New Strip Club Rules in Detroit!

[maxx]

After a 14-month time-delay, you might have worked up a more witty retort, to Cheddar Bob, than that one, maybe?
The Cheesy One hasn't been around these here parts for quite some time.

I am not familiar with Cheddar Bob's history here. lol

[maxx]

It's the bible thumper crowd trying to dictate morality.

How about trying to give the D a modicum of class?

Whatever happened to class?
http://www.stlyrics.com/songs/c/chic...ass232431.html

[terryh]

The ladies who were doing a little extra in the break room will just go deeper underground, doing bacehelor parties, after hour clubs, private homes etc.... Ads will pop up online etc. Is there anyway the clubs can legally overturn the new restrictions on personal freedom and choice? Forgive my crassness here, but suppose, and I know from how a lot of VIP rooms were set up when I occasionally popped in strip joints [[wasn't my thing really) I cant imagine a patron getting more than a discreet hand stimulation, depending on what time of day the patron patronizes the club.

[laurin]

I used to live close to Penthouse even when it was just City Heat. As such, I didn't care about strip clubs and was greatly amused at the sheer amount on 8mile alone. However, that big picture of the stripper or whatever it was is just a slap in the face. Nothing quite beat having to explain to my toddler 'who is she' and what a 'pretty red dress' just about every day on the ride home. At one point, I altered my way home, but decided that the blight and social issues of 7mile might actually make a worse impact. The poster helped to mobilize the surrounding community to say 'hey, this is enough.' To me, the poster represented a remarkable amount of hubris on behalf of the strip club to completely disregard the neighborhood.

Yes, Detroit receives tax money from the clubs- but do those clubs fully report all earnings? It's the extra-curricular earnings that aren't reported that cause the most issue. The tax argument is one of lowered expectations of Detroit should just take what they can get. It also bothers me that the clubs are located on a 8 mile. Patrons come from the suburbs, feed their vice, and go right back. I remember the hubub about the 2nd [[?) Hooters in Troy with the outside patio. One of main arguments was that it didn't fit in with the city image or something of that sort. That kind of stuff really makes me cringe.

Strip clubs, in general, do not bother me but the way the situation unfolds in Detroit gives me pause. However, when I see the good reverends get involved, I shift back solidly into anti-additional regulations.

[Meddle]

To me, the poster represented a remarkable amount of hubris on behalf of the strip club to completely disregard the neighborhood.

And what about all the drug, insurance, lawyer ads on TV trying to do whatever they can to get into your pockets? They can do you a whole lot more damage than a picture of a girl. I guarantee those advertisers don't care about you or your community at all.

[laurin]

And what about all the drug, insurance, lawyer ads on TV trying to do whatever they can to get into your pockets? They can do you a whole lot more damage than a picture of a girl. I guarantee those advertisers don't care about you or your community at all.

Never said they did. It's not a zero sum game. But should I champion the picture of the stripper because there are worse things out there? No, they are all horrible.

[Fnemecek]

How about trying to give the D a modicum of class?

Whatever happened to class?

Class is great. I love class.

However, you're assuming that these ordinances will bring more of it. Detroit has already gone down this road before. The end result of this will be more drug dealers and prostitutes in our neighborhoods; not less.

There are already a multitude of laws on the book to deal with strip clubs and the problems that they can attract. Unfortunately, DPD doesn't have the resources to enforce them.

Rather than boosting their enforcement capacity, the Detroit City Council decided to launch a new series of laws that won't be enforced either. These new laws - even though they won't be enforced - have attracted yet another lawsuit, just like they did the last time we played this game.

Those lawsuits eat up a significant amount of money, even if we prevail in court. Because the City of Detroit is so broke to begin with, the only place left for us to is to further diminish the resources for DPD's enforcement.

The end result of this is ordinances like this = more drug dealers and hookers in our neighborhoods.

I have to ask: does Detroit really need more drug dealers and hookers?

[Fnemecek]

I used to live close to Penthouse even when it was just City Heat. As such, I didn't care about strip clubs and was greatly amused at the sheer amount on 8mile alone. However, that big picture of the stripper or whatever it was is just a slap in the face. Nothing quite beat having to explain to my toddler 'who is she' and what a 'pretty red dress' just about every day on the ride home.

This is an excellent argument. However, I feel compelled to point out that the new laws do not address exterior signage in any way.

