NYTimes on Snyder

[kenp]

I wonder if Granholm still has any more political aspirations. She was an up and comer at one point.
So she is teaching economics in California, interesting. Good for her

[p69rrh51]

No, but I'm definitely not buying into the BS that the taxpayers of Michigan won't spend a dime on this bridge. Plus the fact he taxed public pensions still sets me on fire. Seniors are the one demographic that doesn't need more tax burdens placed upon them

While the perception is seniors are helpless. Most wealth is their hands, and they the one group in general that can afford to pay taxes. Don't let AARP pull a fast one on you.

[Detroitnerd]

I've been unhappy with Snyder's economic policies, and I think pulling revenue-sharing from cities concurrent with signing PA-4 is a sneaky bit of politics, akin to deflating a man's life raft then saying it's time to select a captain who can keep things afloat. And not just taking away revenue-sharing from cities but taxing pensions to give businesses not just the tax break they wanted [[getting rid of the SBT) but even giving them more tax relief on top of it, that was a bit too much, especially when studies show that cutting business taxes doesn't lead to economic booms -- not as much as investing in education and infrastructure, which I haven't seen much of.

All that said, sometimes he surprises me. Refusing to sign most of that "voter fraud" garbage was a welcome move. Refusing to be steamrolled by the billionaire on the bridge issue was a breath of fresh air. He seems to regard the worst excesses of the outstate crazies of his own party as harmful and unnecessary. Though I disagree with him on almost everything, I get the sense he's a canny politician who picks his battles carefully and shrinks from all-or-nothing agenda politics. In that sense, he seems kinda classy. We'll see ...

[NewportNic]

While the perception is seniors are helpless. Most wealth is their hands, and they the one group in general that can afford to pay taxes. Don't let AARP pull a fast one on you.

I agree, if times are hard on those of us who should have our financial houses in order, ask your grandkids about the cost of college.

[Wesley Mouch]

Thank you Gov. Synder for taxing our pensions. The seniors will remember you at election time!

Why should your pension be exempt from tax? I thought most pensions were taxable. Please explain.

[xequar]

I wonder if Granholm still has any more political aspirations. She was an up and comer at one point.
So she is teaching economics in California, interesting. Good for her

She was pretty unpopular by the end of her tenure as governor, so that probably knocked her out for a couple cycles at least. More notably, though, is that typically the next step up the political ladder for a state governor is the presidency, but Granholm falls into that whole Natural Born Citizen trap set out by the Constitution by virtue of her being born a Canadian citizen.

[Jason]

I like Snyder because he does what makes sense to do, and does a good job of getting it done.

He's invested more attention and political capital into Detroit then I remember Granholm doing. There's the RTA, the bridge, the recent neighborhood improvement program [[that's the first that I can recall that does it correctly, by coordinating social services programs, demolition programs, and school programs).

He's a republican who added a new tax, wants to move swiftly on the healthcare reform exchanges, vetoed voter ID stuff, strongly supports public infrastructure projects, and generally believes in the ability of the government to do good things. And he believes in stuff like science and facts and experts. Considering what the Republican party is today, it's fairly accurate to call him a RINO.

I think he's a moderate, pre-Reagan Republican. I don't like every thing that he's done, but overall I think he's doing a good job. Unless there's a good strong proper Democrat [[which I'm hoping for) next election I'll be voting for him again.

[sirrealone]

I thought most states tax pensions now. I never got the impression that Snyder was trying to be groundbreaking, just realistic. The population is aging and more people are collecting pensions, those same people also consuming services that cost money. If they're making money from their pension and consuming services, why shouldn't they pay tax on that income?

I respect the fact that Snyder doesn't just tow the party line. You could hear a pin drop when he 'went against' his party about the whole bridge thing in his first State of the State. Too many politicians just consult their notes on what a 'good Republican' or a 'good Democrat' would do, and don't bother looking at common sense.

One of my biggest pet peeves with government is when they can't balance the budget. Figuring out how money gets allocated should be at the top of the job descriptions of most elected officials, and when you have 'down to the deadline' deals that become the norm, it shows me that they can't be trusted to do anything. Those 'down to the wire' deals were common in Michigan until Snyder came in and got it done months in advance. I may not respect every one of his policies but I admire his 'get it done' approach. That has served our state much better than had been done in the past.

