A Cop on Every Corner? Come Downtown for the Fireworks. It's Safe Tonight.

**DetBill** · June-26-12, 04:48 PM

Originally Posted by 1953

I love Detroit, but the crime and violence is extreme and requires extreme measures. If we have to ask 16 year olds to hang out with mom and dad, then so be it. We have to turn this city around and it won't happen with lax policing.

I agree totally on this one,, I love Detroit also, but a major portion of our youth in this town is way out of hand and the crime is way out of line . We need to get with it . Are there good ones? ofcourse there are, and in this typical scenario, the bad ones makes it tough for the good ones..but , Id rather see us err on the side of safety for the general population than being "tough" on the youth. Many of them have no concept of discipline . So, pick your poison I guess, but if you want this city to be viewed as usable and prosper you better have control of your unruly population,, if not no one will visit and if it gets worse, you will see many, like a 22 yr resident myself , who has stuck it out during very bad times already and invested in it several times , leave.

**Gannon** · June-26-12, 04:56 PM

I don't know if anyone heard of GM's harsh policy this year...everyone not working had to leave by 3, and NOBODY was allowed into the building that wasn't doing business...but I just learned the backstory on perhaps why.

Last year's patio party was totally destroyed by the crowd...who rushed the fence and broke it down. The food and bar were swamped, it was bedlam. More than a few executive families were affected, for sure.

Now you know more of why nobody is allowed on the Riverwalk during events any longer.

**corktownyuppie** · June-26-12, 05:56 PM

Originally Posted by mikeg19

In a perfect world, Detroit would be blanketed by that type of police presence on a daily basis. You can't prevent everything bad from ever happening, but you sure can deter it with that massive showing. Now if only money fell from the sky to pay for it all.........

In a perfect world, Detroit wouldn't be blanketed by that type of police presence, because in a perfect world that type of presence wouldn't be necessary.

I was just thinking aloud yesterday about whether there could be a better way to police the event. What if you put a 3-square-mile perimeter around the event, barricaded the perimeter and then focused high concentrations of policing only at the entry points. Sure, they'd be general security inside the "Green Zone" and probably some security patrolling the perimeters.

But this way [[for those in the zone, at least), you wouldn't need to find the police presence so oppressive. Moreover, whether you agree or disagree with the curfew, it's obvious that the communication of it could have been handled better. If there were only 4 or 5 entry points then they could check IDs at those points and refuse entries to minors.

This way they could be given the option to going home instead of having to be carted away.

The other thing that we have to confront is that there is definitely an element of unruliness in our young people. I'm not saying that all or even most of the 15-20 year old crowd is bad news. But we can't put our head in the sand or shrug, saying, "That's just kids being kids." No.

Is the curfew the best way? Maybe not. I'm open to hearing other suggestions. But I refuse to consider the idea that we will let "kids be kids" and then step in with law enforcement only if it gets out of hand. We've tried that. For years and years. The problem only gets worse.

It's not fair that the actions of a few make it bad for everyone. That's at the heart of this. If you could teach kids not to start fights in large groups, then this conversation would be different.

BTW, this is not just a Detroit thing or a black thing. Go across to Windsor on Oulette street and watch the chaos that ensues when all the 19-yr old bars close. Fights everywhere. Police in full force. It's a mess.

**cycledetroit** · June-26-12, 06:21 PM

I dont post often, but I wanted to link to this article I found about curfews and crime. "88% said curfew enforcement helped make streets safer; 83% said curfews helped curb gang violence"

http://articles.latimes.com/1997/dec/02/news/mn-59755

**detroitsgwenivere** · June-26-12, 06:36 PM

I'm siding with the teens. If they're legally old enough to drive, have sex, pay taxes and receive adult jail sentences, they're old enough to handle themselves in public before 11. If they do something stupid or genuinely harmful to another, then get the police involved. Not rocket science.

