Detroit Rail Transit, a Proposed Solution

**mtburb** · July-10-12, 06:34 PM

Ever wondered how hard is it to traverse metro Detroit via public transit? Well, here's my solution! It serves about 95% of the urbanized Wayne-Oakland-Macomb County areas and has many lines, most converging on the Rosa Parks Transit Center! It's so big it had to be put on three pages! Ladies and gentlemen, here it is, a transit solution for Detroit!

I literally spent about a day back in May whipping this system up, but never bothered to show it to anyone until now. What do you think?

**Detroit Stylin** · July-10-12, 07:18 PM

Originally Posted by mtburb

Ever wondered how hard is it to traverse metro Detroit via public transit? Well, here's my solution! It serves about 95% of the urbanized Wayne-Oakland-Macomb County areas and has many lines, most converging on the Rosa Parks Transit Center! It's so big it had to be put on three pages! Ladies and gentlemen, here it is, a transit solution for Detroit!

I literally spent about a day back in May whipping this system up, but never bothered to show it to anyone until now. What do you think?

You have WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY too many stops.....but aside from my brief overviewits seems pretty cool....

**professorscott** · July-10-12, 08:39 PM

Originally Posted by Detroit Stylin

You have WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY too many stops.....but aside from my brief overviewits seems pretty cool....

Shoot, man, somebody send me a check for $20 large and we'll break ground next Monday.

**wolverine** · July-10-12, 08:55 PM

It's cool, but wow there's a ton of stops!!! Though oddly the number of stops on the Woodward line seems reasonable.

**casscorridor** · July-10-12, 10:08 PM

This plan is very ambitious, but there are some curious places left userved. Hamtramck has no service, and with the vast number of miles of track you would think Ann Arbor would also be served.

**rbdetsport** · July-10-12, 10:26 PM

I agree with everyone else that there are WAY too many stops, but the concept is really good. I like most of the spur line ideas except that the John R line should be taken through Hamtramck using Mound Road and eventually end at a connector with the Van Dyke line somewhere in Warren. Also, the spur that comes off of Woodward using the Lodge should come off at Grand Boulevard through New Center [[servicing Henry Ford Hospital) and stop in Southfield. There is no need to take it through Bloomfield Township [[unless some rich people there are donating billions...)

**DetroitPlanner** · July-10-12, 11:13 PM

Needs some EW crosstown lines. I suggest you remove Plymouth, take it down to Warren, the link up Westland, WSU, Cultural Ctr, Med Center, and Grosse Pointe. Maybe one through Birmingham / Troy.

**Hermod** · July-11-12, 04:52 AM

And Attachment 14451of course every stop will have a palatial station that is fully climate controlled with exiting little boutiques and eateries.

**stasu1213** · July-11-12, 07:14 AM

Get rid of some of the stops. The stop should only be at major intersections Example: For Woodward; Grand Circus, Mack, Warren, Grand Blvd, Manchester, Six, Seven, and 8 mile. Having stops far apart from would keep the feeder busses in business.

**Junkin4Life** · July-11-12, 08:40 AM

are they planning on building a subway system or something. the should have done that over 90 years ago

**kenp** · July-11-12, 09:02 AM

Hermod: that was the chuckle of the day, so far

Nice thought out plan by mtburb, I would add something in Ham town.

**Detroitnerd** · July-11-12, 10:23 AM

Interesting. I agree with other posters that there are too many stops and the routes shouldn't bypass the densest, most walkable area in the region, Hamtramck.

But it's difficult to serve widely dispersed places like the exurbs. Sometimes you can make that happen, though. I think, in particular, of train stations in Ossining or Croton-on-Hudson in the Hudson River Valley north of New York; they have large parking lots for folks to drive to the train and then hop on. [[On weekends, when not as heavily used, the train station will also host live music shows.)

But that's heavy rail. I imagine this system is more of a light-rail system? Can you clarify?

