The DIA Art Millage

**coracle** · August-05-12, 10:35 AM

The person that started this thread got the facts wrong. It's not "....12 mills with from any taxable income. You just be paying 12 dollars a year for the next ten years..." [[his words; not mine). It's a 0.20 mill based on the taxable value of your house. Most people's payments in Oakland County will be about $30/$60 per year or #300/$600 for 10 years. And if you don't own a house you pay zero - now that's "fair" isn't it? All the non-contributors will be able to get in FREE [[for a while!) and see the lovely Art on somebody else's dime while the people that have to pay won't be able to afford the gas to get there.

**antongast** · August-05-12, 11:19 AM

Originally Posted by coracle

And if you don't own a house you pay zero - now that's "fair" isn't it? All the non-contributors will be able to get in FREE [[for a while!) and see the lovely Art on somebody else's dime while the people that have to pay won't be able to afford the gas to get there.

Nope, not fair at all. Sell your house and join us, it's great!

**English** · August-05-12, 11:22 AM

Originally Posted by coracle

The person that started this thread got the facts wrong. It's not "....12 mills with from any taxable income. You just be paying 12 dollars a year for the next ten years..." [[his words; not mine). It's a 0.20 mill based on the taxable value of your house. Most people's payments in Oakland County will be about $30/$60 per year or #300/$600 for 10 years. And if you don't own a house you pay zero - now that's "fair" isn't it? All the non-contributors will be able to get in FREE [[for a while!) and see the lovely Art on somebody else's dime while the people that have to pay won't be able to afford the gas to get there.

Um, the value of your home, and all the other homes in a region, is affected by the amenities of that region. We can do nothing about the weather, but we can do something about what Metro Detroit has to offer.

I've just moved to Philadelphia. Some of the issues here seem familiar, while others are not. There's no way that even the most Philly-hating suburbanite would advocate for this art museum to close down.

**Zacha341** · August-05-12, 11:36 AM

Hello English! You're so right! So glad to see you back!! We've missed you. I'll PM you...

Originally Posted by English

Um, the value of your home, and all the other homes in a region, is affected by the amenities of that region. We can do nothing about the weather, but we can do something about what Metro Detroit has to offer.

I've just moved to Philadelphia. Some of the issues here seem familiar, while others are not. There's no way that even the most Philly-hating suburbanite would advocate for this art museum to close down.

**narnarnar** · August-07-12, 09:34 AM

According to the 2010 IRS Form 990 [[Schedule J), the DIA president was compensated $440,000 and the VPs $215,000 and $206,000. With salaries like that I can't be expected to dig deeper into my pockets when my property taxes are already pushing our family budget to the limit.

**Jason** · August-05-12, 11:32 AM

Originally Posted by coracle

And if you don't own a house you pay zero - now that's "fair" isn't it? All the non-contributors will be able to get in FREE [[for a while!) and see the lovely Art on somebody else's dime while the people that have to pay won't be able to afford the gas to get there.

That's true but even though renters don't pay property taxes, the landlords do and those taxes are presumably passed indirectly onto the renter in their rent.

**nain rouge** · August-08-12, 03:07 PM

When Detroit turned into sprawl, Oakland County managed to capture most of the professional class [[look at all the office space in Southfield and Troy). As a result, Macomb County had to aggressively court industry. Many of the major roads in Macomb County are lined with industrial buildings.

Industry has always been a huge part of Metro Detroit, and it's no secret that industrial workers aren't known as great patrons of the art. The DIA is essentially an institution that caters to the professional class, and it's creation was a mere offshoot of the incredible wealth Detroit's business magnates created back in the day. So why are you surprised that the hardy, working class voters in Macomb County didn't overwhelmingly support a DIA millage? It doesn't really fit the personality of the county. I love the DIA, but let's be a little understanding here. Or are some of you simple too good for industry and industrial folks?

