City Target Store for Downtown Detroit?

[313WX]

Did you feel this way when you had heard that the CityLoft Somerset Collection was going to experiement in downtown Detroit? Did you think that Cityloft was a bad idea that will never work There are police in the downtown area. There hands are tied by the man that you call the Mayor and council for not providing additional protection downtown. That could be done by not having the meter maid checking meters after 6pm Mon thru Sat and use the money that pay them to pay the cops to operate downtown especially after business hours. More police presents after 5pm is much more that balancing the city's budget through writiing tickets to cars parked at expired meters. Another idea for safety is let Downtown have it's own police or security patrol. That will free up the detroit police to patrol other parts of the city where they are needed. I remember at one time the police were walking the beat in the downtown area. Some were riding bikes. This was when Evans was Chief. Safety should not be the issue if the incompetent elected officials stop making bad decisions pertaining to public safety

As for the bolded, who's going to pay for it?

At least with the WSU police, the federal and state government largely subsidizes it.

[stasu1213]

As for the bolded, who's going to pay for it?

At least with the WSU police, the federal and state government largely subsidizes it.

The businesses in the downtown area could pay for the patrol especially if they get some type of incentive or a break on their taxes

[DetroitPlanner]

I doubt the feds subsidize WSU police.

One issue with having separate police will be what to do when a big event or an emergency happens. It would make it harder to move officers.

[downtownguy]

The businesses in the downtown area could pay for the patrol especially if they get some type of incentive or a break on their taxes

Wait. Businesses pay taxes. Taxes cover services, including police. If businesses pay for extra downtown security in return for a tax break, how does this add up to more police if there is now less taxes to pay for them?

[wolverine]

Wait. Businesses pay taxes. Taxes cover services, including police. If businesses pay for extra downtown security in return for a tax break, how does this add up to more police if there is now less taxes to pay for them?

No, the dollars paid by businesses for these services go further. Never heard of them getting a tax break in return, but it's possible these expenses would be entirely tax deductible. For example, my apartment building and shops on our street pay for private security, landscape maintenance, daily sweeping, and weekly sidewalk powerwashing. It's helped to prevent shoplifting, trespassing, loitering homeless, and bad public behavior, etc. Security rarely interacts with people, just call one of the cops walking the beat nearby.

[stasu1213]

No, the dollars paid by businesses for these services go further. Never heard of them getting a tax break in return, but it's possible these expenses would be entirely tax deductible. For example, my apartment building and shops on our street pay for private security, landscape maintenance, daily sweeping, and weekly sidewalk powerwashing. It's helped to prevent shoplifting, trespassing, loitering homeless, and bad public behavior, etc. Security rarely interacts with people, just call one of the cops walking the beat nearby.

Thanks wolverine. I was going to say that the businesses downtown could come together and hire an armed security patrol for the downtown area. It could be used as a writeoff. I had saw a polieman on a bicycle in Greektown today. I wish I could see more of bicycle mounted police throughout downtown. Security for downtown could be easily worked out. That is only if the elected officials are willing to work with the business owners and entreprenuers in the downtown area

[313WX]

I doubt the feds subsidize WSU police.

It does, directly or indirectly.

I highly doubt majority of the colleges would survive a school year without the student loan programs, at least as huge and bureaucratic as they are.

[DetroitPlanner]

It does, directly or indirectly.

I highly doubt majority of the colleges would survive a school year without the student loan programs, at least as huge and bureaucratic as they are.

Do you know how public universities work? These are creatures of the state. There are no federal colleges! Yeah they had a land grant program 150 year ago, thats how we got MSU! lol

[Islandman]

As for the bolded, who's going to pay for it?

At least with the WSU police, the federal and state government largely subsidizes it.

Exxon Mobil does this [[a private security force) in Fort Worth for their XTO subsidiary, along with Fort Worth police. Apprently according to some older employees I worked with, their downtown was a horrible area, all relative of course, now it it bustling will all sorts of generic eateries.

[313WX]

Do you know how public universities work? These are creatures of the state. There are no federal colleges! Yeah they had a land grant program 150 year ago, thats how we got MSU! lol

I never said universities weren't creations of the state.

That doesn't mean they're also not dependent on the Fed's teet, like SO MANY OTHER things today.

Why do you think all of the for-profit colleges have popped up in the last 30-40 years out of nowhere?

Look at it this way. Student Loan debt is $1 Trillion dollars currently. As a taxpayer to the federal government, you just handed these "creations of the state" $1 Trillion dollars, much of which, based on the current economic crisis, you will not get back.

