City Target Store for Downtown Detroit?

[DetroitPlanner]

I just passed by the city Target soon to open next week. It would be perfect in downtown Detroit. You could combine buildings if you had to

Love how they uncovered and restored the old columns

What building is this Target in? You're in Chicago, correct?

[Richard]

Our Guests

• Median age of 40
• Median household income of approximately $64K
• Approximately 43% have children at home
• About 57% have completed college

I guess all of the desired 30 somethings destined for downtown will have to stick with dollar general.

[bailey]

Our Guests

• Median age of 40
• Median household income of approximately $64K
• Approximately 43% have children at home
• About 57% have completed college

I guess all of the desired 30 somethings destined for downtown will have to stick with dollar general.

I think it has a little more to with the other factors than age.

Detroit residents-

- Median Age of 34.8
- Median House income of $26,098
- Approximately 60% have children at home
- Over age 25 with Bachelor's or higher 11%
- Unemployment ​16.9%

[Richard]

I think it has a little more to with the other factors than age.

Detroit residents-

- Median Age of 34.8
- Median House income of $26,098
- Approximately 60% have children at home
- Over age 25 with Bachelor's or higher 11%
- Unemployment ​16.9%

The age remark was my snide comment,the numbers are theirs based on store demographics.

Are the above numbers the downtown demographics that would support the store? Or are they including the region.

[bailey]

The age remark was my snide comment,the numbers are theirs based on store demographics.

Are the above numbers the downtown demographics that would support the store? Or are they including the region.

Those are Detroit numbers. Which is why..along with the discussion about 5 finger discount issues, it's a long shot that any investment in the form of national retail at this level is going to happen anytime soon anywhere but at the very fringes of Detroit where they can at least try to draw from the burbs. But who knows... There are worse places that have one.

Michigan is
- Median Age 45
- Median Household income of $45k
- Bachelors or higher 25%
- Unemployment 8.9%

[iheartthed]

I think it has a little more to with the other factors than age.

Detroit residents-

- Median Age of 34.8
- Median House income of $26,098
- Approximately 60% have children at home
- Over age 25 with Bachelor's or higher 11%
- Unemployment ​16.9%

I don't think those city wide stats actually mean much to the analysts looking for City Target potential sites. Day time population, pedestrian traffic, tourist traffic, etc., would probably be of much greater concern. Downtown Detroit really doesn't do well on those points either though, so I don't think it will be on the list of potential locations for quite some time.

[bailey]

I don't think those city wide stats actually mean much to the analysts looking for City Target potential sites. Day time population, pedestrian traffic, tourist traffic, etc., would probably be of much greater concern. Downtown Detroit really doesn't do well on those points either though, so I don't think it will be on the list of potential locations for quite some time.

Yes. agree. Was just using the ones that the company apparently posted. I just assumed daytime shopping population/pedestrian traffic/tourist traffic to be an irrelevant number in Detroit and it's got be close to an effective 0 on the scale. Which, you're right, is probably the number 1 reason this won't happen here.

[Danny]

See what I mean! Look at the regional demographics before you implement a plan to build some exotic fancy store. Downtown Detroit has to grow with global regional infrastructure before its almost vacant buildings can be occupied with retail especially at a Downtown Target or a some flagship store. It's going to be a very long time before Downtown Detroit gets better. It least Dan Gilbert, Peter Karmanos and Mike Illitch get the ideal. They are really help reinvent Downtown Detroit to their liking. No more Coleman A. Young's Afrocentric idealism. Economic diversity is wave of the 21st Century and beyond. Economic diversity and regionalization of world trade will save Detroit from its woes. Don't try to stop the Illitches, Kamanos' and Gilberts. They are the one are running the show. We should thank them for their business ventures.

[Wesley Mouch]

Our Guests

• Median age of 40
• Median household income of approximately $64K
• Approximately 43% have children at home
• About 57% have completed college

I guess all of the desired 30 somethings destined for downtown will have to stick with dollar general.

The fact that the listed demographic is their current average doesn't mean that's why they need.

What they need is a population OF A CERTAIN SIZE and CERTAIN SPENDING to make money.

They know exactly what they need. They'll be in downtown Detroit in 30 seconds after we have that population.

So in the meantime, just get to work making downtown healthy -- and keeping your taxes in line with the rest of the world.

[Meddle]

No more Coleman A. Young's Afrocentric idealism.

Well, we saw where that got downtown didn't we? More or less vacant from wall to wall.

