New Strip Club Rules in Detroit!

[wolverine]

I think it's funny how some people in this thread are fretting about losing tax base, and losing tourism. Seriously if that's the case, Detroit is really screwed if strip clubs are the cornerstone of your tax base.

But I call b.s. You can build a nightclub destination without strip clubs, and even without trashy bars.

I live over by the Rush street area in Chicago and on any given night you'll find thousands of bar and club patrons enjoying the night life until 4 am. When Daley cleaned up this area from a red light district long ago, a bunch of classy restaurants and bars open, new high end hotels, and more college type of bars. It attracts a large demographic of people off all ages, races, nationalities, and income. During the day, bars become restaurants and cafes, and are appealing to the residents who live in the area. One of the reasons I moved to this neighborhood was because it is a nice place day and night.

Certainly the most important point is it attracts plenty of people from Michigan. It's not uncommon for me to meet Michiganders in the neighborhood and say they come to the Rush Street because they have nothing like it back home. If they wanted the strip clubs, they'd go down to the West Loop, but it's always a deadzone down there.

[Jimaz]

... If they wanted the strip clubs, they'd go down to the West Loop, but it's always a deadzone down there.

Is that where Al Bundy goes?

[Al Publican]

Meanwhile, Detroit pursues "Second Amendment solutions" [[thank you, Sharron Angle for that quip) but says zero to ass and booze? What is my birthplace coming to, a theocracy? Dammmn

[Meddle]

To me, the poster represented a remarkable amount of hubris on behalf of the strip club to completely disregard the neighborhood.

And what about all the drug, insurance, lawyer ads on TV trying to do whatever they can to get into your pockets? They can do you a whole lot more damage than a picture of a girl. I guarantee those advertisers don't care about you or your community at all.

[laurin]

And what about all the drug, insurance, lawyer ads on TV trying to do whatever they can to get into your pockets? They can do you a whole lot more damage than a picture of a girl. I guarantee those advertisers don't care about you or your community at all.

Never said they did. It's not a zero sum game. But should I champion the picture of the stripper because there are worse things out there? No, they are all horrible.

[maxx]

How is Detroit going to attract mainstream businesses if the city is filled with strip clubs and people engaging in sex on neighborhood streets?Detroit should take a lesson from New York.

"...
The general atmosphere changed with the onset of the Great Depression in the 1930s. Times Square acquired a reputation as a dangerous neighborhood in the following decades. From the 1960s to the early 1990s, the seediness of the area, especially due its go go bars, sex shops, and adult theaters, became an infamous symbol of the city's decline.[8]
In the 1980s, a commercial building boom began in the western parts of the Midtown as part of a long-term development plan developed under Mayor Ed Koch and David Dinkins. In the mid-1990s, Mayor Rudolph Giuliani [[1994–2002) led an effort to "clean up" the area, increasing security, driving out pornographic theaters, drug dealers and "squeegee men", and opening more tourist-friendly attractions and upscale establishments...
In 1990, the state of New York took possession of six of the nine historic theatres on 42nd Street, and the New 42nd Street nonprofit organization was appointed to oversee their restoration and maintenance. The theatres were renovated for Broadway shows, converted for commercial purposes, or demolished." [wiki]

O my gawd! State take-over! Socialism!

[Fnemecek]

How is Detroit going to attract mainstream businesses if the city is filled with strip clubs and people engaging in sex on neighborhood streets?Detroit should take a lesson from New York.

1. Nothing in this series of new ordinances wil do anything to get rid of strip clubs and prostitution. As I've pointed out above, we'll likely have more prostitution in our neighborhoods rather than less because of this.
2. New York still has strip clubs.
3. If we're going to "take a lesson from New York", one should note that NYC didn't enact any new laws as part of their crackdown. It was purely a matter of improving enforcement for existing laws, which is something that Mayor Bing and the City Council are adamantly opposed to.

