Sorry Detroit, your neighbors just don't like you.

[ProudMidwesterner]

Chicago is the murder capital of America, and has all kinds of crazy violence. It's probably one of the most dangerous major cities on earth.

Dangerous if you're in the roughly one-third of the city that has the vast majority of the murders. Take away a portion of Chicago similar in population to Detroit [[the core of the West and South Sides) and the murder rate is back down into single digits per 100,000 people. Is there any portion of Detroit you can take away and have the murder rate nearly vanish like in Chicago?

West Side core:
Austin, Humboldt Park, West/East Garfield Park, North/South Lawndale, Near West Side
Murder count through mid June 2012: 55
2010 Population: 363,486
Yearly rate: 33.6

South Side core:
Douglas, Oakland, Grand Boulevard, Fuller Park, New City, Brighton Park, West Lawn, Chicago Lawn, West Englewood, Englewood, Washington Park, Woodlawn, Greater Grand Crossing, South Shore, Chatham, Auburn Gresham, Roseland
Murder count through mid June 2012: 111
2010 Population: 538,217
Yearly rate: 45.8

Rest of city:
53 community areas
Murder count through mid June 2012: 62
2010 Population: 1,793,895 [[67% of the population)
Yearly rate: 7.7

Chicago has a problem, no doubt, but it is an extremely localized problem. The majority of Chicago is among the safer urban neighborhoods in the country. You can't say that about Detroit.

[iheartthed]

Dangerous if you're in the roughly one-quarter of the city that has in excess of 80% of the murders. Take away a portion of Chicago similar in population to Detroit [[the core of the West and South Sides) and the murder rate is under three, similar to New York levels. Is there any portion of Detroit you can take away and have the murder rate nearly vanish like in Chicago?

West Side core:
Austin, Humboldt Park, West/East Garfield Park, North/South Lawndale, Near West Side
Murder count: 55
2010 Population: 363,486
Rate: 15.1

South Side core:
Douglas, Oakland, Grand Boulevard, Fuller Park, New City, Brighton Park, West Lawn, Chicago Lawn, West Englewood, Englewood, Washington Park, Woodlawn, Greater Grand Crossing, South Shore, Chatham, Auburn Gresham, Roseland
Murder count: 111
2010 Population: 538,217
Rate: 20.6

Rest of city:
53 community areas
Murder count: 62
2010 Population: 1,793,895 [[67% of the population)
Rate: 3.46

Chicago has a problem, no doubt, but it is an extremely localized problem. The majority of Chicago is among the safest urban neighborhoods in the country. You can't say that about Detroit.

Chicago had 449 murders in 2010. I only count 228 in your cherry picking.

[ProudMidwesterner]

Chicago had 449 murders in 2010. I only count 228 in your cherry picking.

That would be because those are murder numbers for this year through mid-June.

[Signman]

Psssst, Don't mention race.

[canuck]

Montreal has 16 murders total this year in the urban community that makes up Montreal island for a population of 1.9 million. The most violent years were in the seventies and early eighties on account of mob wars but it is becoming less violent as time progresses.

I dont know what the murder rate for Toronto is so far but it usually is lower per capita than Montreal I think. The worst cities in Canada are out west. Winnipeg and Saskatoon or Regina, and small towns like Prince George in BC are pretty in neighborhoods where dislocated first nations communities are bound to get into trouble.

[poobert]

Montreal has 16 murders total this year in the urban community that makes up Montreal island for a population of 1.9 million. The most violent years were in the seventies and early eighties on account of mob wars but it is becoming less violent as time progresses.

I dont know what the murder rate for Toronto is so far but it usually is lower per capita than Montreal I think. The worst cities in Canada are out west. Winnipeg and Saskatoon or Regina, and small towns like Prince George in BC are pretty in neighborhoods where dislocated first nations communities are bound to get into trouble.

Sixteen. SIXTEEN. We'll do that in a weekend. We are doing something very wrong in this country.

[313WX]

Dangerous if you're in the roughly one-third of the city that has the vast majority of the murders. Take away a portion of Chicago similar in population to Detroit [[the core of the West and South Sides) and the murder rate is back down into single digits per 100,000 people. Is there any portion of Detroit you can take away and have the murder rate nearly vanish like in Chicago?

PERFECT!!! Couldn't have said it better myself.

[brizee]

People love to think their shit don't stink. WE all have to be better than somebody.

