Downtown Development Rumor [corner of Broadway and Grand River]

**Eber Brock Ward** · November-01-12, 11:19 AM

I would rather have more centralized garages and then allow the surface lots to develop.

This right here.

**adamjab19** · November-01-12, 11:33 AM

Rumour has it he is saving the residential plan for an open space in front of this building....

But seriously I'm sure Gilbert has all this figured out for the next ten years or so, all part of some big grand plan.

**Spartan** · November-01-12, 11:38 AM

Originally Posted by adamjab19

Rumour has it he is saving the residential plan for an open space in front of this building....

But seriously I'm sure Gilbert has all this figured out for the next ten years or so, all part of some big grand plan.

I'd love to see the "master plan" that Gilbert/Rock/Bedrock have drawn up for downtown. I'm sure they have some sort of 5/10 year plan.

**southen** · November-01-12, 11:51 AM

broadway right there needs residents, not a giant parking structure. if there was a plan for residential on top then i would say ok but this is incredibly disappointing. my only hope is that this lot here prevents him from turning the hudsons block into another giant structure. oh well.

**Gistok** · November-01-12, 12:09 PM

Originally Posted by Shollin

For a city that is over 40% vacant, people sure do complain about the development that does happen. When was the last time a new structure was built downtown? Greektown hotel? Comerica tower in 1993? People act as if no other city has parking garages. I would rather have more centralized garages and then allow the surface lots to develop.

One of the newest downtown parking structures is west of the RenCen [[that red one) that had on its' first floor a concept called "Asian Village"... a failed venture that didn't last too long [[opened circa 2006)...
http://youtu.be/RrY07MqoAi0

Also, as thoughtful as having retail on the first floor of this new parking deck might seem... it's not exactly "thoughtfulness" involved... city ordinance REQUIRES all new parking decks in the CBD to have 1st floor retail/commercial space, whether there is a demand for it or not...

Another relatively recent parking structure is the Detroit Opera House Parking Garage, which although it does have retail space along Broadway... it took a long time to fill it. Also, it suffers from not having any 1st floor retail/commercial space along the Centre St. side of the structure near Harmonie Park, across from the Milner Hotel [[soon Condos). That really makes the very short Centre St. a very dead street.

**cramerro** · November-01-12, 12:23 PM

I agree that this is a bit dissapointing relative to more retail or housing, but this makes sense. It is located within a few blocks of all of his buildings, most of which do not have a lot of parking. There is a comment in the press release that it provides badly needed parking... which is a laugher in the context of downtown-wide parking. However, the point is made and is valid: they park off site and are bussed in now. My SMART bus goes past the MGM garage, there are dozens if not hundreds who park in that garage and hop on Quicken-chartered shuttle buses and get dropped at the doors of whatever building they work in. Having parking in this new location will create a ton of extra foot traffic, if not just at the AM and PM rush, between the deck of 1,300 spaces and the various Bedrock Empire facilities.

**leady106** · November-01-12, 01:09 PM

I also wish this project had a residential component but I am glad that it is an infill buidling taking over surface lots. This part of downtown seems to be scaled for more midrise residential units along with the potential for pedestrian friendly retail. This structure will be at a good location near the terminus of Gratiot, close to a people mover station and near the heart of downtown. It will also complete a city block's work of street walls that should help connect various part of downtown with an increase in street level activity. Hopefully the increase in residential units will continue with the renovation of existing structure including the upper floors of existing nearby retail buildings.

**gnome** · November-01-12, 01:12 PM

Originally Posted by southen

broadway right there needs residents, not a giant parking structure. if there was a plan for residential on top then i would say ok but this is incredibly disappointing. my only hope is that this lot here prevents him from turning the hudsons block into another giant structure. oh well.

ryan, this building will be built on Library and Gratiot, not Broadway. Next to that Cuban place and across the street from the Skillman Library.

In point of fact, this building will be built on the site of the old Library Hotel. IIRC, the Library Hotel was demolished in the late 1950's or early '60's. I had an old dead uncle that ran the hotel in the Gay '90's.

not that there is anything wrong with that.

The way I see it, another surface lot is gone, the sacred street wall is restored, retail opportunities are presented for small businesses. New space for retailers who won't have to deal with old wiring, dodgy plumbing or any number of other issues that people consider when they think about opening a business. We all love Detroit, but it is a problem child, and if a new building can lure someone down to glean a little Quicken dough, that is good.

Gistok's valued point that retail doesn't work on the first floor of parking structures might not have considered all the corruption that f-ed up Asian Village. Just yesterday a man was sentenced to a couple of years of federal tennis camp for hauling sacks of dirty fifties over to Derrick Miller. That entire situation with who owns the space and who can lease it out has been tied up with the bankruptcy of GM and with the Miller Parking Concession.

**Flintoid** · November-01-12, 01:13 PM

The rendering shows retail facing Library, but will there also be retail facing Broadway?

**gnome** · November-01-12, 01:16 PM

It is a completely different building, on a different lot, that has no physical connection to Broadway. The thread title is misleading and while there may be a development on Broadway in the future, this ain't it.

**rb336** · November-01-12, 01:24 PM

Originally Posted by southen

broadway right there needs residents, not a giant parking structure.

Parking structures are "necessary evils" for development in urban areas. I would definitely prefer them with first floor retail and upper floor residential with four-season pools

**Flintoid** · November-01-12, 01:38 PM

gnome the description of the "Z" development defines it as stretching in a Z pattern across those two surface parking lots from Broadway and Grand River to Library and Gratiot.

