City Target Store for Downtown Detroit?

[wolverine]

Sullivan? Jagged Floorplan? Must be Carson's!

It was and they weren't the best stewards. I believe they were given incentives to vacate the store early to allow for redevelopment.

[DetroitPlanner]

They didn't remove the corner grating did they?

edit: this answers my question: http://www.wbez.org/blogs/lee-bey/20...t-store-101159

yes they did. looks good from afar!

[SWMAP]

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/26/bu...stores.html?hp

I love the photo. couldn't you just see this on the east corner of Woodward and grand River?

[Wesley Mouch]

New York Times article... on suburban vs. urban shopping trends. http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/26/bu...s.html?_r=1&hp

[Parkguy]

Thanks, Parkguy. I didn't have the population stats but I knew the downtown population in Seattle was larger than Chelan/Douglas counties [[where I am) combined.

And he's right, one of the keys is the urban population, which tends to be underserved in the basic needs department. I don't know the city center population of Detroit, but if it came even near the Seattle level, you'd see more retail in the downtown core.

Here's a really detailed analysis of demographics of downtown Seattle, comparing downtown to all other Seattle neighborhoods. This is the kind of report Data Driven Detroit produces, but this one is exceptionally readable and rich in infographics.

There is a lot of data on the Data Driven Detroit site, but they've really only been at it for a couple of years, and there are a lot of gaps in the kinds of reports they've produced to date.

[stasu1213]

Downtown Detroit will not get a Target Store for these reasons:

1. It needs plenty of parking.

2. Plenty of security. There's too much violent crime and less police response.

3. Downtown Detroit operates as a 9 to 5 commercial and finanicial district construct. On weekends there will less pedestrian and automobile traffic unless entertainment venues came in.

Since Downtown Seattle has the plenty of pedestrian and automobile traffic and fast regional growth. [[ In which I went there in 2007) They will get a Downtown Target. Don't think fast about getting special exotic stores in Downtown Detroit. It's going to take time and years and years to get off the drawing boards. Just like the Somerset Collection City Lofts in Merchant's Row. It was slow and risky step but it pay off with more exotic retail. Bringing retail back to Downtown Detroit will take some baby steps and not taking giant leaps.

Pedestrial traffic by those who live permanently or temporarly downtown and the Lafayette Park would make up of the lack of parking. More stores downtown would open on the weekends if CityTarget would open on the weekend. They will get just as much business on the weekends it would on weekdays. Somebody has to start the weekend shopping off; why not CityTarget. Downtown Detroit once had retail operating on the weekends. I would think that a CityTarget would work in Lafayette Park in place of the Dollar General if the owners of the strip mall would provide much better security for the mall especially a guards station. Shoppers would not have to worry about parking in that mall and the mall is so close to downtown.

[casscorridor]

Pedestrial traffic by those who live permanently or temporarly downtown and the Lafayette Park would make up of the lack of parking. More stores downtown would open on the weekends if CityTarget would open on the weekend. They will get just as much business on the weekends it would on weekdays. Somebody has to start the weekend shopping off; why not CityTarget. Downtown Detroit once had retail operating on the weekends. I would think that a CityTarget would work in Lafayette Park in place of the Dollar General if the owners of the strip mall would provide much better security for the mall especially a guards station. Shoppers would not have to worry about parking in that mall and the mall is so close to downtown.

A CityTarget can work Downtown but I don't think Lafayette Park is a good location. I am thinking more Hudson's block, right on Woodward and highly visible. Or maybe even Mack and Woodward because it is the bridge between Midtown/University/Medical Center and Downtown [[see Whole Foods).

[stasu1213]

I know that Merchant's Row would be better for the CityTarget or that vacant brick building that sit on the corner of Griswold and State. I had suggested the Lafayette Park area because it is downtown and has plenty parking. A police, sheriff, or homeland security mini station in that mall would deter most of the crime that could happen in the strip mall. I hope when CityTarget decide to open a store in downtown detroit they will adopt the shuttle bus idea that would bring customers from midtown, palmer woods, lafayette park, and Indian Village to the store. Small commuters busses that runs every 10 to 15 minutes going in every direction would be a good idea for the store and the communities in detroit

[wolverine]

If Detroit were to build a city Target on the fringe parts of downtown perhaps they could construct it as part of larger mixed use complex.