Chicago has been steadily producing a metric fuckton of cadavers since Prohibition but all of a sudden they're better than that OTHER midwestern city where violence is out of control.

If you take out the black parts of town, Chicago has no murders.

What the fuck?

That doesn't sound insane to anyone else?

[Bham1982]

It's the per-capita rates that matter.

He gave the per-capita rate.

Again, Chicago has the second highest homicide rate among major U.S. cities.

In case you haven't noticed, U.S. cities are amazingly violent. And Chicago is second worst among the biggies [[and dead last in raw number).

[Bham1982]

Next you are going to tell us spoons cause obesity.

No, but I will tell you food causes obesity, just like guns cause murder.

100% of criminologists will agree that the prevalence of guns is a major cause for the outrageous violence in the U.S.

The only way to cure this is to have reasonable gun control, but too many Americans prefer bloodshed.

[Bham1982]

Dangerous if you're in the roughly one-third of the city that has the vast majority of the murders. Take away a portion of Chicago similar in population to Detroit [[the core of the West and South Sides) and the murder rate is back down into single digits per 100,000 people. Is there any portion of Detroit you can take away and have the murder rate nearly vanish like in Chicago?

This is totally false, and probably racist.

First, you're wrong. Homicides occur across vast swaths of Chicago. Really only downtown and a few neighborhoods on the suburban fringe have low murder rates. There are murders all over the North Side, West Side, and South Side.

But the implication is what's worse. You're basically implying that Chicago's violence doesn't matter, because it happens in the black and Latino neighborhoods, not the white ones. And because has a few remaining white neighborhoods, we should just concentrate on those in order to determine relative safety.

Chicago is a very, very dangerous city. Is there a similarly sized city in the developed world with a comparable level of violence? I can't think of one.

[wolverine]

What is inaccurate about it? Chicago has the second highest murder rate of any US city with more than 1 million residents. Chicago is at the violent end of the spectrum.

The good news out of Chicago comes from the middle and upper class that have the choice to opt out of the city's violent crime problems. For the unfortunate far south and west sides where the majority of violent crime occurs, these residents are caught in the crossfire and innocent lives are lost. Prior to this hot summer the downtown didn't have a murder for over 3 years.

Chicago fortunately has the luxury to tell new residents and visitors "go here but not there.". The "go here" places are pretty damn big.

[wolverine]

This is totally false, and probably racist.

First, you're wrong. Homicides occur across vast swaths of Chicago. Really only downtown and a few neighborhoods on the suburban fringe have low murder rates. There are murders all over the North Side, West Side, and South Side.

But the implication is what's worse. You're basically implying that Chicago's violence doesn't matter, because it happens in the black and Latino neighborhoods, not the white ones. And because has a few remaining white neighborhoods, we should just concentrate on those in order to determine relative safety.

Chicago is a very, very dangerous city. Is there a similarly sized city in the developed world with a comparable level of violence? I can't think of one.

Yes fewer white neighborhoods but more diverse neighborhoods. Big areas. Safe areas

[Bham1982]

The good news out of Chicago comes from the middle and upper class that have the choice to opt out of the city's violent crime problems. For the unfortunate far south and west sides where the majority of violent crime occurs, these residents are caught in the crossfire and innocent lives are lost. Prior to this hot summer the downtown didn't have a murder for over 3 years.

Chicago fortunately has the luxury to tell new residents and visitors "go here but not there.". The "go here" places are pretty damn big.

What you're saying is that Chicagoans can escape the dangerous areas for safe areas. How is that different than in Detroit?

The only difference is that in Metro Detroit, 98% of the safe areas are in the suburbs, and in Chicagoland, it's maybe 95%. It's just a less sprawled metro, so there's a bigger downtown core of relative safety.

But even the core neighborhoods in Chicago aren't really "suburb" or "small town" safe. If you've been following the headlines these past weeks, there have been many, many violent gang wildings downtown. Many tourists and visitors have been violently assulted.

I would guess that downtown Detroit and environs are safer than downtown Chicago. It doesn't really matter, though, because this sort of parsing isn't relevant to overall citywide rates. A murder is a murder, and no place in the U.S. has more than Chicago.

[wolverine]

It's all in the context of one's perspective of visiting / moving to the city after college or growing up in low income neighborhoods. The census numbers back it. Low income residents are leaving the city for better prospects. They're fed up with the crime and neighborhood conditions. Meanwhile, young and educated folks are moving here in droves and offset [[though not quite enough) the massive losses from the south and west sides.