As far as the whole exurban development trend, Oakland County has been just as bad as Macomb County. Oakland County was just lucky that the downtowns of cities like Ferndale, Royal Oak, and Birmingham developed before the sprawl reached critical mass. Otherwise, Oakland County has followed the same blueprint as Macomb County.

In Macomb County, Mt. Clemens was the closest traditional downtown to the encroaching sprawl, and it was preserved in the grid. The rest of the downtowns were farther north, in Romeo, New Baltimore, and etc., where the economic activity of the county was traditionally centered. The historic villages of Warren [[yes, it does exist, on Mound between 13 & 14 Mile) and other cities were dinky farming outposts, hardly something that could significantly alter a suburban blueprint. Utica's traditional downtown doesn't even encompass one whole block.

**Detroitnerd** · August-08-12, 03:25 PM

Originally Posted by nain rouge

When Detroit turned into sprawl, Oakland County managed to capture most of the professional class [[look at all the office space in Southfield and Troy). As a result, Macomb County had to aggressively court industry. Many of the major roads in Macomb County are lined with industrial buildings.

Industry has always been a huge part of Metro Detroit, and it's no secret that industrial workers aren't known as great patrons of the art. The DIA is essentially an institution that caters to the professional class, and it's creation was a mere offshoot of the incredible wealth Detroit's business magnates created back in the day. So why are you surprised that the hardy, working class voters in Macomb County didn't overwhelmingly support a DIA millage? It doesn't really fit the personality of the county. I love the DIA, but let's be a little understanding here. Or are some of you simple too good for industry and industrial folks?

As far as the whole exurban development trend, Oakland County has been just as bad as Macomb County. Oakland County was just lucky that the downtowns of cities like Ferndale, Royal Oak, and Birmingham developed before the sprawl reached critical mass. Otherwise, Oakland County has followed the same blueprint as Macomb County.

In Macomb County, Mt. Clemens was the closest traditional downtown to the encroaching sprawl, and it was preserved in the grid. The rest of the downtowns were farther north, in Romeo, New Baltimore, and etc., where the economic activity of the county was traditionally centered. The historic villages of Warren [[yes, it does exist, on Mound between 13 & 14 Mile) and other cities were dinky farming outposts, hardly something that could significantly alter a suburban blueprint. Utica's traditional downtown doesn't even encompass one whole block.

Excellent post. Thanks for the evenhanded look at the state of affairs, with a good historical perspective.

**poobert** · August-13-12, 03:23 PM

I'm glad Detroitnerd has injected some - any - humor into such a sterile circular argument.

So you're against taxes to support a museum in principle. We get that, okay? However if anything I think this country - on both sides - is way, way too "principled" that is, totally unwilling to compromise. I realized the other side can be not so bad with Snyder, for example. For something like the DIA I'm glad people were to realize it's importance was greater than petty ideological differences.

Where does it end? Well, there. The sky isn't falling. We all know the Orchestra or Opera wouldn't get a millage to pass, and as a compromise I am okay with that.

The Macomb results are really interesting. I despise the argument that factory workers don't like the DIA - often made by those far removed from factory workers. My father was one and he voted for it. I was raised as blue collar as they come and voted for it. So did all the traditionally blue collar Macomb suburbs, except for Warren, which long ago went from blue-collar to collar-less. They seem content to preserve their low-brow reputation, which is well-earned.

**kenp** · August-13-12, 03:58 PM

Originally Posted by poobert

The Macomb results are really interesting. I despise the argument that factory workers don't like the DIA - often made by those far removed from factory workers. My father was one and he voted for it. I was raised as blue collar as they come and voted for it. So did all the traditionally blue collar Macomb suburbs, except for Warren, which long ago went from blue-collar to collar-less. They seem content to preserve their low-brow reputation, which is well-earned.

Good post.
I have been a little miffed at some of the Macomb comments. A lot of the posters are the ones who support unions and blue collar, yet their the same ones who think its funny to rip the people of Macomb county.