only only reason I went back to Detroit in 1998 was because I could never get my parents to move and by then they were too old to move. They both died in 2010 and April 2012 I left Detroit and headed west again landing in Santa Fe, NM and loving it. Speaking of Chinatown Detroit, I went to Forbidden City the night of my prom in 1966.

[iheartthed]

I was listening to NPR not long ago and they were doing a story on chinatowns and SF came up . Even SF china town is changing . they interview the older people living there and they said most of the younger people move away.It seems they want new and bigger houses and also to move away from the stereotype that living in china town gives.
I guess it's just a matter of time and taste ?

Why would anyone expect the children of immigrants to be as invested in Chinatown as the actual immigrants themselves? The future of Chinatown is completely tied to the pipeline of immigrants coming from China to those areas.

[Patrick]

What part of the Asian scene has largely moved out into the suburbs is false? Have you ever been to Eden Center out at Seven Corners? Have you traveled through the commercial parts of Annandale? My wife is Chinese and I have schlepped through about every Asian shopping district in suburban Maryland and Virginia. In the 1980s, the grocery stores and schlock shops were bailing out of the DC Chinatown. Many of the Chinese owners in the Eden Center used to have places downtown.

Considering I now live in NoVA...Hermod is correct regarding DC's Chinatown. Eden Center out in Falls Chruch is it's own lil Hanoi...yes, it's a strip mall, but it has that "Chinatown" vibe to it, even if it has a massive parking lot in front.

[astongraham]

I was thinking, how great of an attraction will it be to see a Chinatown in Midtown? With development plans north and south of Peterboro and Cass Ave, I feel this can really transform that area back to its glory days. I will like to see authentic Chinese restaurants, retail, and residential living surrounding the area. Increase diversity, create an exciting restaurant district, and embrace residency.

What actually happened to our Chinatown, how other districts survived? Having visit San fransico Chinatown and Chicago's recently, I've seen possibility of seeing the same here. Is this feasible?

Like stated before, Detroit once had a pretty thriving Chinatown back in the day. Something such as that usually sprout up organically, people of common ethnicity or origin huddle together to create a thriving community based on support, yadda yadda. What im getting at is how do you "create" a chinatown and not have it pretty much a tourist trap and not based on a true chinatown? You cant build an area and say "this is where Chinese people will live". You cant extend tax breaks to its formation because it's based on ethnicity. Didn't city council create a stink several years ago with the idea of an all black business district? Wasn't it shot down with the quickness soon after?

[astongraham]

oh yeah, nothing gets built in Detroit without MASSIVE government subsidies.

[Hermod]

Considering I now live in NoVA...Hermod is correct regarding DC's Chinatown. Eden Center out in Falls Chruch is it's own lil Hanoi...yes, it's a strip mall, but it has that "Chinatown" vibe to it, even if it has a massive parking lot in front.

It isn't "Little hanoi", it is "Little Cholon" [[the Chinese area of Saigon). Most of the stores in there are owned by ethinic Chinese from Vietnam. You can speak Cantonese in Eden Center just as easily as you could speak Vietnamese. They slowly bought up the strip mall and now have developed and built outparcels and a gate which somewhat obscures and encloses the parking lot.

The nice part about Eden Center, is that it is not full of tourists pretending to take joy in eating ethnic food. Most of the white people you see in there are men with Asian wives. Occasionally, you will see a pair of clueless suburban moms looking for "that perfect piece for my house" [[for which they will overpay because most of the stuff in the schlock shops can be had at about 60% of the asking price [[when you have a ferocious bargainer like my wife).

[MidTownMs]

Like stated before, Detroit once had a pretty thriving Chinatown back in the day. Something such as that usually sprout up organically, people of common ethnicity or origin huddle together to create a thriving community based on support, yadda yadda. What im getting at is how do you "create" a chinatown and not have it pretty much a tourist trap and not based on a true chinatown? You cant build an area and say "this is where Chinese people will live". You cant extend tax breaks to its formation because it's based on ethnicity. Didn't city council create a stink several years ago with the idea of an all black business district? Wasn't it shot down with the quickness soon after?

Yes it was supposed to be called either Africa Town, or African Village.

[douglasm]

So help me, any time anyone even thinks of trying to "rebuild" or "create" an enclave community, my first thought is Plum Street.

[MidTownMs]

So help me, any time anyone even thinks of trying to "rebuild" or "create" an enclave community, my first thought is Plum Street.

OMG...Plum Street!!!! Now that's truly a Blast from the Past!!!

[Király]

It's not gonna happen.

I live in Vancouver, the city with the largest % of Chinese in North America, and with the second largest Chinatown [[San Francisco being 1st) in North America. Ripe conditions for the city's Chinatown, right? Wrong. It's dying.

Chinatowns spring up around areas where Chinese people live. Ours dates from the 1880s, as Chinese settlers moved in to the area after they finished building the inland railroads. As the Chinese population grew, so did Chinatown.

But eventually, Chinese stopped settling in Chinatown and its surrounding neighbourhoods. Chinese immigrants were no longer penniless labourers. Increasingly they were highly educated, business oriented, and wealthy. They didn't want anything to do with Chinatown, which they saw as a haven for the poor classes. So they moved on to other city neighbourhoods and to the suburbs, and established their homes and businesses there. By the mid-1980s, Chinatown was in decline, as fewer and fewer Chinese were living and shopping in the area, and as indoor, air-conditioned Chinese shopping malls were opening up in the suburbs, with all of the services Chinatown had to offer, with plenty of parking, and without the rain. Business that remained in Chinatown struggled, both because of competition in the suburbs, and the inability or unwillingness of proprietors to adapt to the area's changing demographic.

Despite efforts of the local government to preserve Chinatown's authenticity, it becomes less and less authentic all the time. Hipsters are moving in and bringing their coffee joints, bookstores, pizza slice joints, and high rents with them. The remaining Chinese in the neighbourhood are being squeezed out, since they are dying off, and can hardly afford the gentrifying neighbourhood's rising rents. The neighbourhood is gentrifying and changing, much like Detroit's midtown.

Bottom line - A Chinatown can't be designed. It will happen organically, and, just like the original Chinatowns were, be built by real Chinese people, where they already live, work, and shop. Its businesses, if they are to survive, will cater to the modern Chinese consumer. That means a new Chinatown, if it happens at all, will be an indoor Asian mall in Troy. Not in Midtown.

[MidTownMs]

Has anybody mentioned or even remember Asian Village that was down from the Renaissance Center? I think it was open for about a year. I think the developer got in trouble with the IRS.

[douglasm]

MidTownMs....
......Plum Street is a good example of what happens when you try to "create" a community. Like Kiraly and many other posters have said, it has to develop organically. You can't throw some paint and paper lanterns at a couple of blocks and have a Chinatown, in the same way you couldn't throw some paint and weekend hippies at a couple of blocks near downtown and have an "Arts Community".

[GUSHI]

The kids of immigrants mostly move on, how many poles in hamtramck, not as many as warren or sterling heights, people move

[Bham1982]

I live in Vancouver, the city with the largest % of Chinese in North America, and with the second largest Chinatown [[San Francisco being 1st) in North America. Ripe conditions for the city's Chinatown, right? Wrong. It's dying.

The original tourist-trap Chinatowns are dying. The newer Chinatowns are booming. Y

ou're in Vancouver, so I'm sure you have Chinese ethnoburbs like LA. Or come to the East Coast, where you can see an urban, booming new Chinatown, in Flushing, Queens. Flushing makes the old Chinatowns look ridiculous.