[SWMAP]

I agree that Detroit appears to welcome and so attract seedy businesses. Seems like the bar is very low lately. Michigan Ave is starting to look like a bawdy house [[architecture and store-fronts) and the nightime crowd is ugly and drunk and gang-y and "street" - a little scary if you are driving alone. So, a major street in Detroit is pretty much off-limits to mainstream families at night. No wonder so many neighborhood homes are vacant lately.

[Fnemecek]

I agree that Detroit appears to welcome and so attract seedy businesses. Seems like the bar is very low lately. Michigan Ave is starting to look like a bawdy house [[architecture and store-fronts) and the nightime crowd is ugly and drunk and gang-y and "street" - a little scary if you are driving alone. So, a major street in Detroit is pretty much off-limits to mainstream families at night. No wonder so many neighborhood homes are vacant lately.

Let me guess, you also think that the fire department showing up caused a house to catch on fire, right?

[maxx]

What laws aren't they enforcing? And is it a question of a need for more police?

[Fnemecek]

What laws aren't they enforcing? And is it a question of a need for more police?

1. Pretty much all of them.
2. Yes.

[terryh]

Im very dissapointed with the some of the male posters here on DYES. How can you as men, be opposed to a guy getting off in a VIP room? Seriously, pay for play alleviates a lot of stress and tension in society.Let them get their kicks and stop being uptight squares!

[JJD]

I find the revival of this thread entertaining. these "new rules" are a year old and were never enforced, complete non-issue.

[SWMAP]

"Let me guess, you also think that the fire department showing up caused a house to catch on fire, right?"

Frank, I'm a professional person working downtown. I have lived in SW Detroit 30 years. I know that there are other factors emptying Detroit out,. but on the SW side you have the imression, with Marvin's expansion to three operations and the other smaller clubs opening, that its no place for families.

Put a lot of Gigi's on West Warren and you'd have the same impression. As it is, I know the Polish funeral homes that have been on West Warren are moving because their clientele is moving.How'd you like those buildings to become strip clubs - it would be hard to take I bet, to have Warren taken over by that element. Nice people don't stay in or move into areas dominated by strip clubs. Just how it is.
I know that Michigan ave has had strip clubs since the days of the 32nd St. Show Bar, so its nothing new - but now they dominate and they have their crazy security guys showing who really runs things - and they do run things since recently. Just one opinion - no need to be sarcastic.

[Fnemecek]

Frank, I'm a professional person working downtown. I have lived in SW Detroit 30 years. I know that there are other factors emptying Detroit out,. but on the SW side you have the imression, with Marvin's expansion to three operations and the other smaller clubs opening, that its no place for families.

The problem there is that you're talking about the exterior signage and lighting for the club. The proposed ordinances will do absolutely nothing about those problems.

Granted, the City Council could address this issue through better regulation of commercial signage. However, that would require them to use their brains instead of their mouths.

Put a lot of Gigi's on West Warren and you'd have the same impression.

Please. Gigi's is just a random gay bar. From the outside, you can't even tell that it's a gay bar. It's just a nondescript building.

Besides, we already have 3 gay bars on W. Warren; all within a mile of each other. If someone wanted to open 30 more, I'd say welcome to the neighborhood.

As it is, I know the Polish funeral homes that have been on West Warren are moving because their clientele is moving. How'd you like those buildings to become strip clubs - it would be hard to take I bet, to have Warren taken over by that element. Nice people don't stay in or move into areas dominated by strip clubs. Just how it is.

I'll get to the nice people part in a moment.

As for the prospect of someone opening more strip clubs in my neighborhood, we already have one. If someone wanted to open another one, my concerns would be focused on better things, their signage and lighting.

I know that Michigan ave has had strip clubs since the days of the 32nd St. Show Bar, so its nothing new - but now they dominate and they have their crazy security guys showing who really runs things - and they do run things since recently. Just one opinion - no need to be sarcastic.

Okay - let's talk about whether or not nice people stay or move into areas with lots of strip clubs.