[Cincinnati_Kid]

For seniors whose pensions aren't that great to begin with and barely getting by, taxing them is morally wrong, inspite of what you're saying. Now for all these state, county and city government workers getting ridiculous six figure pensions and still holding high paying jobs [[double-dipping) those are the people who should be paying the bulk of the pension taxes. Not the other way around. We all know that's not the case.

[Wingnatic]

Do those unemployment figures include the ones who have exausted benefits ? It used to be 26 weeks , and boy wonder cut that down to 20 weeks in one of the hardest hit States . Signed such important laws such as repealing the helmet law , we can now carry tazers .

[Shollin]

The reason Snyder got the job sooner was because the legislature is republican and were following party lines. It doesn't work that way when there is a democrat governor and republican legislature and vice versa

[Detroit Stylin]

Do those unemployment figures include the ones who have exausted benefits ? It used to be 26 weeks , and boy wonder cut that down to 20 weeks in one of the hardest hit States . Signed such important laws such as repealing the helmet law , we can now carry tazers .

Not to mention his industry diversity killing scheme that sent the film industry running for the hills after hundreds of millions were spent in the state and thousands of jobs had been created....

[Wesley Mouch]

For seniors whose pensions aren't that great to begin with and barely getting by, taxing them is morally wrong, inspite of what you're saying. Now for all these state, county and city government workers getting ridiculous six figure pensions and still holding high paying jobs [[double-dipping) those are the people who should be paying the bulk of the pension taxes. Not the other way around. We all know that's not the case.

Most of us don't want to tax those that are just getting by. So we have a tax code that provides lower brackets to those with lower incomes. We also have a standard deduction that reduces you income.

These existing fair methods allow us to help those who are 'just getting by', yet tax the pensioner who is also working a $100,000 a year job [[or passive income).

Simply exempting pension income from taxes is much more unfair.

[detroitsgwenivere]

IMO, he was a much better pick than Verg "the angriest mayor" Bernero, who couldn't have given a rats fart about Detroit.

The Dems in this state have been failing us for years and years. In elections, it seems more like the Dems lose than it does the repubs win.

Now we have to deal with pa4 and draconian abortion laws. Thanks a lot mark brewer....

[Detroitnerd]

Now we have to deal with pa4 and draconian abortion laws. Thanks a lot mark brewer....

What has Mark Brewer's leadership done for the democrats in Michigan?

[Locke09]

Most of us don't want to tax those that are just getting by. So we have a tax code that provides lower brackets to those with lower incomes. We also have a standard deduction that reduces you income.

These existing fair methods allow us to help those who are 'just getting by', yet tax the pensioner who is also working a $100,000 a year job [[or passive income).

Simply exempting pension income from taxes is much more unfair.

I would agree with you, except that's not what Snyder did.

Michigan does not have tax brackets, so everyone gets taxed at the same percentage, whether they have that $100,000 job in addition to their pension or not. At the same time, he eliminates or reduces some exemptions that used to benefit the poor [[whether or not they are pensioners).

The most ridiculous part of what he did is that seniors over 65 are completely exempted. Well, that's the group that would be more likely to be getting both pensions and social security. Retired persons under 62 only have their pensions to live off. If under 59, they can't even access any additional 401Ks they might have without paying a penalty.

It would have been more palatable if some base amount of a pension was exempted and everything beyond that was taxed. This would be an acknowledgment that people on a fixed income need a certain level to subsist on, and everything above that is subject to taxation.

[Cincinnati_Kid]

I would agree with you, except that's not what Snyder did.

Michigan does not have tax brackets, so everyone gets taxed at the same percentage, whether they have that $100,000 job in addition to their pension or not. At the same time, he eliminates or reduces some exemptions that used to benefit the poor [[whether or not they are pensioners).

The most ridiculous part of what he did is that seniors over 65 are completely exempted. Well, that's the group that would be more likely to be getting both pensions and social security. Retired persons under 62 only have their pensions to live off. If under 59, they can't even access any additional 401Ks they might have without paying a penalty.

It would have been more palatable if some base amount of a pension was exempted and everything beyond that was taxed. This would be an acknowledgment that people on a fixed income need a certain level to subsist on, and everything above that is subject to taxation.

Thank You. That's the point I'm trying to make. Everyone is taxed the same regardless of how much their pensions are, which sucks and isn't fair at all.

[detroitsgwenivere]

What has Mark Brewer's leadership done for the democrats in Michigan?

Nothin, that's my point.

Especially here in the city. No accountability for the lack of oversight of the Dems in our former or newly drawn state and congressional districts. When it comes to properly vetting and narrowing of potential candidates for primaries, assistance with fundraising for those candidates, and pushing voter registration and education, they drop the ball consistantly.

