Detroit State Savings Bank Owner Wants to Demolish Historic Structure, Build Parking

**stinkytofu** · August-23-12, 05:44 PM

Originally Posted by Bham1982

Come to think of it, 211 West Fort has like three parking facilities. They have a tenant garage, directly below the building, an on-site surface lot for overflow, and a huge garage across the street.

No, there is not. There is no tenant garage below and no on-site surface lot for overflow. That tiny lot is for staff and deliveries. There is a big garage across Washington [[Fort Washington Garage) that most employees use - but that is not an official garage for the building.

**iheartthed** · August-23-12, 05:46 PM

Originally Posted by Bham1982

I don't think anything is booming in terms of office space anywhere in MI. My point is that owners think that parking is an essential tenant amenity. It's probably fair to assume that owners have a decent idea of tenant preferences.

Well the owner should've bought an office park in the suburbs.

**stinkytofu** · August-23-12, 05:52 PM

Originally Posted by iheartthed

Well the owner should've bought an office park in the suburbs.

The owner is a moron if he bought the Penobscot thinking/knowing he desperately needed additional parking, but having no good plan in place to acquire that parking.

9mile&seneca · August-23-12, 05:56 PM

Detroit: Cleveland, but without the buildings

**Scottathew** · August-23-12, 06:12 PM

Originally Posted by rjlj

Soon there will be no reason to head downtown.

I'm not saying I'm for the demolition of this landmark. I agree with others, there are many other options where we can build parking garages WITHOUT tearing down landmarks.

However, this historical landmark isn't exactly a "reason to go downtown".

The main reasons for going downtown are:

1) You work there
2) Tigers
3) Red Wings
4) Lions
5) Concert\Music\Opera
6) Fireworks
.....
103,934,101) Come take a look at the Detroit State Savings Bank

**Gistok** · August-23-12, 06:14 PM

The great American architect Stanford White, who designed what is now known as the Savoyard Centre, was one of America's most famous architects... and his high society murder in 1906 made headlines across the country....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanford_White

**Richard** · August-23-12, 06:21 PM

Originally Posted by 48091

I'm not saying I'm for the demolition of this landmark. I agree with others, there are many other options where we can build parking garages WITHOUT tearing down landmarks.

However, this historical landmark isn't exactly a "reason to go downtown".

The main reasons for going downtown are:

1) You work there
2) Tigers
3) Red Wings
4) Lions
5) Concert\Music\Opera
6) Fireworks
.....
103,934,101) Come take a look at the Detroit State Savings Bank

A downtown filled with a nice collection historical buildings would be a reason to venture downtown if anything else just to enjoy the buildings,this one is a nice addition to that collection.I guess one could say it is a jewel in the crown.

The buildings alone could be a nice little touristy draw.That is the problem ,take one down here ,take one down there over a period of time your standing back and asking why and how?

**313WX** · August-23-12, 06:23 PM

Originally Posted by stinkytofu

Off the top of my head there are two surface decent size surface parking lots within one block of the Penebscot [[the lot on the northeast and the lot on the northwest intersection of Larned/Shelby). Those seem large enough for a garage. Hell, there is even that little inlet by the salad place on Congress [[though that must be too small for garage).

There are tons of inlets in Manhattan like the one you're referring to on Congress that have parking garages, or parking lifts.

**313WX** · August-23-12, 06:29 PM

Originally Posted by iheartthed

...so if parking was truly what made real estate in downtown Detroit worthwhile then these buildings that you named should be booming, no?

I don't get Detroit's fascination with parking garages, especially in downtown Detroit. That's gotta be the absolute worse use of space in a region's core.

A parking garage IS better than a surface lot.

If done right, it can at least protect the street wall [[Greektown garage, Book Cadillac garage, Compuware garage, garage with CVS, etc).

But what other choice do we have? If TPTB in Detroit refuse to build meaningful mass transit and downtown continues to "boom" as people expect it to, we're going to have to make more room for parking.

**313WX** · August-23-12, 06:33 PM

Originally Posted by 48091

However, this historical landmark isn't exactly a "reason to go downtown".

The main reasons for going downtown are:

1) You work there
2) Tigers
3) Red Wings
4) Lions
5) Concert\Music\Opera
6) Fireworks
.....
103,934,101) Come take a look at the Detroit State Savings Bank

In fact, I'll narrow down your list further...

As long as the Tigers and Red wings are able to play their games, suburbanites couldn't care less what happens with the rest of Detroit and downtown.