When we treat young adults like children, they will just as easily rebel, like they will act a fool if they had no guidance at all. Hell, I was working 2 jobs and practically living on my own aside from going to school when I was 16, and would have laughed in a cops face if he tried to ticket me for going to a public event I helped pay for with no parent.

It looks to me like the advocation of a 6PM fireworks curfew for 16 yr olds on this board has more to do with people selfishly wanting to obtain a false sense of protection from these teens, not one of you citing a desire to protect these youngfolks from the miriad of things that might subject them to possible danger. At least I could respect THAT argument.

There will always be a few bad apples in any bunch [[like in any grown folks venue), but discriminating against young adults out of fear of what they might be capable of isn't preventative, its just knee jerk.

And for anyone who was wondering [[and since I walked up on it while it was going on), the shots on Bagley were fired to break up a stompfest taking place upon a young person by several grown ass adults right outside of the Clement- Kerns. Figures.

**iheartthed** · June-26-12, 07:12 PM

Originally Posted by detroitsgwenivere

When we treat young adults like children, they will just as easily rebel, like they will act a fool if they had no guidance at all. Hell, I was working 2 jobs and practically living on my own aside from going to school when I was 16, and would have laughed in a cops face if he tried to ticket me for going to a public event I helped pay for with no parent.

It looks to me like the advocation of a 6PM fireworks curfew for 16 yr olds on this board has more to do with people selfishly wanting to obtain a false sense of protection from these teens, not one of you citing a desire to protect these youngfolks from the miriad of things that might subject them to possible danger. At least I could respect THAT argument.

Yeah, I really don't know what type of city people expect to build under a police state. If you want Detroit to be a vibrant city with diversity, street life and open public spaces... Then the way to achieve that is not by restricting a segment of the population from enjoying the public spaces.

The preoccupation with restricting certain segments of the population from public spaces is peculiarly a Detroit area thing. I've noticed more than a few times how people complain that a X public space would be better if it didn't have so much of Y certain type of people. It's either "he River Walk would be better if it didn't have so many teenagers", or "the Rosa Parks bus depot can't be used because homeless people go there", or "Belle Isle is off limits because ghetto people go there", etc. That's really not how successful cities operate. Let the cops maintain the order but they should not be arbitrarily choosing who can and cannot be in public.

**TMR** · June-26-12, 08:55 PM

The city closing off Riverwalk to the public I believe is illegal seeing as they used monies from the federal and state governments for use as a public area.
Also the fact part of it is a state park.

**Zacha341** · June-26-12, 08:56 PM

I think it's around $250-500. More if a car is pounded: the tow of vehicle, connection fee, time at the impound lot daily accruing. Good times!

When Detroit has its forfeited car auctions from this and all of the booting for tickets it should be real treat for whole salers and used car insiders that get there before the open bids and sales to the public!

Originally Posted by BRAZZMAN

Anybody know how much money the parents have to fork over for these curfew violations?

**SWMAP** · June-26-12, 10:16 PM

Part of the Riverwalk IS a State Park - and don't you have to pay an admission to a State Park. And aren't there rules posted? Why would you assume that Federal funding means something will be free to all comers and that there wouldn't be admission rules about minors - who aren't after all, legally emancipated.

**daddeeo** · June-27-12, 09:18 AM

Sounds like fun.
Glad I missed out.

**Gannon** · June-27-12, 10:24 AM

Here is a relatively empty article from the News. I sent the writer an e-mail with the twenty questions he should've asked for a decent follow-up. We'll see if we get it.

http://www.detroitnews.com/article/2...-curfew-arrest

**Gannon** · June-27-12, 10:26 AM

Here's the text of my e-mail:

Josh,

Can we get a follow-up on this story?

How much do these tickets cost each parent?

For the few who resisted detainment, or attempted to escape [[there were at least three or four that we saw)...what was the increased charge, if any? Basically, how many kids got MORE than just the curfew ticket?

