HFCC Student killed, 2 others wounded in Detroit Barber Shop shooting

[cla1945]

So you're saying he was an a$$hole? I'm talking about this young man and not speaking in general terms.

Jeez...I am speaking in general, not about anyone in particular.

[superduperman]

Well, I don't agree with that! There is something to be said for a forum where people can speak freely about topics they would normally dance around with strangers.

Lots of times, in surveys, people just don't tell the truth about race and class feelings. Then pollsters are blind-sided. They call this the Brady Effect, I think.

Places like this allow all of us, by reading these anonymous exchanges, to gauge what is really going on in people's minds about the topics of race and class. That's a good thing.

I think people can see what's going on and they do make judgments. Like it or not, we are not teen-agers any more who are admonished not to make judgments. That's so childish. Of course, we have to make judgments or we will not have any civil standards left.

Yeah,yeah I hear you but to call a dead man a coward whom you don't know is a cowardly act in itself. Yeah we can anonymously sit behind keyboards and say what we want but that doesn't make it right. This young man was someone's father, son and brother and he died probably fighting for his life. Here is an idea since you feel so strongly about calling this dead young man a "coward", when they announce his funeral arrangements in a couple of days, you should show up there and let all his people how you felt about this person whom you did not know. That to me is the act of a person who really believes what he sez and is willing to stand behind and on what he has said. Thats another form of bravery you know ,to say what is in your heart without fear of repercussions.

[Islandman]

Interesting, superduperman, that you are so upset about this young man being called a coward because he is dead.

Yet, you have no qualms about making a dismemberment joke about the couple found in the canal.

Are you going to show up at their funeral and say that?

[SWMAP]

How old are you? Are you a child speaking childish axioms?

You were raised not to speak ill of the dead - at the dinner table!
"He was someone's brother, son, etc" - those are domestic issues. It is what he did in the world, to people who aren't his mother, sons, brothers but just innocent bystanders that I commented on - drew fire to innocent bystanders - was NOT manly imo and I'm not worried about polite adages applying here.

Of course, i don't know what actually was in his mind. But I do know that i would have admired him more in death if he had drawn the fire away from the shop instead of running into it.

My opinion only.

[kenp]

Looking at the crime scene, the victim had no place to go. The shooter must have been waiting for him. There were casings found outside so the victim probably had little chance. The other victims most likely were shot because they were witnesses. Either that or the victim was an awful shot or the barber had a gun to.
Superduperman, if the victim was a friend I am sorry for your lose.

[firstandten]

To be honest if a guy came at me with intent and a gun, between crapping my pants and panicking, I wouldnt know what to do.
I keep thinking the victim didnt have a gun. Does anyone know what the policy for taking a gun in that barbershop was. I think it would be hard to hide it. Firstandten, you know the place, was there any rules for that.
I cant figure out why the barber was shot 5 times unless he was in a gun fight.

No rules, no metal detector the victim knew he shouldn't be wearing a gun in the shop. A gun is easy to hide. However even if the barber saw it he might not have gotten too excited because the kid was a longtime customer and
every body in the shop knew him. NOW, what the barber probability didn't know and the kid didn't say that there was someone after him. I'm sure that the gun in that light would have been seen differently.

[Shollin]

Interesting, superduperman, that you are so upset about this young man being called a coward because he is dead.

Yet, you have no qualms about making a dismemberment joke about the couple found in the canal.

Are you going to show up at their funeral and say that?

Being that the dismembered victims were white, and this guy is black, I'm playing the race card.

[fryar]

Might not be race, directly. Might well be that what strikes some people as an utterly absurd murder tale, almost fictional, is more relatable to others.

The ability to relate to the situations in question is probaby linked to how close one is to those types of situations. For historical reasons, that may well play out along racial lines, to some degree. But we shouldn't mistake that as racism in and of itself.

In a similar way, the argument in this thread is a little bit unnecessary, because the positions are not diametrically opposed, they can perfectly well coexist. This tale is utterly absurd and stupid, and yet very painful and personal for some.

That said, I have to go. I have some important commitments to attend to that will allow me to advance my social rank so I can eventually self-segregate with a higher class in some kind of blissful ignorance where such unfortunate events do not permeate my bubble and so I need not contribute to addressing them.

[superduperman]

Interesting, superduperman, that you are so upset about this young man being called a coward because he is dead.

Yet, you have no qualms about making a dismemberment joke about the couple found in the canal.

Are you going to show up at their funeral and say that?