Here's the next City Target for Chicago's Southside. It has a park integrated as well.

[detroitbob]

Parking in the LOOP is pricey...I recently parked in the garage opposite Macy's State Street, at Wabash and Randolph, got my ticket vaiidated at Macy's desk, make a purchase and ran down the street to Garrett Popcorn---spening all of 1 hour and with the 3.00 Macy's validation discount spent 18.00 usd. Parking at meters in the Loop can run 15.00 per hour at prime spots...the meters are privatized. However, the basement of Target in the Carson building has a subway entrance from the Red Line as does the basement of Marshall Field/Macy's.

Does Downtown Detroit have enough foot traffic? Probably not enough to run the same hours as Chgo, Seattle or Atlanta BUT deals will be cut. As an example the Border's store made money UNTIL the landlors [[Compuware) damn near doubled the rent. The City Target in Chgo is running M-Fr: 7:00AM- 10:00PM Sa: 8:00AM - 10:00PM Su: 8:00AM- 8:00PM but with the growing employment base downtown and the influx of new residents and still affordable parking it might happen sooner than later.

[iheartthed]

A CityTarget can work Downtown but I don't think Lafayette Park is a good location. I am thinking more Hudson's block, right on Woodward and highly visible. Or maybe even Mack and Woodward because it is the bridge between Midtown/University/Medical Center and Downtown [[see Whole Foods).

Other than in very close proximity to the Rosa Parks Bus Terminal downtown, Mack/MLK and Woodward probably makes the most sense to locate a CityTarget than mostly anywhere in the Detroit right now.

[Danny]

Pedestrial traffic by those who live permanently or temporarly downtown and the Lafayette Park would make up of the lack of parking. More stores downtown would open on the weekends if CityTarget would open on the weekend. They will get just as much business on the weekends it would on weekdays. Somebody has to start the weekend shopping off; why not CityTarget. Downtown Detroit once had retail operating on the weekends. I would think that a CityTarget would work in Lafayette Park in place of the Dollar General if the owners of the strip mall would provide much better security for the mall especially a guards station. Shoppers would not have to worry about parking in that mall and the mall is so close to downtown.

"It's more the just finding building a hugh parking space. What about security? Detroit is right now has a very low police response. Target has private security, but they can only handle within the perimeter of the store. Downtown Detroit is a 9 to 5 business center with more pedestrial traffic during special entertainment venues. There will less customer patronage in City Target and more at the outskirts. Until regional infrastucture and job growth increases in Dowtown Detroit a Target Store will NOT come. Not in 50 years."

[louis]

i agree with Danny, downtown Detroit is not walk able enough for a target. however if it were to be on woodward or down the cass corridor i think it could work

[wolverine]

Parking in the LOOP is pricey...I recently parked in the garage opposite Macy's State Street, at Wabash and Randolph, got my ticket vaiidated at Macy's desk, make a purchase and ran down the street to Garrett Popcorn---spening all of 1 hour and with the 3.00 Macy's validation discount spent 18.00 usd. Parking at meters in the Loop can run 15.00 per hour at prime spots...the meters are privatized. However, the basement of Target in the Carson building has a subway entrance from the Red Line as does the basement of Marshall Field/Macy's.

Does Downtown Detroit have enough foot traffic? Probably not enough to run the same hours as Chgo, Seattle or Atlanta BUT deals will be cut. As an example the Border's store made money UNTIL the landlors [[Compuware) damn near doubled the rent. The City Target in Chgo is running M-Fr: 7:00AM- 10:00PM Sa: 8:00AM - 10:00PM Su: 8:00AM- 8:00PM but with the growing employment base downtown and the influx of new residents and still affordable parking it might happen sooner than later.

You were scammed on the parking. When I've rented a car to go home later in the day it was $8 for 12 hours with the Macy's validation in the garage.

All day parking in the loop is $14. 1 hour parking in the loop is $14. Seriously there needs to be a law against the fine print. See the trick? For grocery stores downtown it's free if you buy something

[DetroitPlanner]

i agree with Danny, downtown Detroit is not walk able enough for a target. however if it were to be on woodward or down the cass corridor i think it could work

And thats why target has a store at Fairlane Meadows, Fairlane Green, and a ton of other places with no sidewalks?

