15 Detroit Fire Companies closing, nearly 200 demotions

[iheartthed]

Ummm, the city quit being such a great place to live? Judging from the past census, it is an even worse place to live now. Detroit has a great location. When things hit total bottom, "urban pioneers" will slowly trickle back in and reclaim civilization from the rubble. Things just haven't hit bottom yet.

1950: 1,849,568
1960: 1,670,144
difference: -179,424

So, before Kwame, Coleman, the riots, busing and even before Detroit became anything close to a majority black city, Detroit was losing hundreds of thousands of residents per decade. Doesn't sound like it was such a great place to live back then either, does it?

[SWMAP]

Ah, the GI Bill happened and those young soldiers had to build new construction if they wanted to use their benefits. Crowded Detroit couldn't absorb them.
Possibly Detroit would have experienced an influx of people if the riots hadn't happened. How can you know what would have happened?

[Wesley Mouch]

You are slowly winning me over, 313WX. If we just had an EM start the bankruptcy process for us, we would not have to make such severe cuts to vital services. But then I remember that an EM could still impose salary, benefit and wage cuts on our workers too, which would still have everybody complaining that Fire and Police would be underpaid and would leave the City's employ in droves.

And just where do you think they're going?

[Carey]

To bring the thread back to the original topic, here is an update on the DFD:
They have sidelined about 40 percent of the fleet, an amazing experiment in a big American city that burns a lot. Deadline Detroit has the story:

http://www.deadlinedetroit.com/artic..._service_today

[Wesley Mouch]

To bring the thread back to the original topic, here is an update on the DFD:
They have sidelined about 40 percent of the fleet, an amazing experiment in a big American city that burns a lot. Deadline Detroit has the story:

http://www.deadlinedetroit.com/artic..._service_today

I'm not sure I'd call it an 'experiment'. Its a necessity. You can't buy what you can't afford -- at least not forever.

[Carey]

Agreed that money is a huge problem. It's "an experiment" in the sense the city is testing whether they can cut the DFD in such a sudden, large way, and not cause major loss of life or property. We'll see. Fingers crossed.

[cla1945]

"On the radio, its supervisor said: "After 113 years of service to the citizens of Detroit, Engine 23 is out of service."

All aspects of the City of Detroit are "out of service" as far as the citizens are concerned. Nothing is working, from police and fire protection, to street lights. What a sad day in Detroit's history and no one seems to care, especially those on the Council and the top administrators who were elected to do a job to protect the taxpayers, to serve the public and to make sure that Detroit stays alive. Instead, they are "self-serving" council members with large salaries, too many staff members with large salaries, both full and part time; and administrators, whose only interest is themselves and further political gain.

[coracle]

Based on TV/Newspaper reports I don't know of any place in Michigan where the council does less for ME than what is claimed in Detroit. There has to be a disconnect between what is expected in Detroit and/or they just can't afford the services they WANT. I think Detroit is angling to find somebody else to pay for their services. When other cities get into financial trouble they cut the services and get on with it; we don't suffer this long drawn out battle we see in Detroit. Not dealing with the problem immediately only exacerbates it into being a worse problem and the longer it sits there the worse it gets.

[313WX]

Based on TV/Newspaper reports I don't know of any place in Michigan where the council does less for ME than what is claimed in Detroit. There has to be a disconnect between what is expected in Detroit and/or they just can't afford the services they WANT. I think Detroit is angling to find somebody else to pay for their services. When other cities get into financial trouble they cut the services and get on with it; we don't suffer this long drawn out battle we see in Detroit. Not dealing with the problem immediately only exacerbates it into being a worse problem and the longer it sits there the worse it gets.

Detroit is by-far the largest city in Michigan [[larger than Boston) and thus is the only city in Michigan with big city expenses and probelms. You can't apply the same logic on Detroit as you did on some town like Benton Harbor. Solving the probelms this city faces is not as simple as just cutting services, which contrary to popular belief if you ask the residents of Detroit it has already been happening since the 1960s.