[maxx]

How is Detroit going to attract mainstream businesses if the city is filled with strip clubs and people engaging in sex on neighborhood streets?Detroit should take a lesson from New York.

"...
The general atmosphere changed with the onset of the Great Depression in the 1930s. Times Square acquired a reputation as a dangerous neighborhood in the following decades. From the 1960s to the early 1990s, the seediness of the area, especially due its go go bars, sex shops, and adult theaters, became an infamous symbol of the city's decline.[8]
In the 1980s, a commercial building boom began in the western parts of the Midtown as part of a long-term development plan developed under Mayor Ed Koch and David Dinkins. In the mid-1990s, Mayor Rudolph Giuliani [[1994–2002) led an effort to "clean up" the area, increasing security, driving out pornographic theaters, drug dealers and "squeegee men", and opening more tourist-friendly attractions and upscale establishments...
In 1990, the state of New York took possession of six of the nine historic theatres on 42nd Street, and the New 42nd Street nonprofit organization was appointed to oversee their restoration and maintenance. The theatres were renovated for Broadway shows, converted for commercial purposes, or demolished." [wiki]

O my gawd! State take-over! Socialism!

[SWMAP]

I agree that Detroit appears to welcome and so attract seedy businesses. Seems like the bar is very low lately. Michigan Ave is starting to look like a bawdy house [[architecture and store-fronts) and the nightime crowd is ugly and drunk and gang-y and "street" - a little scary if you are driving alone. So, a major street in Detroit is pretty much off-limits to mainstream families at night. No wonder so many neighborhood homes are vacant lately.

[Fnemecek]

How is Detroit going to attract mainstream businesses if the city is filled with strip clubs and people engaging in sex on neighborhood streets?Detroit should take a lesson from New York.

1. Nothing in this series of new ordinances wil do anything to get rid of strip clubs and prostitution. As I've pointed out above, we'll likely have more prostitution in our neighborhoods rather than less because of this.
2. New York still has strip clubs.
3. If we're going to "take a lesson from New York", one should note that NYC didn't enact any new laws as part of their crackdown. It was purely a matter of improving enforcement for existing laws, which is something that Mayor Bing and the City Council are adamantly opposed to.

[Fnemecek]

I agree that Detroit appears to welcome and so attract seedy businesses. Seems like the bar is very low lately. Michigan Ave is starting to look like a bawdy house [[architecture and store-fronts) and the nightime crowd is ugly and drunk and gang-y and "street" - a little scary if you are driving alone. So, a major street in Detroit is pretty much off-limits to mainstream families at night. No wonder so many neighborhood homes are vacant lately.

Let me guess, you also think that the fire department showing up caused a house to catch on fire, right?

[maxx]

What laws aren't they enforcing? And is it a question of a need for more police?

[terryh]

Class is great. I love class.

However, you're assuming that these ordinances will bring more of it. Detroit has already gone down this road before. The end result of this will be more drug dealers and prostitutes in our neighborhoods; not less.

There are already a multitude of laws on the book to deal with strip clubs and the problems that they can attract. Unfortunately, DPD doesn't have the resources to enforce them.

Rather than boosting their enforcement capacity, the Detroit City Council decided to launch a new series of laws that won't be enforced either. These new laws - even though they won't be enforced - have attracted yet another lawsuit, just like they did the last time we played this game.

Those lawsuits eat up a significant amount of money, even if we prevail in court. Because the City of Detroit is so broke to begin with, the only place left for us to is to further diminish the resources for DPD's enforcement.

The end result of this is ordinances like this = more drug dealers and hookers in our neighborhoods.

I have to ask: does Detroit really need more drug dealers and hookers?

The non regulated black market will respond to increased demand for those services. A house on Penrose was raided in 96, two hrs. later another dealer from the neighborhood stepped in to suplly demand.

[Fnemecek]

What laws aren't they enforcing? And is it a question of a need for more police?

1. Pretty much all of them.
2. Yes.

[terryh]

Im very dissapointed with the some of the male posters here on DYES. How can you as men, be opposed to a guy getting off in a VIP room? Seriously, pay for play alleviates a lot of stress and tension in society.Let them get their kicks and stop being uptight squares!

[laurin]

This is an excellent argument. However, I feel compelled to point out that the new laws do not address exterior signage in any way.