**Gistok** · November-01-12, 01:39 PM

Gnome, yeah, I forgot about the corruption part of the Asian Village venture [[wasn't there also a lot of meal freebies that were given to owners friends). Probably a contributing factor to the decline of Asian Village was location. Like the RenCen itself... this site was some distance from true downtown Detroit. Perhaps when more density is built in that area... then ventures in that building would have a better chance.

**Wheels** · November-01-12, 01:46 PM

Originally Posted by gnome

It is a completely different building, on a different lot, that has no physical connection to Broadway. The thread title is misleading and while there may be a development on Broadway in the future, this ain't it.

The structure will zigzag from the corner of Broadway and East Grand River to the corner of Library and Gratiot, occupying what is now a surface parking lot. Hence "Z" shape.

**Mackinaw** · November-01-12, 01:47 PM

I guess this is how you hedge against the increasing likelihood of no transit.

Having said that, I like gnome's post and the count-your-blessings/one-less-surface-lot approach. A giant parking deck that is suitable for sports/theatre crowds and workers/residents thanks to that fine location should deal a blow to the surface lot operators of the greater Harmonie Park area, hopefully turning at least one or two of the owners towards the thought of physical development being the best use of their site.

And yes, it is somewhat of a street wall, and will provide space for economic activity on the ground. I applaud that and look forward to seeing what this will complement vis-a-vis development on the Hudson Block.

I really hope that the vision for the Hudson Block permits something other than a superblock, one-piece development. I know we all treat it as one block and know what was there before, but it will be so much better if it is not a superstructure, but rather multiple structures. I cannot be the first to have proposed this here, but a subdivision of the plot, or [especially] the creation of a new east-west street right through the middle of it, would be perfect.

Shollin · November-01-12, 02:10 PM

Even cities with the best public transit have parking garages. Most places with good public transit have less than 50% utilization rates. Most people drive and still need somewhere to park.

**401don** · November-01-12, 02:18 PM

Are all of the retail spaces next to Vicente's still empty? I would like a plan to cover the 10 new spaces with artwork also in a manner that doesn't just look like more empty retail, at least until they are actually leased.

**gnome** · November-01-12, 02:18 PM

Originally Posted by Flintoid

gnome the description of the "Z" development defines it as stretching in a Z pattern across those two surface parking lots from Broadway and Grand River to Library and Gratiot.

Flintoid and Wheels : Thank you for correcting me. My incorrect assumption was based on the rendering, I should have read the news release closer and not gone straight to the supplied artist drawing.

With this Z configuration, wouldn't that close down the alley access for the existing businesses on Library? -Or - would that mean we would have a new 'alley jumper' like the old Fine Arts/Adams theater?

again, thank you for the correction.

**Gistok** · November-01-12, 02:24 PM

Originally Posted by Mackinaw

I cannot be the first to have proposed this here, but a subdivision of the plot, or [especially] the creation of a new east-west street right through the middle of it, would be perfect.

Mackinaw... I know you weren't thinking of it this when you posted... but to subdivide that block would corrupt the built existing "Woodward Plan" of 1806... so I would not mind subdividing the street with separate buildings... but not with a roadway....

**gnome** · November-01-12, 05:15 PM

Not sure if I can paste this but there are a few pix on the wsu virtual library that has a few pix of library street in the 1940s

http://dlxs.lib.wayne.edu/cgi/i/imag...y=1;view=image

**gnome** · November-01-12, 05:17 PM

From the above pic it looks like everyone on that block is having a going-out-business sale. Urban renewal?

**gnome** · November-01-12, 05:31 PM

Overhead shot of the skillman library. Looks like the photo was taken from atop the old Hudson's building. In the upper left you can see a very attractive parking garage. I think I remember, The Rock mentioned he use to park there.

http://dlxs.lib.wayne.edu/cgi/i/imag...y=0;view=image

**southen** · November-01-12, 06:32 PM

gnome - my problem isnt that there is a parking component to the development, it is that that is essentially the only thing on both blocks. i was hoping for something that had residential on the broadway side further boosting that street. given the success of the madison i think gilbert is missing a big opportunity to a cool residential development steps away. i hate to see an opportunity lost.

**gnome** · November-01-12, 08:52 PM

I agree Ryan, it does seem to be a missed opportunity, although I am not sure there is enough of a demand for that much housing. Fill up the Book Building, Rehab the Free Press building, let the Milner become a draw, save the Wurlizter, finish the Broderick and the David Whitney, buff clean Capital Park ... Get Riverfront Towers out of bankruptcy...

I think there could be an argument made that a brand new building could retard the development of those afore mentioned buildings. Not wedded to that position, but I think it is worth discussion.

Does new development retard rehabilitation of existing buildings? HmHmm

that is what happened in the 1970's when the RenCen was built. Firms boogied out of The Dime, Penobscot, First National, Ford, and several others for new and fancy digs down on the river. Granted, we are talking residential and not commercial, but would we see something similar?

Certainly we wouldn't find those new residents within the CBD, they would have to come from suburban locations. Not exclusively, but generally, these suburban dwellers are use to a certain way of life. Would these folk to for the new or the old? If they did go for the new, would that doom a place like the Book to the wrecking ball?

**gthomas** · November-01-12, 09:42 PM

I agree, Gnome...but one thing I don't understand is why aren't there more rehab and/or new residential projects happening? Occupancy rates are high and nearly closed, lots of vacant buildings and vacant land around downtown and Midtown...even Brush Park. Man where are the investors, aren't we past the "take a chance or no" concept? We need residential development full throttle going on in and around Downtown, Riverfront, Midtown, New Center, Eastern Market, Corktown and Brush Park neighborhoods. ASAP...the demand is just too high, I just don't get it...