If your logic [["THIS town in Michigan does this, why can't Detroit do this!?") is the same logic everyone in Michigan has been applying to Detroit over the last 40 years, a Federal Bankruptcy Judge can't come soon enough.

[Hermod]

1950: 1,849,568
1960: 1,670,144
difference: -179,424

So, before Kwame, Coleman, the riots, busing and even before Detroit became anything close to a majority black city, Detroit was losing hundreds of thousands of residents per decade. Doesn't sound like it was such a great place to live back then either, does it?

Remember that the 1.8 million included a lot of young married couples doubling up in their parents homes duing the depression and war and wanting a space of their own. There were also massive amounts of migrants to the city during the war years that were being housed in quonsets and other pre-fab housing. Warren, Roseville and Fraser were just starting to open up and compete with the few remaining unbuilt lots in Detroit.

[jcdfde5]

The Detroit fire department is running on fumes!

The administration closed 22 companies on 7/5/2012. I was working and detailed to Engine One [[across from the Town Pump) and we responded to E. Robinwood and 75. We were The first rig!! We had 14 runs and 3 working dwelling fires!!

I understand the current fiscal issues facing the city but this roulette with the citizens must stop!!

The reorganization of the DFD has seriously compromised the safety of the citizens.

Soon we will be responding like the police!!

[Scottathew]

Thanks for the first-hand account. Please keep us posted.

The city could save some money by privatizing EMS. Take all the money from those operations and pour it into fire. But I don't know if it would be a significant enough amount, but it would be a start!


FYI - The run described above is an 8.1 mile run. It would talk a normal car 12 minutes with no traffic. I would imagine the time it would take a fire engine would be longer.

The Engine One - E. Robinwood run: http://goo.gl/maps/HDXn

[cla1945]

The Detroit fire department is running on fumes!

The administration closed 22 companies on 7/5/2012. I was working and detailed to Engine One [[across from the Town Pump) and we responded to E. Robinwood and 75. We were The first rig!! We had 14 runs and 3 working dwelling fires!!

I understand the current fiscal issues facing the city but this roulette with the citizens must stop!!

The reorganization of the DFD has seriously compromised the safety of the citizens.

Soon we will be responding like the police!!

The reorganization of the DFD not only compromised the safety of the citizens but it has also compromised the safety of you firefighters. Stay safe and you are in our prayers. The City of Detroit should be ashamed of themselves and someone needs to step in and do what the administration isn't doing.

Why keep rec centers open and lay off firemen? Why doesn't the administration cut other departments first? This hasn't been done and certainly needs to be done. Watson would rather see the City burn down than accept help from a white governor, absolutely asinine.

[SWMAP]

I live in SW Detroit. We are burning down. Every night; many times I a night I hear fire engine sirens. I know because I have a dog who howls like a wolf and I am very near the SW District Fire station. I know how hard and dangerous this work is. I am INCENSED that Charles Pugh has the money to hire his new little UM grad starlet boy for "policy" work [[what policy does that former news reader need to study any more) and we are living in fear as our neighborhoods are terrorized by arsonists and our firefighters exhausted by the battle.

We are living a nightmare.

[cla1945]

I live in SW Detroit. We are burning down. Every night; many times I a night I hear fire engine sirens. I know because I have a dog who howls like a wolf and I am very near the SW District Fire station. I know how hard and dangerous this work is. I am INCENSED that Charles Pugh has the money to hire his new little UM grad starlet boy for "policy" work [[what policy does that former news reader need to study any more) and we are living in fear as our neighborhoods are terrorized by arsonists and our firefighters exhausted by the battle.

We are living a nightmare.

Kind of like a "Twilight Zone" episode don't you think...only real life.

[Meddle]

The city could save some money by privatizing EMS. Take all the money from those operations and pour it into fire.

Now c'mon, you know it would only go to the Clowncil anyways.

Why spend money on the FD? Cutting the FD budget saves money two ways since every building that burns to the ground is one less they have to pay to have demolished.


The members left on DFD should just resign and go to work on other departments. There's nothing left to save in town anyways. Leave the brass in their fancy-dancy new HQ with nobody under them.