Sadly, I know that.
I yhink the new laws missed the boat and are an end run to attempt to eventually run them out of business, Otherwise they would have addressed actual community concerns instead of fake concern over the workers or whatever it may be.

[JJD]

I find the revival of this thread entertaining. these "new rules" are a year old and were never enforced, complete non-issue.

[Gistok]

How about trying to give the D a modicum of class?

Whatever happened to class?
http://www.stlyrics.com/songs/c/chic...ass232431.html

Maxx, I have to agree with Fnemecek... somehow you think that getting rid of these places will bring Detroit a "modicum of class"???

The city has way more serious issues than strip clubs.... serious crime, deteriorating neighborhoods and a poor education system... to name a few...

I don't see Las Vegas suffering from a "modicum of class"...

[SWMAP]

"Let me guess, you also think that the fire department showing up caused a house to catch on fire, right?"

Frank, I'm a professional person working downtown. I have lived in SW Detroit 30 years. I know that there are other factors emptying Detroit out,. but on the SW side you have the imression, with Marvin's expansion to three operations and the other smaller clubs opening, that its no place for families.

Put a lot of Gigi's on West Warren and you'd have the same impression. As it is, I know the Polish funeral homes that have been on West Warren are moving because their clientele is moving.How'd you like those buildings to become strip clubs - it would be hard to take I bet, to have Warren taken over by that element. Nice people don't stay in or move into areas dominated by strip clubs. Just how it is.
I know that Michigan ave has had strip clubs since the days of the 32nd St. Show Bar, so its nothing new - but now they dominate and they have their crazy security guys showing who really runs things - and they do run things since recently. Just one opinion - no need to be sarcastic.

[Fnemecek]

Frank, I'm a professional person working downtown. I have lived in SW Detroit 30 years. I know that there are other factors emptying Detroit out,. but on the SW side you have the imression, with Marvin's expansion to three operations and the other smaller clubs opening, that its no place for families.

The problem there is that you're talking about the exterior signage and lighting for the club. The proposed ordinances will do absolutely nothing about those problems.

Granted, the City Council could address this issue through better regulation of commercial signage. However, that would require them to use their brains instead of their mouths.

Put a lot of Gigi's on West Warren and you'd have the same impression.

Please. Gigi's is just a random gay bar. From the outside, you can't even tell that it's a gay bar. It's just a nondescript building.

Besides, we already have 3 gay bars on W. Warren; all within a mile of each other. If someone wanted to open 30 more, I'd say welcome to the neighborhood.

As it is, I know the Polish funeral homes that have been on West Warren are moving because their clientele is moving. How'd you like those buildings to become strip clubs - it would be hard to take I bet, to have Warren taken over by that element. Nice people don't stay in or move into areas dominated by strip clubs. Just how it is.

I'll get to the nice people part in a moment.

As for the prospect of someone opening more strip clubs in my neighborhood, we already have one. If someone wanted to open another one, my concerns would be focused on better things, their signage and lighting.

I know that Michigan ave has had strip clubs since the days of the 32nd St. Show Bar, so its nothing new - but now they dominate and they have their crazy security guys showing who really runs things - and they do run things since recently. Just one opinion - no need to be sarcastic.

Okay - let's talk about whether or not nice people stay or move into areas with lots of strip clubs.

Michigan Ave. has had the same number of strip clubs for decades. In spite of that, up until recently, SW Detroit was the one part of town that was gaining population. If the number of strip clubs, or the activities in their VIP rooms, didn't deter people from moving to the area before, it's not likely to now.

Now, along Michigan Ave., we now have the incredibly tacky signage and lighting. That's a legitimate concern.

For starters, it overpowers every other business along that strip and makes it harder for them to operate. Strip clubs may pay a decent amount of taxes, but there's no way that pay enough to cover their entire footprint of influence.

Unfortunately, there's nothing in the current round of ordinances that does anything about that.

[river rat]

Strip Clubs actually lower crime in that they provide income for the addicted dancers and their boyfriends [[or whatever) so that they do not have to commit robberies and burglary to score their habit. It also localizes the patrons of such establishments where they can interact with one another whilst not affecting the larger community. The study done by the late Dottore Cecchini of Italia at the University of Valcalepio in the late 90's has prompted the expansion of such enterprises for what some deem morally corrupt in specified areas of cities and resulted in a lower crime rate.