Michigan Ave. has had the same number of strip clubs for decades. In spite of that, up until recently, SW Detroit was the one part of town that was gaining population. If the number of strip clubs, or the activities in their VIP rooms, didn't deter people from moving to the area before, it's not likely to now.

Now, along Michigan Ave., we now have the incredibly tacky signage and lighting. That's a legitimate concern.

For starters, it overpowers every other business along that strip and makes it harder for them to operate. Strip clubs may pay a decent amount of taxes, but there's no way that pay enough to cover their entire footprint of influence.

Unfortunately, there's nothing in the current round of ordinances that does anything about that.

[river rat]

Strip Clubs actually lower crime in that they provide income for the addicted dancers and their boyfriends [[or whatever) so that they do not have to commit robberies and burglary to score their habit. It also localizes the patrons of such establishments where they can interact with one another whilst not affecting the larger community. The study done by the late Dottore Cecchini of Italia at the University of Valcalepio in the late 90's has prompted the expansion of such enterprises for what some deem morally corrupt in specified areas of cities and resulted in a lower crime rate.

[DetroitDad]

BRAVO!

Stripping is a sin!

Most of these women come from broken homes, and this should be a crime!

AND BY THE WAY, most of the people who go to thse "clubs" are from the suburbs...we dont need their immoral attitudes!

I wish that were true, I hardly think that many suburbanites outside of Highland Park and Hamtramck are going to strip clubs on 8 Mile or the radials. I knew of plenty of co-workers who lived in the City of Detroit who actually had a season pass for Deja Vu.

[jams]

BRAVO!

Stripping is a sin!

Most of these women come from broken homes, and this should be a crime!

AND BY THE WAY, most of the people who go to thse "clubs" are from the suburbs...we dont need their immoral attitudes!

http://www.salon.com/mwt/feature/200...tracy_pinched/

[Stosh]

I'm beginning to switch my opinion. Maybe Councilperson Watson is DD?

[chitaku]

Strip clubs and Sex are bad...why because that means we have to do our jobs as parents and actually talk to our kids about responsible sex-god forbid!. Boobs are also bad and they can hurt you or corrupt your children, God does not want you to enjoy life, HE says Just go to work and pay taxes!............

Now if you'll excuse me I am going to watch an extremely violent movie where people's limbs are sliced off [[kill bill) with the Kids!


chitaku- sarcastically keeping the strip clubs alive in 2009!

[DetroitDad]

http://www.salon.com/mwt/feature/200...tracy_pinched/

Like most of the women I spoke with, Alicia wasn't willing to ask for financial aid or a place to crash from her family or friends. For her, it was a matter of pride, of independence, not to mention control. For them, slinging burgers at a fast food joint means you've really hit bottom, while sex work at least allows for the illusion of being in charge. Looking back, Alicia found that calculation didn't exactly compute: "Sometimes I'm like, Dude, why didn't you just get a job at McDonald's? It's a paycheck," she says, slipping into the second person. "But you were at a point in your life where you had zero money to put food on the table. You had to do what you had to do. It's a survival thing." Not to mention a money thing: When it comes to a paycheck, turning tricks trumps minimum wage.

That's American capitalism baby! I'm always told on the Non Detroit forum that if I don't like it, I should leave....

[professorscott]

Thanks Bear. My post did not mean to imply that law enforcement is a "burden", though of course everyone is free to infer whatever they like from what I post. [[If you think "imply" and "infer" mean the same thing, please turn off your computer now and go do something less harmful.)

My concern is that we tend to pay a lot of attention to activity that is marginally criminal at the expense of activity that is explicitly and unarguably criminal. You can find people who would argue that prostitution should be decriminalized, or marijuana possession. You won't find anybody who would argue that burglary or car theft or rape should be decriminalized.

But when we instruct law enforcement to pay lots of attention to the marginal things [[or worse, things that border on marginal, like, oh, say, strip clubs), and you don't provide enough money for adequate law enforcement in the first place [[like, oh, say, in Detroit), then you don't have anybody left to enforce the unarguably criminal acts.