People say they want downtown to thrive, but then they talk down any effort to build it up. With very few permanent residents downtown, demographics will be easy to change should the right businesses and developers take an interest.

[daveyarm]

Downtown Detroit will not get a Target Store for these reasons:

1. It needs plenty of parking.

2. Plenty of security. There's too much violent crime and less police response.

3. Downtown Detroit operates as a 9 to 5 commercial and finanicial district construct. On weekends there will less pedestrian and automobile traffic unless entertainment venues came in.

Since Downtown Seattle has the plenty of pedestrian and automobile traffic and fast regional growth. [[ In which I went there in 2007) They will get a Downtown Target. Don't think fast about getting special exotic stores in Downtown Detroit. It's going to take time and years and years to get off the drawing boards. Just like the Somerset Collection City Lofts in Merchant's Row. It was slow and risky step but it pay off with more exotic retail. Bringing retail back to Downtown Detroit will take some baby steps and not taking giant leaps.

Where does he get the "too much violent crime"? Downtown proper has very little of it. Ask the Police: they will tell you downtown crimes are largely those of property, specifically auto break-ins. Go out a mile into some neighborhoods, and that changes.......but downtown itself does not have a significant violent crime problem.

[Wesley Mouch]

Well, we saw where that got downtown didn't we? More or less vacant from wall to wall.

People say they want downtown to thrive, but then they talk down any effort to build it up. With very few permanent residents downtown, demographics will be easy to change should the right businesses and developers take an interest.

Almost every developer in the planet has an 'interest'. What they're waiting for is the right traffic and for the city to do what they expect of a city -- keep it safe. And mostly get out of the way of developers. [[Of course we've also trained them to wait for all kinds of development benefits -- grants, programs, money, tax rebates, etc...)

[bailey]

Where does he get the "too much violent crime"? Downtown proper has very little of it. Ask the Police: they will tell you downtown crimes are largely those of property, specifically auto break-ins. Go out a mile into some neighborhoods, and that changes.......but downtown itself does not have a significant violent crime problem.

I don't know...maybe this is just anecdotal, but of the people I've known who profess to being reluctant to go to Detroit, it's not the thought of getting killed that keeps them from going there. It's the significant [[relatively speaking) risk that they are going to come out and find their car broken into or be a victim of some other form of property crime if they choose to go for a night out in Detroit vs. B'ham or RO.

I would think that would weigh just as heavy on a business in picking a location. yeah there aren't shootings every day, but the nickel dime, smash and grabs still keep people away.

[Wesley Mouch]

I don't know...maybe this is just anecdotal, but of the people I've known who profess to being reluctant to go to Detroit, it's not the thought of getting killed that keeps them from going there. It's the significant [[relatively speaking) risk that they are going to come out and find their car broken into or be a victim of some other form of property crime if they choose to go for a night out in Detroit vs. B'ham or RO.

I would think that would weigh just as heavy on a business in picking a location. yeah there aren't shootings every day, but the nickel dime, smash and grabs still keep people away.

I agree.

Its not the idea of violent crime. It the idea of bothersome crime and activity. Broken car windows. Being aggressively panhandled.

[[That said, it sure is better than it once was -- but it still could be a lot better.)

[Wheels]

I still like the idea of a "Pop-Up" Target. It would be harder to hit.

[Hypestyles]

...perhaps Target may wait to see what happens with whole foods and the meijer projects.. we'll see.. how prolific is Target in Michigan compared to a Wal-Mart?

[coracle]

Which is why you start with smaller versions of traditional retailers. Get a cluster going of stores that people regularly go to instead of the wigs shops and whatever else infiltrated the area.

If the money is moving back downtown to some of the business that have been highlighted, this may be a good opportunity to start bringing retailers back as well.

You don't need megastores with 500 car parking lots. Mini versions of Target, Macys, Dillards and even some of the Somerset type boutiques might be the ticket. Places where the scumbags would be out of place and not have the opportunity to victimize.

But keep them all open 24/7 to confuse those that would be looking for an opportunity to break in.

[Parkguy]

The downtown Seattle area [[half-a-dozen neighborhoods surrounding the CBD) has about 50,000 residents, and the last two mayors have made it a mission to increase that. Think Detroit's "15 by 15" initiative that was starting from a good population base to begin with. [[By the way, I think the 15 by 15 program will be more than successful here.)

Parking is handled in an urban way in Seattle. Even in outlying neighborhoods new retail and apartment style buildings are required to have either basement level or rooftop parking. Even the grocery stores.