Folks in the neighborhoods who rarely venture downtown [[in fact, more often than not go to the suburbs) also couldn't care less.

Shollin · August-23-12, 06:42 PM

Not going to lie, but I never went downtown to look at abandoned buildings.

**iheartthed** · August-23-12, 06:55 PM

Originally Posted by Shollin

Not going to lie, but I never went downtown to look at abandoned buildings.

I never went down there because parking is plentiful.

**Gannon** · August-23-12, 07:10 PM

Originally Posted by Gistok

It was built so strongly that a 20 story hotel tower was at one time planned to be built on TOP of it. And one of the reasons was... because the lobby is even more sumptuous than the inside of the Book-Cadillac.

Sounds like that is our solution. He has a structure strong enough for twenty more stories. Make many of 'em high-density parking, maybe a few a high-end hotel [[to use that spectacular lobby to full effect).

Plus, they've got a killer vault system in that building.

**wolverine** · August-23-12, 07:37 PM

Originally Posted by 48091

I'm not saying I'm for the demolition of this landmark. I agree with others, there are many other options where we can build parking garages WITHOUT tearing down landmarks.

However, this historical landmark isn't exactly a "reason to go downtown".

The main reasons for going downtown are:

1) You work there
2) Tigers
3) Red Wings
4) Lions
5) Concert\Music\Opera
6) Fireworks
.....
103,934,101) Come take a look at the Detroit State Savings Bank

Well, if you had buildings downtown, you could do a whole lot more than visit Two [[2) Theater Buildings and Three [[3) Stadiums.

Reason 103,934,101 could easily move up to the top 100 if someone decides to put something inside of that historic space.

The fact that the owner can't attract tenants has nothing to do with the building. It has everything to do with poor marketing and appropriate rent prices without that amenity.

I'm willing to acknowledge that some tenants may feel unsafe walking a block or two to their car. Some places staff security personnel to walk employees to their car who feel unsafe. The cost of supplying this service is far less than building and operating a parking garage. Did I mention it creates jobs?

**Kathleen** · August-23-12, 08:02 PM

'Scuse me....but having worked in the Penobscot Building for 16 years, it wasn't a huge problem to park on Cobo Roof or at Joe Louis Arena parking garage and walk or take the shuttle or People Mover. I walked, and in fact, because of that, patronized a number of the downtown retail establishments on my walk route to buy newspapers, magazines, coffee, pastries, office supplies, gifts, and cards, and have film developed and printed. Parking at the building where one works means you don't get out and about much.

I know...since that is how it is out here in the 'burbs where the company moved. I have to make a concerted effort to spend my dollars in the community where I work because there are no close-by retail establishments within walking distance.

**DetroitPlanner** · August-23-12, 08:09 PM

Originally Posted by Jason

The Ford Building doesn't have dedicated parking and it's doing fine. Also, the Buhl Building, The Guardian Building, One Woodward Avenue, 211 West Fort Street, Chase Tower...

The Buhl has its own garage. The Chase has underground access to the old Kennedy Square Garage. One Woodward has access to the Ford Auditorium garage. There is a garage across Washington from 211.

That being said this is one of my favorite spaces in Detroit's financial district. I am surprised that it is so underutilized.

The only reason Silvers closed was it was bought out by Staples for its customer list. Its obvious that it can't work for a bank or a office supply store anymore though I thought that Julian Scott was a good adaption, even though the company was so undercapitalized it wasn't even funny.

This building is a national landmark. The owner is Canadian and has no idea what he faces with this suggestion from preservation groups, or the dept of the interior. Canada in general has a worse preservation record than Detroit does. Its not an important part of its culture.

**Mackinaw** · August-23-12, 08:11 PM

Considering the historic designations, the odds of this happening are very low. I am not ruling out a complete miscarriage of rationality here, but the odds are low. Given that, let's make this a teachable moment. I am calling on Mayor Bing or our chief planner to make a public statement saying: 'if our goal is to make a transit oriented downtown, complete with light rail and improved buses, facilitating more parking is simply inconsistent and counterproductive: we will not do it; those days are over.' They could go further. I recommend: 'if our goal is to maintain, nay, enhance the walkability and safety of Detroit, we will preserve historic street walls and find tenants to fill them, rather than create more monstrosities which detract from our character, reduce the beauty of the city, and keep people in their cars, not on the sidewalk.' Detroit 2.0. Let's go.

