Panhandlers in Detroit could face jail time

[detroitsgwenivere]

I....wouldn't expect anyone all dressed up from a Mercedes to randomly do that

But, I'm guessing, being a vet, he's probably trained to respond aggressively from his former military training and living on streets.

For all I know, he could shank me for it. I can't even imagine a time where I've seen a panhandler in Detroit who didn't give off a vibe that he would yell at me or pounce if I did something to set him off like throw a drink at him.

That's not something I've observed and I'm sure most others haven't either.

I think you're making some big assumptions here

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

How do you know that the guy in the Mercedes who threw the drink didn't know him from before?

How the hell should I know?! I'm just telling you what I saw at the intersection. Was I supposed to flag him down and ask him, " Hey asshole, why'd you throw your drink on that bum?" Maybe I just assumed that Benzie was a pistol toten, job creatin, rightwing nut job from Oakland County down here in the "warzone" to pick up his weekly allowance of powder. Who knows what THEY are capable of....

But, probably not, right Dave?

To use that example to challenge the new panhandler law is so outrageous. I can't even go through this thread without having to respond to it.

Ummmm, that's funny. I dont remember writing anything that challenged the panhandler law in one way or another. Time to invest in some reading glasses Dave.

Your story sounds very rare and really out of the ordinary to make your case and I'm willing to bet there was something more to it.

Maybe it's just rare that its ever reported. I mean who gives a shit about a worthless, violent, liquor addled bum, am I right?

[superduperman]

I dare you to throw a drink at a random beggar. I double dare you. If you think they are not going to assault you in this city for it or kick a dent in your car, then that is very foolish and naive reasoning on your part. It's just common sense not to do that. It has nothing to do with cruelty.

You dare me? Really? I'm done.....

[davewindsor]

Ummmm, that's funny. I dont remember writing anything that challenged the panhandler law in one way or another. Time to invest in some reading glasses Dave.

Well then stay on topic instead of going off on a tangent because the OP was about the new panhandler law. So, the discussion is whether it's a good law or not with reasons why it should be supported or challenged.

[Scottathew]

I like the law.

It still allows folks to beg, but it keeps beggars away from captive audiences, and let's them know that "no" means "no".

I've only had issues with a couple beggars. The vast majority of beggars I see downtown already comply with this law.

[detroitsgwenivere]

Well then stay on topic instead of going off on a tangent because the OP was about the new panhandler law. So, the discussion is whether it's a good law or not with reasons why it should be supported or challenged.

I am on topic. The law is addressing aggressive panhandlers. Im pointing out that not all panhandlers are aggressive, but there are some "panhandlees" that sure are.

And im not sure how a short 2 paragraph post about something i saw that bothered me at an intersection is a rant, and your lengthy admonishment to me isn't. But if you say so

If I had to place a judgement on an ordinance I havent had an opportunity to read yet, I would say that I'm in support of it's intent [[on it's face) as long as there is equal enforcement of those who are needlessly aggressive to panhandlers. Fair is fair.

[superduperman]

I am on topic. The law is addressing aggressive panhandlers. Im pointing out that not all panhandlers are aggressive, but there are some "panhandlees" that sure are.

And im not sure how a short 2 paragraph post about something i saw that bothered me at an intersection is a rant, and your lengthy admonishment to me isn't. But if you say so

If I had to place a judgement on an ordinance I havent had an opportunity to read yet, I would say that I'm in support of it's intent [[on it's face) as long as there is equal enforcement of those who are needlessly aggressive to panhandlers. Fair is fair.

I think he was saying that this could not have possibly happened, not in this world and if it did, the panhandler most likely brought it on himself because him and the guy in the benz had prior business together and the panhandler tried to back stabbed the guy in the benz and that this was simply the universes way of balancing everything back out, get it?

[firstandten]

I thought about that and it would seem to be fitting punishment and possibly instill some work ethic. But I think if you'd be forcing them to work, you'd still have to provide food and housing + cost of supervision, tools, and transport to work sites

Thats true there would be costs involved in even doing a work detail. I thought it would be better than them just laying up in jail and not being able to re-coupe any of the cost of them being jailed.

That being said the panhandlers seem to be more aggressive and something needs to be done to curb that. A few years ago I parked my car in a lot downtown that had no attendant. A guy was accosting the other people that parked their cars saying he would watch their cars for them. I know that game of course but I was watching the other people turn him down, so I did as well. He must have realized that people were blowing him off so he decided to insinuate to me when I refused him that my car would be damaged. This dude pushed the wrong button with that statement and I told him if my car is damaged I would track him down and kick his ass and if my wife wasn't there to cool me off I don't know how this incident would have ended since I turned completely around and started walking toward him as I was making my statement. Something like that is out of character for me and I usually don't have that kind of problems with panhandlers in fact a lot of times I give them money, it depends on how they approach me.
But I find they are getting more aggressive, so there needs to be better guidelines on what they can and cannot do.

[Brian1979]

In Chicago the panhandlers are right off the expressway's begging for money. It's crazy.