[Wesley Mouch]

"If you want peace -- work for justice"

If you want a good fire department -- work for financial solvency -- and pay no attention to municipal power brokers, city boundaries, politics, racism, prevailing wages, corporate oppression, or just about anything else.

Just pay attention that workers are paid reasonably [[with or without unions) and that taxes are fair. Those two tools -- with every thing else pushed aside -- can solve all.

[iheartthed]

Remember that the 1.8 million included a lot of young married couples doubling up in their parents homes duing the depression and war and wanting a space of their own. There were also massive amounts of migrants to the city during the war years that were being housed in quonsets and other pre-fab housing. Warren, Roseville and Fraser were just starting to open up and compete with the few remaining unbuilt lots in Detroit.

Well, if Detroit land was so in demand then, why were they building single family units instead of multi-family units on lots that should have demanded more density? That's usually what the market dictates when population increases to a point where the city gets built out.

[jcdfde5]

I live in SW Detroit. We are burning down. Every night; many times I a night I hear fire engine sirens. I know because I have a dog who howls like a wolf and I am very near the SW District Fire station. I know how hard and dangerous this work is. I am INCENSED that Charles Pugh has the money to hire his new little UM grad starlet boy for "policy" work [[what policy does that former news reader need to study any more) and we are living in fear as our neighborhoods are terrorized by arsonists and our firefighters exhausted by the battle.

We are living a nightmare.

Hold your breath!!
With the layoffs that are coming in a couple weeks..
The DFD is going to be EXPOSED on a whole new level!!
Just last year we made national news for the FireStorm and with the dry conditions and slow response time we are one good wind storm away..
I'm writing this only to bring attention to the situation not to scare anyone!

[kenp]

I feel bad about the DFD situation, but there just isnt any money.

[antongast]

I feel bad about the DFD situation, but there just isnt any money.

We're sitting here in the richest country in the world, talking about how "there isn't any money." Seems to me that what we're really saying is that the people who control the money have decided that Detroit shouldn't have any of it. Maybe you agree with that decision, and maybe you don't, but let's not act like Detroit's financial constraints are the result of some immutable law of the universe.

[coracle]

Detroit is by-far the largest city in Michigan [[larger than Boston) and thus is the only city in Michigan with big city expenses and probelms. You can't apply the same logic on Detroit as you did on some town like Benton Harbor. Solving the probelms this city faces is not as simple as just cutting services, which contrary to popular belief if you ask the residents of Detroit it has already been happening since the 1960s.

If your logic [["THIS town in Michigan does this, why can't Detroit do this!?") is the same logic everyone in Michigan has been applying to Detroit over the last 40 years, a Federal Bankruptcy Judge can't come soon enough.

You are right of course. But its interesting you use Benton Harbor as a comparison. We have friends in St. Joseph and spend a few days there nearly every year. Just returned after spending 5 days in St. Joes/Benton Harbor and I have to say that Benton Harbor looks much much better than it has for many years. I would say [[a guess) its well on the way to recovery.
You're also right that I would think a Federal Bankruptcy Judge can't come soon enough to rescue Detroit. I think its an inevitability that keeps being deferred because everybody is scared of making the decision. All the time the costs are escalating. Benton Harbor of course only has an EM.
Incidently BH has a spectacular beach - Jean Klock Beach - if anyone's interested that has been fully recovered and is now an asset that produces some income.

[jcdfde5]

I feel bad about the DFD situation, but there just isnt any money.

We as a membership [[DFFA) came to the city with a plan that would put more firefighters on the street and save the city more money than they currently are.. The city signed the agreement and the state said that it was not enough so it was scrapped!!
I think the State is already running this city and they don't understand the importance of the police and fire dept.
They view us as the problem and want to dissmantle what's left.

[TKshreve]

The other side of the coin is you have a culture that somehow finds it fun and inconsequential to burn its own city to ashes.

I guess there are a couple of ways to skin this cat.

[Meddle]

I feel bad about the DFD situation, but there just isnt any money.

Don't kid yourself. There's money available, even at the city level. It just isn't being used properly.