Sure, when is the funeral and where?

[superduperman]

How old are you? Are you a child speaking childish axioms?

You were raised not to speak ill of the dead - at the dinner table!
"He was someone's brother, son, etc" - those are domestic issues. It is what he did in the world, to people who aren't his mother, sons, brothers but just innocent bystanders that I commented on - drew fire to innocent bystanders - was NOT manly imo and I'm not worried about polite adages applying here.

Of course, i don't know what actually was in his mind. But I do know that i would have admired him more in death if he had drawn the fire away from the shop instead of running into it.

My opinion only.

It doesn't matter how old I' am. Age isn't relevant to what I believe in. Back to what I was saying though, he while dodging bullets and hurling bullets took cover in a barbershop. You on the other had are taking cover behind a keyboard and anonymity, dodging words while also hurling them. Two similar actions with two very different outcomes of course, does that too make you a coward?

[superduperman]

I think the label 'thug' is applied because there's a picture of him showing gang signs.

Really? Gang signs? What gang? Let me tell you something you might not be aware of. When the Police don't know or have any answers about a young black male being gunned down "Gang Violence" is the goto because saying "We don't know" doesn't make a great quote. Calling him a "thug" and chalking this up to nothing more than "gang violence" when that's not the case is very dismissive and misleading on the part of the police. Let the facts come out before you all start making judgements about half a story, that's what intelligent people do, wait until thy have all information and then make a judgement. Don't pretend to know what goes on in these neighborhoods unless actually you have been in these neighborhoods and understand the dynamics of these places.

[trotwood]

cess pool of poorly written news articles and simple trashy commenters

weather or not its true in this case unless you have a large farm and its the 1930s there is no reason to have 6 kids at the age of 24. Completely irresponsible

I wasn't able to see the posts about this issue on WDIV's website.
As far as how many children the late young man had or didn't have I'm not sure what that has to do with me or why you're telling me about it.
I mean no disrespect to you but the number of kids he had isn't something I addressed in either of my posts so why bring it up to me?

[Cincinnati_Kid]

You all sure love to throw the word "Thug" around easily and frequently. Unless you knew this young man personally what reason would you need to label him a thug? Do you know what the word thug means and if you do why do you think it applys to this young man? Quick note though, often times people will substitute one word for the word they really want to say only because they can't or are afraid to say what they really feel, ijs.

Most people think anyone with a bunch of Tats, sagging jeans or shorts where you can see their drawers and _zz crack are thugs, especially if they're black. I see some white and arab young men that have adopted this so called style. Sagging pants disgust the _hit out of me.

[jolla]

Really? Gang signs? What gang?

I don't know what gang; can you tell by the picture?

[DetroitTeacher]

and the tats on his face...up near his eye. Can't tell what they are but it's usually a pretty good indicator of gang affiliation.

[superduperman]

and the tats on his face...up near his eye. Can't tell what they are but it's usually a pretty good indicator of gang affiliation.

Yup that seals it, them damn tattoos makes it clear he is gang affiliated, no doubt about it. I can show you dozens of pictures of folks with tats and they aren't affiliated with anyone but the tattoo bandwagon craze that every young person in Detroit seems to be apart of. If thats the litmus test that we use to tell if a person is in a "gang" then a whole lot of young people are in gangs, supposedly. By the way read this and take your pick
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teardrop_tattoo

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/in...5200359AAOqkDt

http://www.urbandictionary.com/defin...0drop%20tattoo

[DetroitTeacher]

I have tattoos. I do not have teardrop shaped tats on my face. That is pretty standard gang decor. I work with kids every day. I am pretty familiar with gang affiliations. That sign he's flashing in that pic along with the tats on the face...it screams gang. If you read my post and comprehended it, you's see that I said a pretty good indicator...

[superduperman]

[corktownyuppie]

I'm not necessarily agreeing with superduperman, but...

[[1) If I had to be a betting man, I'd say I'd bet on the side he probably was in a gang.

[[2) Under what circumstances do those teenage murders take place? The American Academy of Pediatrics writes:

"A common misperception is that teen homicides are largely related to crime, gang activity, or premeditated assault. The most common event precipitating a shooting is an argument, often over something later seen as trivial. Such shootings are usually impulsive, unplanned, and instantly regretted."