How many of these detained and transported also had additional charges, from possession to disorderly conduct? There were at least three girls taken away in a separate squad car who were with the first group gathered, just after six o'clock...after the police commandeered a D-DOT bus [[much to the surprise of its driver, btw), when it became evident they needed to keep the boys and girls apart...and they only thought ahead to bring ONE paddy-bus to the party!

What happened to the young man in white who was served a beat-down by the police for insubordination? He was put on the second male bus, but then yanked off when it seemed he was causing a ruckus, beat AGAIN, then put into a separate squad car. He was harassed multiple times IN the squad car by antagonistic police, who seemed to be having way too much fun doing this.

How many children were STILL in custody after staying all night?! In other words, how many DIDN'T get picked up by their parents?!

From basic math, it would seem to be 135, since they claim to have detained 285 kids and only wrote 150 parental supervision tickets.

And what else did this cost the families involved, in terms of travel costs and loss of job time...or anything of the sort?

Can we get some real journalism here? Your story didn't answer enough questions. Please reply, or I will go above your head. These answers are very important, and yours so far is the only story which is covering it...so I have some hope for you!

Cheers,
John Gannon

In the re-read, though, that last line could've been a bit softer. I just get pissed when I read a news article that doesn't really say anything useful.

**Gannon** · June-27-12, 10:27 AM

Where the HELL was his editor?!

**Gannon** · June-27-12, 10:30 AM

I'd also like a detailed report on the number of times this was warned about in advance, the curfew was only approved the week before...not NEARLY enough time to permeate their intended market.

Once again, City Council proves themselves to be a group of clowns. Here I was blaming ONLY the Chief. Sorry, Pastor, please forgive me! I know you can.

Cheers!

**TMR** · June-27-12, 02:50 PM

Originally Posted by SWMAP

Part of the Riverwalk IS a State Park - and don't you have to pay an admission to a State Park. And aren't there rules posted? Why would you assume that Federal funding means something will be free to all comers and that there wouldn't be admission rules about minors - who aren't after all, legally emancipated.

I was talking about everybody.They wouldn't allow anybody across Jefferson if they didn't have pass.That is restricting the public from the riverfront I couldn't even sit by GM lot c.

**iheartthed** · June-27-12, 02:53 PM

Wow, it's even more absurd than I thought. People under 18 could ONLY be there with their parent??? Not a neighbor, uncle/aunt or grandparent unless they were the actual legal guardian?

Shollin · June-27-12, 03:06 PM

You're damned if you do, damned if you don't. If they don't have cops cracking down and keeping things under control and someone gets hurt, it's the cops fault. The cops make sure nothing happens this year and people complain.

Perhaps Center Line should've had a cop on every corner.

**corktownyuppie** · June-27-12, 03:33 PM

Originally Posted by iheartthed

Wow, it's even more absurd than I thought. People under 18 could ONLY be there with their parent??? Not a neighbor, uncle/aunt or grandparent unless they were the actual legal guardian?

Ok, I agree with you on this. I'm not against teenagers enjoying the show. But I am against teenagers unsupervised. Why? The same reason why Fairlane Mall, Northland Mall, Eastland Mall all have restrictions about unsupervised minors.

But you and your friend show up with your friends' grandma? I'm alright with that.

**Gannon** · June-27-12, 10:24 PM

So...I got a soft confirmation today from one in the know that those two who were removed from Hart Plaza on stretchers WERE shot.

That explains the stampede AND the exodus. It was not forced, it was merely families taking their children away from any more potential violence.

So, for any journalists in the crowd...can we find out how this can be covered up? How the police can say there were NO incidents during the fireworks?!

It IS just like the woman who was killed within the safe zone during the SuperBowl festivities...and the return fire into the crowd from the female cop eight years ago at the Fireworks.

And we wonder why nobody was caught for those...they couldn't afford to find the perp, because they'd have to admit the incidents happened.

**Gannon** · June-28-12, 08:51 AM

Really?

