Detroit State Savings Bank Owner Wants to Demolish Historic Structure, Build Parking

**SWMAP** · August-23-12, 02:49 PM

That's the headline on the Freep front page.

This can't be allowed.

This is the idea of the new owners of the building.

http://www.freep.com/article/2012082...text|FRONTPAGE

**stinkytofu** · August-23-12, 02:53 PM

Hell no. Hell no. Hell no.

There is so much space downtown to build a damn garage. Surface lots galore. If they were to let this happen I'd be so pissed and lose so much hope for downtown's future. It would be positively sickening.

**jpbollma** · August-23-12, 03:06 PM

Originally Posted by stinkytofu

Hell no. Hell no. Hell no.

There is so much space downtown to build a damn garage. Surface lots galore. If they were to let this happen I'd be so pissed and lose so much hope for downtown's future. It would be positively sickening.

This is idiotic. One of Downtown's greatest selling points is the historic property. There are tons of parking lots down there that should have parking garages on them. This is ridiculous.

**canuck** · August-24-12, 06:47 PM

Originally Posted by jpbollma

This is idiotic. One of Downtown's greatest selling points is the historic property. There are tons of parking lots down there that should have parking garages on them. This is ridiculous.

I can tell you most other cities would not allow this to happen anymore. What you just said about Detroit's historic buildings is the one major card it has to draw in order to regroup and become a major city again. Maybe the Phoenix that was to renasce is the oe in Arizona after all. Maybe american culture in its Michigan essence is about planned obsolescence in cars and architecture and civic life come to think of it.

What is it with parking in Detroit?

This only illustrates the point that convenience for car users is an ably marketed commodity and it is now so engrained that developers cannot imagine any function for Detroit other than sheltering cars. Even Gilbert's evocation of a project on Woodward comprised a multistory lot in a sea of multistory and flat lots. Dog forbid.

**wolverine** · August-24-12, 07:13 PM

Originally Posted by canuck

I can tell you most other cities would not allow this to happen anymore. What you just said about Detroit's historic buildings is the one major card it has to draw in order to regroup and become a major city again. Maybe the Phoenix that was to renasce is the oe in Arizona after all. Maybe american culture in its Michigan essence is about planned obsolescence in cars and architecture and civic life come to think of it.

What is it with parking in Detroit?

This only illustrates the point that convenience for car users is an ably marketed commodity and it is now so engrained that developers cannot imagine any function for Detroit other than sheltering cars. Even Gilbert's evocation of a project on Woodward comprised a multistory lot in a sea of multistory and flat lots. Dog forbid.

Chicago has let this nonsense happen.

The developer tore down a City Landmarked building because the column grid of the building didn't line up correctly with the tower and he needed space for 5 levels of parking garage. The compromise? The developer was required to reconstruct the building's exterior, exactly as it was when it was first constructed.

The Farwell Building in the early 2000's

The Farwell site after demolition as a cleared site.

The Farwell Building begins reconstruction

The Farwell nears completion

Street level details

Down the street is another replica, the art deco tower at Northrbidge. Reconstructed in the early 2000's. Again, the curvalinear contemporary shape of the 5 level shopping mall inside had taller floors and a different grid. He was allowed to demolish the building and rebuild the exterior a similar as possible. Though you can see some of the mall floorplates slicing through the middle of windows. This was also a historic landmark.

superduperman · August-23-12, 02:57 PM

Just great.....parking garages as far as the eye can see.

**Scottathew** · August-23-12, 03:01 PM

Well... on the bright side it's better than Illitch just bulldozing and doing surface parking...

**rjlj** · August-23-12, 03:02 PM

Soon there will be no reason to head downtown.
Totally stupid to tear down buildings like this for a parking garage.
The Penobscot building has been around nearly 100 years, has parking been an issue for that long?

**Scottathew** · August-23-12, 06:12 PM

Originally Posted by rjlj

Soon there will be no reason to head downtown.

I'm not saying I'm for the demolition of this landmark. I agree with others, there are many other options where we can build parking garages WITHOUT tearing down landmarks.

However, this historical landmark isn't exactly a "reason to go downtown".