When a student takes out federal loans, the Fed writes a check to the school for however much they qualify for. If you raise tuition costs, the Fed will just simply put a BIGGER number on that check they write to you. Meanwhile, thanks to the economic crisis which is now basically forcing anyone who doesn't have a post-high school education to get one to even have a shot at maintaining a comfortable standard of living, you can raise tuition rates even MORE as students will still be lining up the door to enroll in your school anyway, and thus the Fed will write you a check with even BIGGER numbers on it.

Nice Ponzi Scheme, isn't it? In addition to the funding you receive from the state and the grants you receive from the alumni, you now are a part of the money gravy train the Fed has started. All of this money is tax-free too. So now, in addition to the money needed to teach the kids [[I doubt the cost of simply teaching a student without all the frills colleges have now has risen as much over the years as the tutition rates), you have the money to build all sorts of entirely brand new institution and create your own police force, and pay the school administration outrageous salaries.

That gravy train of course has to end eventually, because there are already too many people with college degrees, the budget deficit is already way too deep [[what do you think the government's going to cut first? SS, Medicare, Defense, or Student Loans?) and the taxpayers have already handed these colleges $1 Trillion dollars that they'll never get back, $1 Trillion dollars that could have went to other useful endeavors.

[downtownguy]

No, the dollars paid by businesses for these services go further. Never heard of them getting a tax break in return, but it's possible these expenses would be entirely tax deductible. For example, my apartment building and shops on our street pay for private security, landscape maintenance, daily sweeping, and weekly sidewalk powerwashing. It's helped to prevent shoplifting, trespassing, loitering homeless, and bad public behavior, etc. Security rarely interacts with people, just call one of the cops walking the beat nearby.

If a private patrol were hired, I'm pretty sure those expenses would be a tax deductible expense. However, since Stasu used the term police, I thought he was looking for government to provide the patrol, in which case paying an assessment within a specified district on current taxes to get a tax break seemed redundant. That was the point I was trying to make.

As for a private patrol, that is rife with challenges. The larger corporations already have their own security in place and probably wouldn't have much desire to pay for it twice. So you're left with the smaller businesses who already feel security is one of the things they pay taxes for. Participation in paying for a patrol would be voluntary. What if only 1/3 of the businesses participate?

In theory, I think it's a great idea. In practice, much harder to implement.

[Islandman]

Not hard to implement at all. It's all just logistics and effiecient communication; something we don't within our own police department.

The security force I mentioned works with local police to police the interior of building as well as downtown proper. Worked quite well from what I saw.

[wolverine]

If a private patrol were hired, I'm pretty sure those expenses would be a tax deductible expense. However, since Stasu used the term police, I thought he was looking for government to provide the patrol, in which case paying an assessment within a specified district on current taxes to get a tax break seemed redundant. That was the point I was trying to make.

As for a private patrol, that is rife with challenges. The larger corporations already have their own security in place and probably wouldn't have much desire to pay for it twice. So you're left with the smaller businesses who already feel security is one of the things they pay taxes for. Participation in paying for a patrol would be voluntary. What if only 1/3 of the businesses participate?

In theory, I think it's a great idea. In practice, much harder to implement.

It does require some cooperation. And if businesses don't participate they do get skipped over on services. Keep in mind private security still has their eye on the block, but they'll only handle issues more directly inside the stores. You can see where the business association boundaries begin and end in the morning as the power washers, sweepers, shovelers, will create a nice line where sidewalks are clean and dirty. I'm sure in Detroit, services could also cover the costs of removing graffiti or repairing vandalism if the city already doesn't provide those services.

[detroitbob]

BUSINESS INSIDER discusses TARGET Stores developing and expanding their CITY TARGET concept. A new Boston store near Fenway Park sounds impressive. Could Lower Midtown, adjacent to the new Stadium District be prime for this kind of development? It is safe to believe the success of the two new Meijer stores has companies like TARGET paying closer attention.



http://www.businessinsider.com/targe...f-store-2015-7

[aj3647]

Greektown used to [[still do?) have private security patrols, paid for by the Greektown Merchants' Association. They got some bad press for allegedly roughing up panhandlers.

[detroitbob]

Center City [[downtown) Philadelphia is seeing a retail resurgence with many new stores opening, [[as is downtown Boston). In the overall discussion of TARGET opening in downtown Detroit the following link illustrates the thought process behind the new, smaller 'express' locations...

http://articles.philly.com/2015-06-1...p-boyd-theater

also from earlier in the year

http://www.philly.com/philly/business/20150109_target_aiming_to_build_small_center_city_ stores.html

[dtowncitylover]

Macy's is also planning on something for City Center Philadelphia with a Bloomingdale's.

http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/i...rea-plans.html

That would be an interesting draw for downtown Detroit. You would have an outlet Restoration Hardware and Bloomingdale's, as well as a Nike, Moosejaw, John Varvatos. Good nice mix to start with.