[webband1]

In Chicago the panhandlers are right off the expressway's begging for money. It's crazy.

They sit on milk crates on the left side of just about every entrance/exit ramp on 75/375 from Downtown to Warren Ave.

[Hypestyles]

..what about using some abandoned school buildings as homeless shelters/social-service hubs..

..the old Michigan Bell building off the lodge freeway is due to open soon [[if not already) by Neighborhood Service Org., as a homeless apartment bldg./service center..

[Danny]

When Jesus was preaching through the Galilee, He told the people to give alms to the poor. Most of the people give. Then this poor woman in rags give her last coin to the offering basket. Jesus says, "She has giving more than all of you."


People need help, even that they don't need help. Give them
food, clothes, shelter, job and medical, and mind spiritual reprograming to get their lives back on track. Putting a cap on the needy is not going to make them go away. Give them hope and begging will stop.

Jesus sez... "It's is more blessed to give them to recieve."

[Shollin]

When Jesus was preaching through the Galilee, He told the people to give alms to the poor. Most of the people give. Then this poor woman in rags give her last coin to the offering basket. Jesus says, "She has giving more than all of you."


People need help, even that they don't need help. Give them
food, clothes, shelter, job and medical, and mind spiritual reprograming to get their lives back on track. Putting a cap on the needy is not going to make them go away. Give them hope and begging will stop.

Jesus sez... "It's is more blessed to give them to recieve."

God also ordered thousands of people to be killed. What's the point?

[davewindsor]

God also ordered thousands of people to be killed. What's the point?

God is merciful. If you're talking about God of the Holy Bible, God always sends a prophet to warn people to change their bad morals and wickedness before ordering them to be killed or a town destroyed. If they change their bad ways and repent from the warning, they will be saved; otherwise, they will be destroyed. See Jonah 3:4 of the Old Testament or google how the Prophet Jonah warned Nineveh and how a town repented and changed from their bad morals and God was merciful.

Unless you're talking about false prophets, false judges, and false Kings, which doesn't count.

But, I think the previous poster was talking about the teachings of Jesus, not the words of God. Who did Jesus order to be killed?

[coracle]

When Jesus was preaching through the Galilee, He told the people to give alms to the poor. Most of the people give. Then this poor woman in rags give her last coin to the offering basket. Jesus says, "She has giving more than all of you."


People need help, even that they don't need help. Give them
food, clothes, shelter, job and medical, and mind spiritual reprograming to get their lives back on track. Putting a cap on the needy is not going to make them go away. Give them hope and begging will stop.

Jesus sez... "It's is more blessed to give them to recieve."

If Jesus returned and preached through Detroit he might tell the people to give to the Panhandles so they could pay their fines;and give caps to the other needy. We would then all be walking round downtown in caps. The first cap to be given out should definitely go to the lady that gave her last coin. I like the updating of the needs of the modern downtrodden to include "job and medical"; that's a really nice touch that didn't enter into the picture in biblical times.
Of course we also know now that recieving four years of "Hope" is no blessing either.

[mikeinmotown]

It's about time. The majority of the panhandlers are not homeless at all. A guy by the name of TC has been doing this scam for at least 20 years and can get very aggresive. I'm sick and tired of seeing the same faces at different venues in the city. They say then need bus fare, food, food for their families, etc. If you really want to help the homeless or people who are hungry donate money to one of the many organizations who can help them.

[Wesley Mouch]

Those who think we need to be nice to panhandlers don't understand what's really going on out there.

Give to panhandlers, and you're mostly either feeding a habit or you're giving to someone who's not truly needy.

So you're encouraging drug / alcohol use.

And you're encouraging a behavior that discourages redevelopment of our city at the same time.

Go ahead, if you don't care about people or Detroit.

Or go find a good charity. Consider the Capuchin Soup Kitchen: http://cskdetroit.org/. That money will get to someone needy -- not someone manipulative.

[ragnarok1981]

I think Detroit needs to create a kind of work camp system to deal with the homeless. A work detail would be created to help clean up the city and those who would be part of it would be paid minimum wage to clear weeds, clean grabage, board up buildings etc. If authorities encounter a homeless person begging then they should evaluate the person to determine if they are fit to work. If they are unable to work do to health problems then put them in a hospital and treat them, if they are fit to work then give them the choice to either participate in the program or leave the city. I know that groups like the ACLU are all about how begging is protected speech, but what they are not taking into account is everyone elses right not to be accosted by someone who could be dangerous for all we know. I for one feel that I have a right to be able to walk down a street and not have 5 people ask for money and keep asking no matter how many times I say no.

I want to make clear that I do feel sorry for the people on the street and I know life is hard for them, but on the other hand they need to give us some space too. If they were sitting on the sidewalk with a can asking for handouts that is one thing, but more and more often they get in your way and try to block you and I honestly feel like I wish I had a cattle prod to zap this one guy who hangs out on fort street and just keeps going "sir, sir, sir, can you spare some money for a coney?, sir sir sir, please have a heart, sir sir sir, asshole"

If we want the city to have any chance of a comeback, we need to make our streets a safe and friendly area for people to be on, because we are not going to attract any kind of tourists or shoppers if they are being hastled at every corner.