The main reasons for going downtown are:

1) You work there
2) Tigers
3) Red Wings
4) Lions
5) Concert\Music\Opera
6) Fireworks
.....
103,934,101) Come take a look at the Detroit State Savings Bank

**Richard** · August-23-12, 06:21 PM

Originally Posted by 48091

I'm not saying I'm for the demolition of this landmark. I agree with others, there are many other options where we can build parking garages WITHOUT tearing down landmarks.

However, this historical landmark isn't exactly a "reason to go downtown".

The main reasons for going downtown are:

1) You work there
2) Tigers
3) Red Wings
4) Lions
5) Concert\Music\Opera
6) Fireworks
.....
103,934,101) Come take a look at the Detroit State Savings Bank

A downtown filled with a nice collection historical buildings would be a reason to venture downtown if anything else just to enjoy the buildings,this one is a nice addition to that collection.I guess one could say it is a jewel in the crown.

The buildings alone could be a nice little touristy draw.That is the problem ,take one down here ,take one down there over a period of time your standing back and asking why and how?

**313WX** · August-23-12, 06:33 PM

Originally Posted by 48091

However, this historical landmark isn't exactly a "reason to go downtown".

The main reasons for going downtown are:

1) You work there
2) Tigers
3) Red Wings
4) Lions
5) Concert\Music\Opera
6) Fireworks
.....
103,934,101) Come take a look at the Detroit State Savings Bank

In fact, I'll narrow down your list further...

As long as the Tigers and Red wings are able to play their games, suburbanites couldn't care less what happens with the rest of Detroit and downtown.

Folks in the neighborhoods who rarely venture downtown [[in fact, more often than not go to the suburbs) also couldn't care less.

**wolverine** · August-23-12, 07:37 PM

Originally Posted by 48091

I'm not saying I'm for the demolition of this landmark. I agree with others, there are many other options where we can build parking garages WITHOUT tearing down landmarks.

However, this historical landmark isn't exactly a "reason to go downtown".

The main reasons for going downtown are:

1) You work there
2) Tigers
3) Red Wings
4) Lions
5) Concert\Music\Opera
6) Fireworks
.....
103,934,101) Come take a look at the Detroit State Savings Bank

Well, if you had buildings downtown, you could do a whole lot more than visit Two [[2) Theater Buildings and Three [[3) Stadiums.

Reason 103,934,101 could easily move up to the top 100 if someone decides to put something inside of that historic space.

The fact that the owner can't attract tenants has nothing to do with the building. It has everything to do with poor marketing and appropriate rent prices without that amenity.

I'm willing to acknowledge that some tenants may feel unsafe walking a block or two to their car. Some places staff security personnel to walk employees to their car who feel unsafe. The cost of supplying this service is far less than building and operating a parking garage. Did I mention it creates jobs?

**Mackinaw** · August-23-12, 08:11 PM

Considering the historic designations, the odds of this happening are very low. I am not ruling out a complete miscarriage of rationality here, but the odds are low. Given that, let's make this a teachable moment. I am calling on Mayor Bing or our chief planner to make a public statement saying: 'if our goal is to make a transit oriented downtown, complete with light rail and improved buses, facilitating more parking is simply inconsistent and counterproductive: we will not do it; those days are over.' They could go further. I recommend: 'if our goal is to maintain, nay, enhance the walkability and safety of Detroit, we will preserve historic street walls and find tenants to fill them, rather than create more monstrosities which detract from our character, reduce the beauty of the city, and keep people in their cars, not on the sidewalk.' Detroit 2.0. Let's go.

**DetroitPlanner** · August-23-12, 08:21 PM

Originally Posted by Mackinaw

I am calling on Mayor Bing or our chief planner to make a public statement saying: 'if our goal is to make a transit oriented downtown, complete with light rail and improved buses, facilitating more parking is simply inconsistent and counterproductive: we will not do it; those days are over.' They could go further. I recommend: 'if our goal is to maintain, nay, enhance the walkability and safety of Detroit, we will preserve historic street walls and find tenants to fill them, rather than create more monstrosities which detract from our character, reduce the beauty of the city, and keep people in their cars, not on the sidewalk.' Detroit 2.0. Let's go.