In my days living inside the D, I saw many, many policemen going into taverns to make sure nothing illegal was going on. I never saw any policeman try to investigate either of the burglaries for which I was the victim, nor either of the two auto thefts. I didn't leave Detroit because of the strip club four blocks from my house [[which there was); I never entered it and didn't give an eighth of a running fuck about it. I left Detroit because of the uninvestigated burglaries and auto thefts; the idea that the police couldn't be bothered with the actual crimes that victimized me and my family, because they were staking out the topless bar to make sure nobody was getting too good of a lap dance.

So I'm in favor of law enforcement, just let's be choosy how we spend our limited funds for it. Let's enforce the laws for which you or I might be an actual victim [[or in my case have been an actual victim) instead of trying to enforce some churchman's idea of morality on the rest of all of us. I don't go to strip clubs, but if you do, God bless you and have a great time. If you want to spark up a joint, enjoy the hell out of it. Those things don't have any impact on me at all, and it's not my business to tell you what to do for fun. I'm drinking a Labatt's Blue, and if you don't like that, I don't care.

The Prof, as you can see, has a mean Libertarian streak, a trait you don't find much in academia. [[But voted for Mr. Obama, so is not pure Libertarian.)

[cheddar bob]

BRAVO!

Stripping is a sin!

Most of these women come from broken homes, and this should be a crime!

AND BY THE WAY, most of the people who go to thse "clubs" are from the suburbs...we dont need their immoral attitudes!

Maybe stripping is a sin and maybe it's not. Who the fuck are you to regulate morality? Your religious leanings may make you feel that way, but not everybody subscribes to your religion or even your morals.

Fortunately, I'm not religious so there's nothing stopping me from going to see some strippers if I so choose. I'm glad I can make that decision and I'm not bound by your idea of what is right or wrong.

Also, do you have any evidence that, "...most of the people who go to thse "clubs" are from the suburbs"? Or is that just your opinion?

[LeannaM]

I don't like strip clubs, and I've never been to one. I don't approve of them.

That said, these rules will just drive strip clubs out. I realize strip clubs are a "not in my back yard" kind of place, but they do pay taxes and they take up space where restaurants and stores may not.

Obviously, Detroit is much larger, but some small towns really only have a couple restaurants/title loan places/liquor stores, and mostly strip clubs and bars.

Unless there are boatloads of more respectable businesses waiting to move in, I don't see why you would want to drive the strip clubs away.

Isn't the point of strip clubs to please men and get them drunk? Taking alcohol and lap dances away from strip clubs sounds like taking burgers and fries from McDonalds.

As a young woman, would I ever strip? Absolutely not. But these rules seem counterproductive.

And strip clubs are not needed, but if the city is desperate for tax dollars [[which most cities are it seems), I would think they would not be so picky as to what kind of businesses are operating in the city [[as long as they are, technically, "legal"). Beggars can't be choosers. Do strip clubs bring in a lot of revenue? Probably not. Does any city [[other than Vegas maybe) need them? No. However, since they exist anyway, I see no reason to drive them out.

[maxx]

Maybe stripping is a sin and maybe it's not. Who the fuck are you to regulate morality? Your religious leanings may make you feel that way, but not everybody subscribes to your religion or even your morals.

Fortunately, I'm not religious so there's nothing stopping me from going to see some strippers if I so choose.

You can still "see" strippers, baby. You just wouldn't be able to get down and dirty with them. Lap dancing is hardly a step removed from public sex. Passing and enforcing the new rules would be an attempt to keep Detroit from being one huge sleaze pot. And other cities manage with similar rules.

http://www.yourtango.com/20084521/ho...club-laws.html
http://www.seattlepi.com/local/24323...rules03ww.html
http://star.txstate.edu/content/stri...-rules-revised
http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/...ip-clubs_N.htm