[Danny]

God also ordered thousands of people to be killed. What's the point?

Yes, God did ordered thousands of people killed for their disobediance against him for a purpose of their sins!

God is still love, joy, peace, salvation, grace and a forgiver. But he's also a judge, jealous god [[only against those who worships idols.)

The main point is give or be judged.

[Danny]

Who did Jesus order to be killed?

No one period! because he wants mankind to be saved and redeemed from the sins so they have enter the Kingdom of God and keep their souls out of Gates of Hell!

[BrushStart]

Over the years I've lived downtown, I've had hundreds of encounters with homeless panhandlers. I know most of the regulars on my block by name and have spent hours talking with many of them. The fact is, many are very aggressive. I got to know one guy very well, gave him money and food several times and even a few pairs of shoes. One day, he got very aggressive with me and wouldn't let me pass. From that point on I tried to avoid him. The next time he came up to me, he went to shake my hand and attempted to steal my watch [[which isn't worth squat).

I can't tell you how many times I've been out with my girlfriend and they will harass us for blocks or say obscene things. I'm always polite until they become aggressive, at which point, you have to let them know that you can be dangerous if threatened. It has gotten to the point that it is hard to walk 10 feet in the CBD without being harassed. Some of the panhandlers run scams. There's even a male/female couple who works together with different stories every time about paying for their kid's college fund. There's another guy who stole a nurse's outfit and pretends to be broke down. There's the favorite line about needing gas money or being from out of town. These people simply piss me off because I know they are lying. I never give them anything.

I feel bad for the ones with severe mental illness. Their situations are very unfortunate and I have compassion. I even feel bad for the ones with addictions, and will even give them money or leftover food sometimes, even if I know I am being an enabler. But, the bums who are foul-mouthed jackasses who think they can intimidate me into giving them my loose change can F off.

After many years of putting up with this, I can honestly say that the problem has gotten worse in the CBD and midtown. Many of the new "bums" even seem to be more of thugs than the disheveled needy folks I am used to seeing. For this reason, I have stopped giving altogether. Hell, that spare change is useful for feeding the parking meter, and I often enjoy eating my leftovers.

[Wesley Mouch]

Over the years I've lived downtown, I've had hundreds of encounters with homeless panhandlers. I know most of the regulars on my block by name and have spent hours talking with many of them. The fact is, many are very aggressive. I got to know one guy very well, gave him money and food several times and even a few pairs of shoes. One day, he got very aggressive with me and wouldn't let me pass. From that point on I tried to avoid him. The next time he came up to me, he went to shake my hand and attempted to steal my watch [[which isn't worth squat).

I can't tell you how many times I've been out with my girlfriend and they will harass us for blocks or say obscene things. I'm always polite until they become aggressive, at which point, you have to let them know that you can be dangerous if threatened. It has gotten to the point that it is hard to walk 10 feet in the CBD without being harassed. Some of the panhandlers run scams. There's even a male/female couple who works together with different stories every time about paying for their kid's college fund. There's another guy who stole a nurse's outfit and pretends to be broke down. There's the favorite line about needing gas money or being from out of town. These people simply piss me off because I know they are lying. I never give them anything.

I feel bad for the ones with severe mental illness. Their situations are very unfortunate and I have compassion. I even feel bad for the ones with addictions, and will even give them money or leftover food sometimes, even if I know I am being an enabler. But, the bums who are foul-mouthed jackasses who think they can intimidate me into giving them my loose change can F off.

After many years of putting up with this, I can honestly say that the problem has gotten worse in the CBD and midtown. Many of the new "bums" even seem to be more of thugs than the disheveled needy folks I am used to seeing. For this reason, I have stopped giving altogether. Hell, that spare change is useful for feeding the parking meter, and I often enjoy eating my leftovers.

I lived and worked within the CBD for years, and this mirrors my feelings and experience precisely.

The 'shaking hand' part is particularly annoying.

I saw on mlive that the Michigan Supreme Court said recently that begging is free speech. And that's OK with me. What's not OK is physically aggressive actions, abusive speech, and poor personal grooming.

[Zacha341]

It's been my experience that SOME panhandles and scammers know [[or think they do) who to really PUT THE PRESSURE to... I've seen them profile one person for the super-deluxe, relentless, guilt-inducing, or near curse out, shake down! Two minutes later ignore the next person[[s), or modify their tactics and/ or move on to the next from only a minor rebuke.

A comedian once remarked on getting into the 'Matrix' on panhandlers to get them 'up off' him...... Approaches vary - mine is fairly calm with just the 'look' that usually suffices with a 'firm' no thank you, or a roll up of my window if required. Rarely is my car touched or does someone impede my walking as I've seen happen to others.

You really want as little interaction as possible, should things take a nasty edge... IMO.

Still dragnet policing is crazy. Especially with the limited resources... does the city hope to collect payments from the fines?