[stasu1213]

I had just came from Macomb Mall. The mall is being reborn with the implant of H&M, Dicks, and a new Eyewear store. H &M would be a good fit but it will probably open in Midtown near Carthartt. I still say that Dicks would do good off the Riverwalk or inside one of the empty buildings off the extended part of the Dequindre Cut. Dan Gilbert is focusing on high end store to bring downtown. H&M might would do but it will have to be next to Moosejaw

[emu steve]

Greektown used to [[still do?) have private security patrols, paid for by the Greektown Merchants' Association. They got some bad press for allegedly roughing up panhandlers.

Aren't those formal or informal business improvement districts where businesses can organize and tax themselves for things like streetscaping, security, litter patrols, etc?

[royce]

Macy's is also planning on something for City Center Philadelphia with a Bloomingdale's.

http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/i...rea-plans.html

That would be an interesting draw for downtown Detroit. You would have an outlet Restoration Hardware and Bloomingdale's, as well as a Nike, Moosejaw, John Varvatos. Good nice mix to start with.

So is Target changing the name "City Target" to "Target Express" for urban stores? Or is the name "Target Express" just for downtown stores?

In whatever name or configuration, a downtown Target store should go with what ever development goes on the Hudson's site.

[dtowncitylover]

So is Target changing the name "City Target" to "Target Express" for urban stores? Or is the name "Target Express" just for downtown stores?

In whatever name or configuration, a downtown Target store should go with what ever development goes on the Hudson's site.

I don't think so. Target Express, it seems, it supposed to be more like a Walgreen's or CVS. City Target is supposed to have the basics of a full-line but not the selection. Both are meant for the same urban area and demographic though.

[Junjie]

I don't think so. Target Express, it seems, it supposed to be more like a Walgreen's or CVS. City Target is supposed to have the basics of a full-line but not the selection. Both are meant for the same urban area and demographic though.

We just got what I think would be a "Target Express" near where I live in Arlington. It really is like a tiny little Target, though about the size of a big CVS. One small aisle of home furnishings, one of office supplies, some clothing, a small grocery section with basic produce, freezers, and maybe two aisles of dry goods, even a mini tech section with phones, cables, earphones, tablets, etc. It's actually a really nice addition to our neighborhood and right across the street from an existing CVS. I think both will do fine.

I think this would be a good fit in midtown or downtown Detroit - the smaller store presumably doesn't need a flood of business to stay open. It's odd to see but really does feel like a full Target in terms of items, just not in terms of selection which of course is quite limited.

Edit: Just to be clear, I have also been to a City Target in the DC area and this is far smaller than that. City Target was like a full store but arranged on two small levels instead of in a huge big box format. This is definitely a different thing - a sort of small general store. But the sign just says "Target".

[warsaw7]

Macy's is also planning on something for City Center Philadelphia with a Bloomingdale's.

http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/i...rea-plans.html

That would be an interesting draw for downtown Detroit. You would have an outlet Restoration Hardware and Bloomingdale's, as well as a Nike, Moosejaw, John Varvatos. Good nice mix to start with.

I don't recall any news about Detroit getting a Bloomingdale's. Do you have any proof of this or is this just hearsay?

[Bham1982]

I don't recall any news about Detroit getting a Bloomingdale's. Do you have any proof of this or is this just hearsay?

Philly isn't getting a Bloomingdales either. I have no idea where someone came up with that, and there's nothing in the linked article that indicates otherwise [[it refers to vacant space in Center City Philly and makes no mention of a new downtown Bloomingdales).

[dtowncitylover]

I don't recall any news about Detroit getting a Bloomingdale's. Do you have any proof of this or is this just hearsay?

That was just an article about the potential of a Bloomingdale's outlet in Philadelphia, which is trying to rebuild its retail scene. But their retail scene has never been as desolate as Detroit's.

And for Bham, in his quest to confidently talk about things he knows nothing about...

http://www.bizjournals.com/philadelp...rty-place.html

I heard today that the spending at the major department store's outlet stores has grown from $~20 billion in 2009 to over $~50 billion in 2013. These are seen as entry ways for many consumers into the more full-line department stores.

I didn't mean to suggest a Bloomingdale's was coming to downtown Philadelphia. Only that Macy's, which owns Bloomies, was finding a space for some sort of Bloomingdale's, full-line or outlet otherwise. Turns out its outlet, which is still nothing to sneer at.

Philadelphia's city center now has a Uniqlo, Century 21, Nordstrom Rack, and a coming soon Bloomies outlet. That's pretty impressive.