**stasu1213** · July-11-12, 03:14 PM

I agree with having a parking lot at most of the major stop such as 8 mile, Manchester, and somewhere in the midtown area. I don't think that Detroit needs a subway. The city should install a system that is easy to uninstall in the future if it is not working for the city any longer. Subways and overhead tracks in cities such as New York and Chicago are permenat fixtures which are expensive to maintain and would be very expensive to get rid of

**Detroitnerd** · July-11-12, 03:24 PM

Originally Posted by stasu1213

I agree with having a parking lot at most of the major stop such as 8 mile, Manchester, and somewhere in the midtown area. I don't think that Detroit needs a subway. The city should install a system that is easy to uninstall in the future if it is not working for the city any longer. Subways and overhead tracks in cities such as New York and Chicago are permenat fixtures which are expensive to maintain and would be very expensive to get rid of

Wow. Stasu, your statement should win some sort of award for completely misunderstanding why developers love to build near fixed-route transit. I don't think I've seen anybody get transit quite so wrong in one paragraph.

Know how they say everybody has a right to their opinion?

You don't.

**stasu1213** · July-11-12, 03:44 PM

Originally Posted by Detroitnerd

Wow. Stasu, your statement should win some sort of award for completely misunderstanding why developers love to build near fixed-route transit. I don't think I've seen anybody get transit quite so wrong in one paragraph.

Know how they say everybody has a right to their opinion?

You don't.

I am glad that Detroit never had a subway system only to have it shut down in the 50s and having the problems with unused underground tunnels the could had been an burden on the city in many ways including crime. Detroit does not need a subway system today. That people mover was an expensive waste of project to build that doesn't go anywhere that minibus could had taken you.

**douglasm** · July-11-12, 04:29 PM

Not a bad concept, but I have to ask if Detroit is really a hub and spoke city anymore, or a city with two or three hubs in the same way Seattle Downtown isn't the hub it used to be, what with development in the 'burbs drawing their own commuter traffic.

**coracle** · July-11-12, 06:12 PM

In 30 years I have never heard anyone in my suburb express the wish they would like to take a train to Detroit. I personally prefer to take my car into town so that I can return when I want to and not worry who is going to get on at each train stop in both directions. [[and there looks to be a lot of stops)
If it ever comes to fruition imagine the annual costs that someone will have to pick up to keep it running and prove it wasn't a pipedream.
If there is money available get rid of ALL the derelict properties and clean some of the neighborhoods up for starters and don't invest it all in Downtown.

**dtowncitylover** · July-11-12, 06:27 PM

Originally Posted by coracle

I personally prefer to take my car into town so that I can return when I want to and not worry who is going to get on at each train stop in both directions.

What the hell does that mean? You're afraid someone you may not care for sit next to you? Have you ever been on a subway? bus? airplane? train? The world is full of people; it takes all kind.

**coracle** · July-11-12, 08:19 PM

Originally Posted by dtowncitylover

What the hell does that mean? You're afraid someone you may not care for sit next to you? Have you ever been on a subway? bus? airplane? train? The world is full of people; it takes all kind.

Yes. Yes, yes, yes and yes.

**dtowncitylover** · July-11-12, 08:38 PM

Originally Posted by coracle

Yes. Yes, yes, yes and yes.

It must really suck dealing with the rest of us.

**coracle** · July-11-12, 08:42 PM

Originally Posted by dtowncitylover

It must really suck dealing with the rest of us.

Yes again.

**Zacha341** · July-12-12, 06:18 AM

Well just to weigh in for a bit here, I rode Detroit buses as a kid, a teen, in college and on occasion now when my car is in the shop. The bus specifically is not a preferred experience. Slow, unreliable, and often very rowdy and yes, sometimes you do get a weird, obnoxious person sitting next to you. And now possibly bed bugs too!

Um, with crime, justified lawlessness and the lack of general public decorum as it is now, no thanks to being a 'captive audience' if I can avoid it [[public transportation).

