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  1. #26

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    10 commandments are copied from Hittite Lord/Vassal contracts. they are nearly identical in form and purpose, but the hittite predates by centuries

  2. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by rb336 View Post
    10 commandments are copied from Hittite Lord/Vassal contracts. they are nearly identical in form and purpose, but the hittite predates by centuries
    I wouldn't say "copied". And I wouldn't use just the 10 commandments in the comparison.

    The 10 commandments are like a "summary" of the Law given by Moses. The entire book of Deuteronomy is a more accurate comparison to the Hittite Suzerain (sp?) Vassal treaties. And not to any specific treaty (therefore it was not really "copied"). Rather, the treaties all followed the same format. Deuteronomy follows that format, as you say, almost identically.

    This is not very surprising considering that the format was apparently also used in Egypt for treaties with foreign laborers (which is probably what the Hebrews were considered, although we call it slavery.) Moses did well to bring the Law in a format that the Hebrews would recognize. They would see this as a transfer of allegiance from one Lord (Pharaoh) to the one true Lord (Jehovah). That knowledge about the way treaties were forged in those days actually makes Deuteronomy's format more understandable.

    An interesting exercise would be comparison of the actual specifications of the Hittite treaties with the specifications in Deut. which are very broad and touched every aspect of Hebrew life.

  3. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by Locke09 View Post
    I wouldn't say "copied". And I wouldn't use just the 10 commandments in the comparison.

    The 10 commandments are like a "summary" of the Law given by Moses. The entire book of Deuteronomy is a more accurate comparison to the Hittite Suzerain (sp?) Vassal treaties. And not to any specific treaty (therefore it was not really "copied").
    actually, a linguistics professor passed out a translation of a treaty that contained, nearly word for word (leaving out the references to deity) the ten commandments

  4. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by rb336 View Post
    actually, a linguistics professor passed out a translation of a treaty that contained, nearly word for word (leaving out the references to deity) the ten commandments
    Including the adultery and honoring your father and mother so your days will be long and not being jealous of your neighbor's possessions kind of stuff? I get the first four commandments because they deal with allegiance. And you expect virtually every culture to say: don't kill, steal, lie, etc. But half of the last six seem odd for a treaty. I enjoy understanding things from an historical perspective, so I guess I need to do some more research.

  5. #30

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    Quote Originally Posted by Locke09 View Post
    Including the adultery and honoring your father and mother so your days will be long and not being jealous of your neighbor's possessions kind of stuff? I get the first four commandments because they deal with allegiance. And you expect virtually every culture to say: don't kill, steal, lie, etc. But half of the last six seem odd for a treaty. I enjoy understanding things from an historical perspective, so I guess I need to do some more research.
    there were provisions for marital fidelity, covetous behavior, perjury, etc. I think it had a passage about keeping children disciplined, but i don't think it had the honor your father and mother bit, and it had something about holy days, but not the sabbath restrictions

  6. #31

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    Why are there so many hillbillies on Ohio?

  7. #32

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    Because its next to the hills of Kentucky, West Virginia, and Pennsylvania.

  8. #33

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    Quote Originally Posted by rb336 View Post
    there were provisions for marital fidelity, covetous behavior, perjury, etc. I think it had a passage about keeping children disciplined, but i don't think it had the honor your father and mother bit, and it had something about holy days, but not the sabbath restrictions
    That sounds more like the Code of Hammurabi. That code by the way precedes even the Hittite treaties.I've looked at a couple of the treaties themselves, the one with Egypt and the one between Mursilis and Duppi-Tessub and the similarity is primarily in form.

    The Hittite treaties had the form: Preamble (corresponds to Deut. 1:1-5), Historical Prologue (Deut. 1:6-3:29, similar tone to the treaties), Stipulations (Deut 4 - 26, the stipulations are not like those in the treaties), Deposition and periodic reading (Deut 31, remarkable similarity in content here, in regards to where to place the treaty and a requirement to read it periodically and teach it to future generations), Witnesses (Deut 31) and curses and blessings (Deut 28, similar in tone, but Deut is more expansive). The form is identical but the content is different. Deut simply follows the treaty format.

    Now the Code of Hammurabi actually has a lot of stipulations that are very similar to those in Deut. Of course, professors pull out the handful of similarities to make their case, without looking at the multitude of differences. There are a lot of those as well.

    So, I still think you have to weigh it against all of Deuteronomy, not just the ten commandments, and I think there might be confusion between Hammurabi and the Hittite treaties. Do you have the name of the one you looked at?

  9. #34

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    That could be, it was years ago and we discussed both topics.

  10. #35
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    They (the ancients) did not understand the power of a large scale society composed of individuals acting in their own self interest by the rules of a free market to generate unheard of prosperity...Capitalism. They also didn't understand that the earth was round BTW.

  11. #36

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    I'll concede only partly. They didn't have modern capitalism, but they did have capitalism. And they clearly understood the power of invididuals acting in their own self interests. They just seemed to have decided that it produced mostly negative results if not controlled. Why else would there be ancient laws against usury and stiff penalties for having false weights?

    Capitalism is almost as ancient as man. It goes all the way back to Mesopotamia and Babylonia, at least. You had merchants. You had trade and commerce. You even had inflation. You had people who became quite prosperous for their time. You had government run enterprises (like the temples in some cultures) and private enterprises. You had taxation on imports and exports and sometimes a waiver of taxation to encourage trade (there are ancient writings detailing some of this).