[wolverine]

Does Detroit count pedestrians at intersections and make the data publicly available?

[royce]

i agree with Danny, downtown Detroit is not walk able enough for a target. however if it were to be on woodward or down the cass corridor i think it could work

Louis, aren't you contradicting yourself? On Woodward or down Cass Corridor is essentially downtown, depending on where you are placing the store. The Hudson's site, in my opinion, is the best place for a CityTarget downtown. It has the greatest potential because of its partially-built foundation and its underground parking deck. The second best spot would be the Monroe/Cadillac Square block. At either spot, a residential tower above the store would be a must. Residents would definitely use a store connected to their building. Now, a CityTarget at Woodward and I-75 along with a hockey arena might work, but there would still need to be a residential component to the development. Again, the Hudson's site is ideal.

[detmsp]

There's really no point in arguing about the best location for a City Target right now. Downtown stores like this rely on residents who live within walking distance. There just isn't any area of downtown that has the population density to support a store like this... yet

[downtownguy]

Again, the Hudson's site is ideal.

Maybe, maybe not from the Target PR folks perspective. They could hype the historical nature of the site: Now! 30 years later... Retailing returns to the ground where the world's largest department store once stood!

But folks with longer memories will remember that Target's parent company closed the downtown Hudson's after getting it in a merger. Target [[Dayton Hudson) was smarting so much from bad PR after the closure that they mandated the annual Thanksgiving Parade -- sponsored by Hudson's for decades and culminating with Santa outside the store -- end the parade at Grand Circus Park so as not to remind people the empty hulk further south was their doing.

[Danny]

And thats why target has a store at Fairlane Meadows, Fairlane Green, and a ton of other places with no sidewalks?

"That's the way big box corporations operate, they want their big and large superstores with big and large parking lots so they can sell big and large products. They need to make a profit, they don't care what location, place or enviroment to put it. And they don't care about your well being only money that is in their pockets and stay rich forever!"

[detroitbob]

Again, this is a new concept for Target and Walmart...smaller neighborhood or urban stores. They are not full line stores.

[detroitbob]

If downtown Seattle proper isn't what is was 35 years ago, I'd gladly take what it is today. Last fall the stores were mobbed, transit clean, efficient and affordable, restraunts plentiful and busy...

[Hermod]

"That's the way big box corporations operate, they want their big and large superstores with big and large parking lots so they can sell big and large products. They need to make a profit, they don't care what location, place or enviroment to put it. And they don't care about your well being only money that is in their pockets and stay rich forever!"

Danny, that is why people open a retail business. They want to make money by selling stuff for more than they paid for it.

[Parkguy]

If downtown Seattle proper isn't what is was 35 years ago, I'd gladly take what it is today. Last fall the stores were mobbed, transit clean, efficient and affordable, restraunts plentiful and busy...

Absolutely true. What I meant to point out is that they made a direct, pointed effort to improve conditions downtown, bring in full-time residents, and offer services to draw them and keep them there. It has worked. It took a good 25 years to do it, but it worked. They did it one block at a time, one district at a time.

[stasu1213]

"It's more the just finding building a hugh parking space. What about security? Detroit is right now has a very low police response. Target has private security, but they can only handle within the perimeter of the store. Downtown Detroit is a 9 to 5 business center with more pedestrial traffic during special entertainment venues. There will less customer patronage in City Target and more at the outskirts. Until regional infrastucture and job growth increases in Dowtown Detroit a Target Store will NOT come. Not in 50 years."

Did you feel this way when you had heard that the CityLoft Somerset Collection was going to experiement in downtown Detroit? Did you think that Cityloft was a bad idea that will never work There are police in the downtown area. There hands are tied by the man that you call the Mayor and council for not providing additional protection downtown. That could be done by not having the meter maid checking meters after 6pm Mon thru Sat and use the money that pay them to pay the cops to operate downtown especially after business hours. More police presents after 5pm is much more that balancing the city's budget through writiing tickets to cars parked at expired meters. Another idea for safety is let Downtown have it's own police or security patrol. That will free up the detroit police to patrol other parts of the city where they are needed. I remember at one time the police were walking the beat in the downtown area. Some were riding bikes. This was when Evans was Chief. Safety should not be the issue if the incompetent elected officials stop making bad decisions pertaining to public safety