Originally Posted by dtowncitylover

What the hell does that mean? You're afraid someone you may not care for sit next to you? Have you ever been on a subway? bus? airplane? train? The world is full of people; it takes all kind.

**canuck** · July-12-12, 09:44 AM

Originally Posted by Zacha341

Well just to weigh in for a bit here, I rode Detroit buses as a kid, a teen, in college and on occasion now when my car is in the shop. The bus specifically is not a preferred experience. Slow, unreliable, and often very rowdy and yes, sometimes you do get a weird, obnoxious person sitting next to you. And now possibly bed bugs too!

Um, with crime, justified lawlessness and the lack of general public decorum as it is now, no thanks to being a 'captive audience' if I can avoid it [[public transportation).

That is as far-fetched an account of public transit as you can find. I think it is fairer to say that Detroit has suffered from a lack of industrial diversity, abandonment over the course of 50 years to suburban flight and of course a total reliance on the car for mobility. The result is derelict neighborhoods and the concomitant criminal activity.

Hermod. So far cities such as Seoul, Helsinki, and Lille have been mentioned as reasons for Detroit having a subway. There are crucial differences between Detroit and those cities.

Their populations are rising and their roads are getting clogged. Detroit's population is falling and the streets are getting empty.

Their city centers are like magnets and all of the population in their burbs wants or needs to go downtown with some frequency. As noted above, there is little reason for someone living in Detroit's burbs to want or need to go downtown.

Much of the rationale shown for Detroit transit is "build it and they will come" which is not much of a reason to shell out big [[and scarce) gigabucks for this.

So you are saying it is no use trying to save downtown or the rest of Detroit from blight. Might as well build the bridge elsewhere and put an "X" on Detroit and Windsor for that matter. If you could circumvent Detroit with that bridge access and make it a hygienic stepping stone to Birmingham or the far-flung suburbs, non-stop, then it would be OK. As others have said before, I can't understand the motivation behind this kind of thought process.

**Hermod** · July-12-12, 10:07 AM

Originally Posted by canuck

So you are saying it is no use trying to save downtown or the rest of Detroit from blight. Might as well build the bridge elsewhere and put an "X" on Detroit and Windsor for that matter. If you could circumvent Detroit with that bridge access and make it a hygienic stepping stone to Birmingham or the far-flung suburbs, non-stop, then it would be OK. As others have said before, I can't understand the motivation behind this kind of thought process.

Ummm, the blight in downtown Detroit and in the Detroit neighborhoods is not caused by lack of access to the downtown. You could build out the entire network as proposed by the thread starter and it would probably serve to make the suburbs more desirable. The main benefit to Detroit is that it might improve the lot of those Detroiters who lack convenient access to jobs and shopping in the burbs. To a poor Detroiter living around Gratiot and 7 Mile. the plan would make it quite easy to get out to Lakeside or Great Kakes and to get back home with their shopping bags.

The "build it and they will come" philosophy postulates that running Nerd's magic choo choo from downtown to Pontiac will immediately fill up all of the vacant office space downtown plus create a demand for more [[yeah, let's rehab the MCS and fill up all of those offices).

**Hermod** · July-12-12, 10:11 AM

Originally Posted by Zacha341

Well just to weigh in for a bit here, I rode Detroit buses as a kid, a teen, in college and on occasion now when my car is in the shop. The bus specifically is not a preferred experience. Slow, unreliable, and often very rowdy and yes, sometimes you do get a weird, obnoxious person sitting next to you. And now possibly bed bugs too!

Um, with crime, justified lawlessness and the lack of general public decorum as it is now, no thanks to being a 'captive audience' if I can avoid it [[public transportation).

But, but, but...........

Zacha, if the bus rode on steel wheels running on tracks instead of rubber tires running on asphalt, all would be sweetness and light on board with the passengers enjoying friendly chats or working on their mobile devices [[free wi-fi and power at every seat). Just the atmosphere of the rail car would cause all of the sociopaths and psychopaths to become model citizens.