[[3) In further analysis...

http://www.davekopel.com/CJ/Mags/InnerCityCrisis.htm

The American Academy of Pediatrics' assertion about the non-criminal nature of teenage homicide cited only one study as support for its conclusions. That study, however, did not claim that teenage homicides did not involve "crime, gang activity, or premeditated assault." Nor did the cited study claim that teenage shootings were "impulsive, unplanned, and instantly regretted." The cited study only discussed the relationship between murderer and victim, and showed [[not surprisingly) that murderers generally target people who have offended them, rather than total strangers.27

So was it gang related? Possibly. Maybe even probably. But the most realistic assertion is that one dude got offended by the actions of another, didn't have control of his emotions, along with access to a gun, combined with societal conditioning that makes this is an acceptable way of conflict resolution.

From what I understand the #1 predictive factor over whether or not an individual will be involved in perpetrating violent crime is not his/her income, race, or level of education.

It's whether or not he/she witnessed or was close to someone who witnessed a violent crime during their youth.

[ejames01]

You all sure love to throw the word "Thug" around easily and frequently. Unless you knew this young man personally what reason would you need to label him a thug? Do you know what the word thug means and if you do why do you think it applys to this young man? Quick note though, often times people will substitute one word for the word they really want to say only because they can't or are afraid to say what they really feel, ijs.

Thug Thug Thugs. There are many other dirtbags that will take this guy's place.

[313WX]

It's interesting that we're assuming without question the guy here was a thug and in a gang, yet the folks who assumed the two white boys who were killed were up to no good [[selling drugs) were essentially told to fuck off.

[corktownyuppie]

It's interesting that we're assuming without question the guy here was a thug and in a gang, yet the folks who assumed the two white boys who were killed were up to no good [[selling drugs) were essentially told to fuck off.

By some, perhaps. Two white kids shot execution style in a random field? That doesn't sound random to me.

[superduperman]

Thug Thug Thugs. There are many other dirtbags that will take this guy's place.

Thuggery The English word "thug" is a truncation of 'thuggee'. It is one of many Indian words borrowed into English during the British colonial period. The English connotation of 'thug' is synonymous with terms like hoodlum and hooligan, indicating a person [[or may or may not be anti-social) who harasses others, usually for hire. People regarded as thugs might commit assault [[or 'menace'), battery, even robbery and grievous bodily harm, but they usually stop short of murder. Additionally, "thugs" usually travel in pairs, though they can work alone or in groups of four to six members, and are typically open about their presence [[except to law enforcement officials); while "Thuggee" were covert and operated as members of a group, often called a "Thuggee cult" by the British. Hence, the word "Thuggee" is capitalised while the word "thug" usually is not; which enables distinction of a "Thug" [[here, a short form of "Thuggee") from a "thug". In the heyday of Thuggee activity, travellers were typically part of a caravan group, so the term Thuggee typically referred to killing of a large number of people in a single operation. This aspect distinguishes Thuggee from similar concept of Dacoity, which means simple armed robbery. Dacoity has similarities with the terms brigand and bandit from European and Latin American experience, but there appear to be no exact Western parallels for Thuggee. Perhaps the closest concepts would be the format of piracy, though this is solely maritime robbery [[usually with murder), and the earlier, but similar, format of raids on coastal settlements by Viking seafarers. Some aspects, however, are reminiscent of the Mafia group of organisations. Between them, these classes of criminal activity illustrate some of the mystique that attached to the Thugs and the complex mixture of fear and dread of these murderous Alpha predators that was felt by the ordinary people who might well be their potential victims. There is some question as to the extent of the religious dimension of Thuggee. Most contemporary sources described Thuggee as being a religious cult, but some modern sources feel it was merely a specialised form of organised crime or paramilitary activity, with no particular religious dimension beyond the normal piety of the villagers from whom its members were recruited.

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thuggee

[Goose]

are there any other safe zones in the D, where gun play is off limits???, im a suburbanite and only venture into the city for things like Tiger Games, Red Wing Games, and some Slows BBQ, are there areas off limits for gun play or if something breaks out should I hightail it to the nearest barbershop..... is it like "ghoul", where if my hand is on the barbershop door i'm safe from being shot........???? also, if I go downtown and carry my clippers and scissors, does that make me a traveling barber and off limits to lead???? curious, just want to stay safe in the D....

[Zacha341]

I was waiting for someone to bring up the origin of this term. Thank you sdm!

Thuggery The English word "thug" is a truncation of 'thuggee'. It is one of many Indian words borrowed into English during the British colonial period. The English connotation of 'thug' is synonymous with terms like hoodlum and hooligan, indicating a person [[or may or may not be anti-social) who harasses others, usually for hire...

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thuggee