    The difference is that ancient people did not think very highly of capitalists. The modern Western world made capitalism respectable

  12. #37

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    Any carbonated beverage tastes better in a glass bottle rather than a plastic one.
    Last edited by DetroitDad; June-24-09 at 10:36 PM.

  13. #38

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    Quote Originally Posted by DetroitDad View Post
    Any carbonated beverage tastes better in a glass bottle rather than a plastic one.
    Yeah, you're right! Wonder why that is? Doesn't matter how much ice you add to the glass either. It just does not taste the same....

  14. #39

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    NCIS Los Angeles. has hollywood officially run out of ideas? Coming soon: NCIS Geat Lakes Naval Station

  15. #40

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    Quote Originally Posted by eriedearie View Post
    Yeah, you're right! Wonder why that is? Doesn't matter how much ice you add to the glass either. It just does not taste the same....
    Along those lines - Cane sugar based pop tastes better than corn syrup based pop and is the standard for most of the world. Yet, Coke, Pepsi and most of the major distributors sell us corn syrup. There is sugar based Coke in the Mexican section of the grocery and small independents like Jones and Hansen sell sugar based pop but why don't the major even sell it as an upscale option? I keep Jones around for company and have had comments like the creme soda is the best they ever had. Green apple is good too.

    Jones http://www.jonessoda.com/index.php

  16. #41

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    Quote Originally Posted by rb336 View Post
    NCIS Los Angeles. has hollywood officially run out of ideas? Coming soon: NCIS Geat Lakes Naval Station
    NCIS Geat Lakes Naval Station - This could actually work, and you could throw in cases that include Chicago.

  17. #42

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    Quote Originally Posted by oladub View Post
    Along those lines - Cane sugar based pop tastes better than corn syrup based pop and is the standard for most of the world. Yet, Coke, Pepsi and most of the major distributors sell us corn syrup...why don't the major even sell it as an upscale option?
    I think one of them tried it.

    You can thank US subsidies to corporate farms for that little bit of poison in our diets.

    I want D&G Champagne Kola, or Ting. Anyone knowwher I can get it?

  18. #43

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    Quote Originally Posted by DetroitDad View Post
    Any carbonated beverage tastes better in a glass bottle rather than a plastic one.
    Quote Originally Posted by eriedearie View Post
    Yeah, you're right! Wonder why that is? Doesn't matter how much ice you add to the glass either. It just does not taste the same....
    Because the plastic is minutely soluble in the acidic soultion. The Feds have examined it and say its not a health risk. Bottlers actually dislike plastic, but it became so popular they had no choice. The plastic is much more permeable than glass so carbonated beverages go flat quicker and juices go bad sooner.

    Glass is also best for the environment. The thing I wonder about is why Michigan has bottle returns and the environmentalists in CA don't or why its just not a Federal law. I always feel so wasteful and uncomfortable when throwing away containers in other states.

    http://www.webmd.com/parenting/baby/baby-bottles
    http://www.canadianliving.com/blogs/...astic-bottles/

  19. #44

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    Quote Originally Posted by mjs View Post
    Bottlers actually dislike plastic, but it became so popular they had no choice.

    Glass is also best for the environment. The thing I wonder about is why Michigan has bottle returns and the environmentalists in CA don't or why its just not a Federal law. I always feel so wasteful and uncomfortable when throwing away containers in other states.

    http://www.webmd.com/parenting/baby/baby-bottles
    http://www.canadianliving.com/blogs/...astic-bottles/
    Coming from a background in retail where we took in bottle returns (before all the fancy machines), there is the fragile aspect of glass bottles. Besides the mess of cleaning up the broken glass, and the bloodshed of cut fingers and hands, there was the loss factor. We, the store owner already paid the customer for the return, which we now cannot collect from the distributer.

    I also feel guilty throwing away bottles when I travel.

  20. #45

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    Quote Originally Posted by oladub View Post
    Along those lines - Cane sugar based pop tastes better than corn syrup based pop and is the standard for most of the world. Yet, Coke, Pepsi and most of the major distributors sell us corn syrup.
    Red Bull Cola has cane based sugar as well and it tastes much better than Coke or Pepsi.

    I don't think you'll see corn syrup disappear anytime soon, since the corn industry is highly subsidized by our federal government.

  21. #46
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    "Tastes better"?? To some perhaps, to others, perhaps not.

  22. #47

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    Quote Originally Posted by ccbatson View Post
    "Tastes better"?? To some perhaps, to others, perhaps not.
    Bats, what is your thoughts about government subsidies for the corn farmers?

  23. #48
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    No government subsidies, for anything, is my position on that subject.

  24. #49

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    Quote Originally Posted by ccbatson View Post
    No government subsidies, for anything, is my position on that subject.

    well, then, give back your public-school med degree, your grant money, your roads, your police protection, fire dept, radio or any broadcast medium (to hell with WJR, I'll just start broadcasting a much more powerful signal on that frequency!) give back half of your pay, too

  25. #50
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    Forgot the other half of the equation there Rb...need a hint? THe fact that the money for all of those things is/was stolen from taxpayers in the first place.

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