The City has cut DDOT's budget this year by more than 50 percent. Your goals are not the goals of your leaders. Planners don't control the budget politicos do.

**downtownguy** · August-23-12, 03:05 PM

I liked this guy when I first read about him. No so much anymore. It makes me wonder if he's walked more than a block from the Penobscot. There's plenty of parking nearby, and as stinkytofu says, many surface lots if he really feels a need to build. It sounds to me like he just wants something adjacent to his building. Does anybody have stats on downtown garages? How much of capacity is used?

**iheartthed** · August-23-12, 03:07 PM

“Detroit needs parking,” he said. “If we don’t have parking people won’t come downtown… We tried to bring some tenants downtown and the people are not coming because there is no parking.”

Detroit needs a way for people to go downtown without requiring 3 parking spaces per person.

**TexasT** · August-23-12, 03:08 PM

He acknowledged that the bank building is listed on the city, state, and federal registers of historic places. The city designation in particular offers significant protection against demolition.

Sounds like it is going to be very difficult to actually raze the building. Thank God.

**stinkytofu** · August-23-12, 03:15 PM

Originally Posted by TexasT

Sounds like it is going to be very difficult to actually raze the building. Thank God.

If it became anything like the Michigan Theatre I'd be super pissed as well. What a disgrace that is.

**TexasT** · August-23-12, 03:19 PM

Originally Posted by stinkytofu

If it became anything like the Michigan Theatre I'd be super pissed as well. What a disgrace that is.

Oh wow, just googled and read about that. Awful.

**Bham1982** · August-23-12, 03:26 PM

What is the solution, though? The problem is that there aren't really better alternatives.

Given present market conditions, there are two outcomes- First option is the building is demolished for Penobsot parking, and the Penobscot is a competitive building with a future. Second option is that no parking is added, and the Penobscot continues to wither away.

Downtown Detroit office space needs adjacent [[preferably attached, with direct access) parking. Absent this amenity, the building isn't worth much, and usually eventually abandoned.

Obviously there are ideal situations that would both preserve the old bank building and allow the Penobscot to thrive. The problem is that none of these solutions are within striking distance of present reality.

**stinkytofu** · August-23-12, 03:31 PM

Originally Posted by Bham1982

What is the solution, though? The problem is that there aren't really better alternatives.

Given present market conditions, there are two outcomes- First option is the building is demolished for Penobsot parking, and the Penobscot is a competitive building with a future. Second option is that no parking is added, and the Penobscot continues to wither away.

Downtown Detroit office space needs adjacent [[preferably attached, with direct access) parking. Absent this amenity, the building isn't worth much, and usually eventually abandoned.

Obviously there are ideal situations that would both preserve the old bank building and allow the Penobscot to thrive. The problem is that none of these solutions are within striking distance of present reality.

Walking one block to a structure is likely less walking then someone would do if they worked out in suburbia and had to deal with one of those sprawling corporate parking lots that goes on for ages.

**stinkytofu** · August-23-12, 03:33 PM

Hell, build a damn structure on that stupid park they built where the Lafayette Building was. The city already completely f'ed up that whole situation...and that's also only a block from the Penobscot.

**Hypestyles** · August-24-12, 12:31 PM

what are some options for re-use--

nightclub?
community center?
gym/health club?
charter school?
art gallery?

**stinkytofu** · August-23-12, 03:23 PM

Off the top of my head there are two surface decent size surface parking lots within one block of the Penebscot [[the lot on the northeast and the lot on the northwest intersection of Larned/Shelby). Those seem large enough for a garage. Hell, there is even that little inlet by the salad place on Congress [[though that must be too small for garage).

Maybe this owner should spend a little more money purchasing lots to make his investments worthwhile before he decides to destroy our history.

**313WX** · August-23-12, 06:23 PM

Originally Posted by stinkytofu

Off the top of my head there are two surface decent size surface parking lots within one block of the Penebscot [[the lot on the northeast and the lot on the northwest intersection of Larned/Shelby). Those seem large enough for a garage. Hell, there is even that little inlet by the salad place on Congress [[though that must be too small for garage).

There are tons of inlets in Manhattan like the one you're referring to on Congress that have parking garages, or parking lifts.