**DetroitPlanner** · August-23-12, 08:21 PM

Originally Posted by Mackinaw

I am calling on Mayor Bing or our chief planner to make a public statement saying: 'if our goal is to make a transit oriented downtown, complete with light rail and improved buses, facilitating more parking is simply inconsistent and counterproductive: we will not do it; those days are over.' They could go further. I recommend: 'if our goal is to maintain, nay, enhance the walkability and safety of Detroit, we will preserve historic street walls and find tenants to fill them, rather than create more monstrosities which detract from our character, reduce the beauty of the city, and keep people in their cars, not on the sidewalk.' Detroit 2.0. Let's go.

The City has cut DDOT's budget this year by more than 50 percent. Your goals are not the goals of your leaders. Planners don't control the budget politicos do.

**Jason** · August-23-12, 08:28 PM

Originally Posted by Bham1982

I think every one of those buildings, except maybe for the Guardian [[which is a govt. building, essentially) has dedicated parking.

I know the Buhl does, as my dad works there. They have a tenant agreement with an adjacent garage. Chase Tower has parking, as does 211 and One Woodward. I would assume the Guardian has some arrangement with a parking operator too.

I'm not saying a building has to have a direct in-house garage. Obviously the prewar buildings didn't have garages, since cars weren't the norm.

211, Chase, and One Woodward do not have significant parking garages. The doors are for service vehicles, and maybe a handful of spaces.

The Buhl does have the building next door, but even if it was dedicated exclusively to the Buhl, it wouldn't be enough parking. So instead, either the building management itself, or the tenants have deals with various garages downtown, and most people have short walks to the office. This is what you do when you don't have dedicated adjacent parking.

Come to think of it, 211 West Fort has like three parking facilities. They have a tenant garage, directly below the building, an on-site surface lot for overflow, and a huge garage across the street

There's not a real parking garage under 211. It's mainly a service area. I think there's a limited amount of parking there [[unlike One Woodward Avenue, which is exclusively a service area). The surface parking outside is only a handful of spots. Across the street is the parking garage base of a separate office building, which 211 could possibly have an agreement with, but even if the entire garage was dedicated to 211 it still wouldn't be enough parking.

I wouldn't be opposed if a parking lot somewhere was upgraded to big parking garage [[actually it wouldn't be bad if the garage next to the buhl was extended to the surface lot behind it), but this is different.

**p69rrh51** · August-23-12, 08:36 PM

I hope the city shows a little sanity considering its the only McKim, Mead and White design in Detroit.

**Rocko** · August-23-12, 08:45 PM

I'm a preservationist. I rarely want to punch anyone in the face. THIS makes me want to punch someone in the face. It's unlikely it would go through and thank God for that. But the very notion of this idea and the fact that someone could be serious about it doesn't exactly speak well for the property owners of landmarks downtown....... I hope both the Free Press and the News run print versions of this story tomorrow.

Well said, Mackinaw, and others!

**stinkytofu** · August-23-12, 08:55 PM

I just reread the article and realized he just bought the bank THIS month. What a jackass.

**Bad Brains** · August-23-12, 10:03 PM

There is already plenty of parking in that area, I don't get it. Also, With the obesity problem in this state and city, people could stand to walk a few blocks to get to work. Crazy Americans.

**wolverine** · August-23-12, 10:19 PM

Originally Posted by Bad Brains

There is already plenty of parking in that area, I don't get it. Also, With the obesity problem in this state and city, people could stand to walk a few blocks to get to work. Crazy Americans.

I know right? But it goes extremes in each direction. There's the folks that don't do any walking period, and those who waste their time and life going to a gym to run on a treadmill. Bonus points if they DRIVE to the gym to run a treadmill.

You know if people parked their cars in a centralized place downtown, walk to / from bus stops, or even better...lived closer to work it would absolutely change their lives for the better. You wouldn't even think you were exercising just going someplace. America chose its destiny by letting machines take us everywhere we wanted to be. We got fat and lazy. And now we're letting our silly conveniences take out the history that defines our cities.

**Mackinaw** · August-23-12, 10:47 PM

Great photo post. Shows how nicely the building works to interrupt the upper-story streetwall and allow the movement of air and sun. It enhances the desirability of the tall buildings around it, while maintaining enclosure on the street level. In New York this would be both treasured [[for the above reasons) and reviled [[by developers who can certainly justify something taller based on market demand). Here, there is no in-demand commodity that justifies even considering allowing something this beneficial to be torn down. No need for another tall office building. No need for more parking. And to the extent you say we should in fact building more of either/both, then the answer [[and this should be the answer for probably a good three to five decades) is to build on fallow land and surface parking lots. Or on top of the Cobo Roof, haha.