It wasn't that long ago that downtown Seattle was no-man's land after business hours. It can be done. The article that goes with the video talks about what that block used to be like-- and it is right across the avenue from the main entrance to the Pike Place Market. I know that right now if you walk four blocks north, the neighborhood gets pretty sketchy real fast. And the article also talks about retrofitting mostly empty office buildings in the area. It can be done.

[stasu1213]

The Dollar General that's in LAfayette Park has been literally robbed blind since it opened. The corporate heads were weighing the possibility of shuttering it.

So the short story, if a measely Dollar General is having trouble trying to maintain a profitable location due to its amazingly high shrinkage downtown, there's no way a Target is going to risk investing down there.

Not to mention, I hear the Target at Eastland has the highest shrinkage rate of all the stores in the country, and the corporate heads in Minneapolis have debated time and time again over shuttering it.

Dollar General has poor managment where a cashier is hardly at the cash registers leaving the front of the store unattended for anyone to come in and shoplift. The only time that someone had tried to rob the place using a gun was back in the spring when one of the two degenerate sub human was shot to death by the security guard. The strip mall in lafayette park need better security. I had suggested that to Lance last year. More store would come once security is beefed up in the strip mall. I had once suggested that a mini sheriff or police station be installed in the mall.

I think that the Kresges and Woolword buildings are large enough for a City Target. Target has it's own security force. A City Target does not need a parking lot for there are many people who live in the downtown area. Target is a step above CVS, Walgreens, and Rite Aid. I don't know what another person was thinking when that comparison was mad. Detroiters must get rid of the "It will never work in the area" attitude. Somerset Collection downtown had proven that theory wrong.

[313WX]

Dollar General has poor managment where a cashier is hardly at the cash registers leaving the front of the store unattended for anyone to come in and shoplift. The only time that someone had tried to rob the place using a gun was back in the spring when one of the two degenerate sub human was shot to death by the security guard. The strip mall in lafayette park need better security. I had suggested that to Lance last year. More store would come once security is beefed up in the strip mall. I had once suggested that a mini sheriff or police station be installed in the mall.

I know the Dollar General on 7 Mile and Schoenherr now has a full time security person on staff since those two teenagers try to rob it a couple months ago.

It probably depends on the location. I know the Dollar General on Davison and Conant features an automatic voice message that announces frequently you're being watched [[for your safety), like many of the Family Dollar stores across town.

The thing is, I know stores like Dollar General can't afford to staff their stores up to gazoo and expect to make a profit at the same time, especially since their giving a lot of their items away at sometimes below suggested retail price anyway. On the other hand, I'm sure they don't want to go completely third-world either and put everything on lock down, thus scaring away the customers.

I think the reason stores such as CVS and Rite-Aid manage to "thrive" in the city is over 2/3 of their revenue comes from filling prescriptions, and they do pretty much have a monopoly on pharmacies in the city [[poor people have to take medicine to get well too).

[Hermod]

...perhaps Target may wait to see what happens with whole foods and the meijer projects.. we'll see.. how prolific is Target in Michigan compared to a Wal-Mart?

Target was proliferating in Michigan long before Walmart got here. Whether Walmart has caught up and passed Target, I do not know.

[wolverine]

What building is this Target in? You're in Chicago, correct?

It's in the historic Sullivan Center. It occupies a portion of the first and second floors, negotiating a very jagged floorplan since they share floorspace with other tenants. It's this complicated adaptation that makes me wonder if they could theoretically combine building floorplates to create a single store in other places.

[stasu1213]

I love the idea of Somerset CityLoft in Downtown Detroit. I also think that Detroiters will be a little more jubilant when a Target opens in downtown Detroit. Mayor Bing could only promote somethin that he is use to; expensive shops for the so-called uppercrust. I am not knocking CityLofts. I just want middle of the road ideas for shops for the middle of the road class of people who lives in the area. Please, no more bars and clubs for downtown.

[douglasm]

Thanks, Parkguy. I didn't have the population stats but I knew the downtown population in Seattle was larger than Chelan/Douglas counties [[where I am) combined.

And he's right, one of the keys is the urban population, which tends to be underserved in the basic needs department. I don't know the city center population of Detroit, but if it came even near the Seattle level, you'd see more retail in the downtown core.

[DetroitPlanner]

It's in the historic Sullivan Center. It occupies a portion of the first and second floors, negotiating a very jagged floorplan since they share floorspace with other tenants. It's this complicated adaptation that makes me wonder if they could theoretically combine building floorplates to create a single store in other places.

Sullivan? Jagged Floorplan? Must be Carson's!