No comments in almost twelve hours after mine?

I know I shut some of the Pollyanna's up with this dose of reality...but we saw the stampede. We saw the exodus of people at the VERY beginning of the show.

Now we know why.

I'm burning with this knowledge and want this fire to spread. I want honesty and truth and transparency in government...not this cover-up bullshit.

Is it only because the governor was at the party on the rooftop of the closest parking structure to this incident?!

Is it because their overwhelming force FAILED?

Is it because the troublemaker couldn't be snagged in a simple dragnet of innocents?

I'm curious what the motives are for a city to lie about something like this...and why everyone who witnessed it hasn't spoken out, or why if they HAVE is it being ignored by the press?

Sincerely,
John

**Farnsworthfarms** · June-28-12, 09:03 AM

I feel you Gannon! I dont want to know that Snyder is why they closed off the public areas so he could have the place to himself...Sadly we are going to feel this fire more as the poor are corraled into zones that exclude them from the rest of the 'new' detroit.

Was it BCBS that used to have a killer fireworks party in their office?? I am so sure that the 1000 GM employees would have caused more traffic congestion...its not like there is a major freeway entrance 1000yard from your parking garage...at least with the firemen they could burn a few houses to get attention

**corktownyuppie** · June-28-12, 10:35 AM

Originally Posted by Gannon

Really?

No comments in almost twelve hours after mine?

I know I shut some of the Pollyanna's up with this dose of reality...but we saw the stampede. We saw the exodus of people at the VERY beginning of the show.

Now we know why.

I'm burning with this knowledge and want this fire to spread. I want honesty and truth and transparency in government...not this cover-up bullshit.

Is it only because the governor was at the party on the rooftop of the closest parking structure to this incident?!

Is it because their overwhelming force FAILED?

Is it because the troublemaker couldn't be snagged in a simple dragnet of innocents?

I'm curious what the motives are for a city to lie about something like this...and why everyone who witnessed it hasn't spoken out, or why if they HAVE is it being ignored by the press?

Sincerely,
John

I'm curious as well. I'm not saying that your sources are inaccurate. I'm simply waiting for some other party to corroborate it. Between the Det News, Freep, MLive, HuffPo Detroit, Michigan Citizen, MI Chronicle, Metro Times Weekly....if this story really has legs, they'd be chomping at the bit to report it.

**corktownyuppie** · June-28-12, 10:37 AM

Forgot one... http://motorcitymuckraker.com/. He'll definitely report on this if it's got wheels. Tell your soft sources to step up to the plate and let the truth be heard.

**TMR** · June-28-12, 11:46 AM

I've heard it was GM that wanted the Riverwalk closed off becuase of last year's problem when people crashed there party after they took some of Riverwalk for themselves.Not sure if that's true but sure seems that way to me.

**Gannon** · June-28-12, 11:53 AM

Originally Posted by corktownyuppie

Forgot one... http://motorcitymuckraker.com/. He'll definitely report on this if it's got wheels. Tell your soft sources to step up to the plate and let the truth be heard.

They are not eye-witnesses.

I'd like to hear from anyone who was in that area...unfortunately, everyone I associate directly with is a bit, um, wiser than that.

I mean, who willingly becomes part of the crowd like that? LOL.

Even eight years ago, I found a nice spot where nobody was near, under cover since it was going to rain. I've avoided the Fireworks since, if memory serves...but the chance to watch from my partner's office window, with paid parking under the governor's party, with some of our friends and her amazingly cool co-workers, was too much to avoid.

I did learn that HER boss and his wife witnessed that shooting and the riotous aftermath a block away from his corner windows eight years ago...and have NEVER been back. So, I'm not the only one with PTSD, I merely try to forget negative things and pray they don't continue to affect me.

I was totally blindsided over how this whole night affected me, my girlfriend and I had a big blowup about it all...which ended up bringing us closer together after we'd figured it all out.

Cheers