In Washington, the 13th and 14th congressional districts are a complete fukin joke. Like of the punchline kind.

And the level of fraud/ ethics violations in this last primary election by both parties was something that is rarely seen by those in the know. I still can't believe Thad McCotter is the only guy the state is going after.

[Kevgoblue]

Thank You. That's the point I'm trying to make. Everyone is taxed the same regardless of how much their pensions are, which sucks and isn't fair at all.

But the same statement is true if you substitute the word "income" for "pension". There are standardized exemptions and deductions that apply to all.

Is it any less fair that an unmarried father of 2, working stocking shelves at WalMart is taxed at the same rate? After all, he has bills to pay not to mention the FOC in his pocket. Is it any less offensive that he has to choose between buying his constantly growing children new clothes and groceries?

[Cincinnati_Kid]

But the same statement is true if you substitute the word "income" for "pension". There are standardized exemptions and deductions that apply to all.

Is it any less fair that an unmarried father of 2, working stocking shelves at WalMart is taxed at the same rate? After all, he has bills to pay not to mention the FOC in his pocket. Is it any less offensive that he has to choose between buying his constantly growing children new clothes and groceries?

I agree with you, except pensions are fixed, income is not. Some year's your income is more than others. You're right. It's not fair that he's paying the same rate as someone who's double-dipping and makes 3 times as much money collecting a ridiculous pension and still working at another high-paying job. Seems like that's the norm now, especially since Ficano opened the barn door.

[kryptonite]

Weren't 401k distributions always taxed as income in MI as opposed to pension distributions?

Most of us nowadays, myself included, are enrolled in a 401k plan because our employers do not offer a pension.

To me it's fair if the state taxes 401k dsitributions to also tax pension distributions. However, an age-related cutoff or a tax-free income threshold would seem fair to retirees making less than a certain amount.

[kenp]

I get a kick out of the feel sorry for me government employee's and there pensions. A lot of non government people would have loved to have had one of these pensions. Retire at 50 because you have one and not even have to pay taxes on it. And these people are living well, they are not the ones in bad shape. I should know, my wife is one of them.

[Cincinnati_Kid]

I get a kick out of the feel sorry for me government employee's and there pensions. A lot of non government people would have loved to have had one of these pensions. Retire at 50 because you have one and not even have to pay taxes on it. And these people are living well, they are not the ones in bad shape. I should know, my wife is one of them.

That's the point. The system is underfunded [[or so they say) because of people retiring too young. Ficano blames the 13th week pay they receive as the culprit, which sounds suspect to me. It's a lot more to it than just that. If offered a "sweetheart deal" like that of your wife, I ask you who wouldn't take it? But what does it convey to the public worker who retires with a 30k a year pension who's scuffling to make it ? That he retired from the wrong occupation? I'm sure they worked just as hard, if not harder for their benefits as anybody else. Something's amiss here.

[kenp]

That's the point. The system is underfunded [[or so they say) because of people retiring too young. Ficano blames the 13th week pay they receive as the culprit, which sounds suspect to me. It's a lot more to it than just that. If offered a "sweetheart deal" like that of your wife, I ask you who wouldn't take it? But what does it convey to the public worker who retires with a 30k a year pension who's scuffling to make it ? That he retired from the wrong occupation? I'm sure they worked just as hard, if not harder for their benefits as anybody else. Something's amiss here.

I guess Im losing your point, are you saying no one should pay tax on a pension?
I dont have a pension, I have to earn my own retirement using my IRA. Are you saying that I shouldnt be taxed? And since I am a tax payer I have to also pay for the government employee's pension as well.

[antongast]

I guess Im losing your point, are you saying no one should pay tax on a pension?
I dont have a pension, I have to earn my own retirement using my IRA. Are you saying that I shouldnt be taxed? And since I am a tax payer I have to also pay for the government employee's pension as well.

I don't think anyone should "have to earn their own retirement using an IRA." That's a stupid way for us, as a society, to fund retirement. The efficient thing to do would be to expand Social Security so that people can easily live off it in retirement, and then index that level of revenue and expenditure to inflation. I just don't see the policy rationale for requiring individuals, with their wildly varying areas of expertise, to figure out for themselves how to save and invest for retirement throughout their lives. It seems like a racket that mostly benefits the financial services industry at the expense of regular folks who don't have the first clue about investing.