The folks that are moving to Chicago aren't buying and renting in Austin and Englewood, and Lawndale. They're headed for the Loop, West Loop, South, Loop, Near North, Ukranian Village, Wicker Park, Logan Square, Lincoln Square, Lincoln Park, Lakeview, Ravenswood, Edgewater, Rogers Park, Albany Park, Uptown

Here's a map of combined property crime and violent crime. Click to the left to filter results. You''ll see violent crime to be very concentrated to the south and west...which is alarming for neighborhoods that aren't all that dense. It would actually make more sense for there to be higher violent crimes downtown. Everyone goes downtown, more people...more crime....but that doesn't really appear to be the case.

http://www.trulia.com/crime/#!cook-i...89/Chicago,IL/

[wolverine]

I would guess that downtown Detroit and environs are safer than downtown Chicago. It doesn't really matter, though, because this sort of parsing isn't relevant to overall citywide rates. A murder is a murder, and no place in the U.S. has more than Chicago.

Of course that's true. Less buildings...less people. Something tells me that if I pass that huge swath of empty land across the freeway NW of Comerica Park, my chances of being a victim of a violent crime are low because....it's an empty lot where there's no people.

[313WX]

In case you haven't noticed, U.S. cities are amazingly violent.

I never said they weren't.

[313WX]

No, but I will tell you food causes obesity, just like guns cause murder.

You're kidding, right?

[fryar]

Of course guns kill people. That's what they're made for.

Keeping arms on-hand to prevent some kind of government take-over can be a well thought out measure. But I think where Bham1982 is going with this has to do with unthinking "consumption" of an absurdly widely available product. Situations where gun "consumption" is not a well thought out measure.

Like when they're left bouncing around glove compartments or brought along to social events. The casual acceptance of loaded weapons as an unremarkable everyday happenstance leads to gun violence in ways we can compare to food and obesity.

[j to the jeremy]

I will give Toronto credit. It really is about as far on the opposite side of the spectrum of violence as it can get from Detroit. Chicago... not so much.

It would be more apt for him to say "this is not like AMERICA". Canada as a whole has a fraction of the murders per year of the US.

[313WX]

Of course guns kill people. That's what they're made for.

No, the people using the guns kill people.

Saying guns kill people is like saying the knife stabbed him in the back. No, the person using the knife stabbed him in the back.

That said, I do agree that we should make it harder for people to own guns. Gun laws should be stricter and controlled at the federal level to prevent interstate purchases from those we don't want to have them.

I also wouldn't be against some type of IQ test either. Knee-jerk idiots should not be allowed to carry CCWs, regardless of how good their supposed hand-ete coordination is.

[iheartthed]

It would be more apt for him to say "this is not like AMERICA". Canada as a whole has a fraction of the murders per year of the US.

That is true. It is a different culture. A lot of foreigners view America in general as a violent place without much differentiation.

However, what Toronto does have in common with Detroit is the source of that violence and who it is directed to, which is probably what the housing director was getting at when he compared the situation to Detroit. One of the papers in Toronto [[the Globe?) released an analysis of the sources and victims of Toronto's violence. The sources and the victims are both predominantly poor, predominantly minority, predominantly male, and predominantly in their teens and twenties. So pretty much the same as Detroit and Chicago... Or any other major American city.

[Rochelle St.]

More "Diarhea of the mouth" from mayors of other cities.
Mr. Ford didnt need to bring up Detroit.

[Hermod]

No, the people using the guns kill people.

Saying guns kill people is like saying the knife stabbed him in the back. No, the person using the knife stabbed him in the back.

Just like all of those SUVs out there are killing pedestrians.

The news always says, "SUV kills mother of six."

If not an SUV, it goes, "Mother of six killed by driver."

It never says, "careless and negligent mother of six stupidly jay walks into path of car."

[Bham1982]

It never says, "careless and negligent mother of six stupidly jay walks into path of car."

This is true, but different modes of transit have differing relative threats. Bikes don't kill too many folks, while SUVs kill many, because they're huge, high off the ground, and hard for many folks to visually navigate.

Similarly, while guns, by themselves, can't do anything, their presence will lead to more deaths than sticks, knives, or open windows. That's why it's in the public interest to have some level of regulatory oversight.