No Thanksgiving day parade?

[iheartthed]

See you don't get out much... they do have the huge firewords in the suburban displays... many of the same ones that are seen in Detroit... just not in the quantity and multi-barge simultaneous shootoffs that Detroit has. There's no doubt that Detroit's blows every other one out of the water. But for a lot of folks... it's enough to see their own town fireworks shooting hundreds of feed into the air... and not deal with the traffic issues of the riverfront ones...

Maybe Detroit should start collecting a fee [[although the logistics of that are difficult).... but no suburbs are going to be sending their own policemen downtown... that's not gonna happen.

And if Detroit does cancel its' fireworks... the suburban ones will still likely be happening...

Detroit has New Year's Eve celebrations... But it ain't Times Square.

Seriously, what was the point in mentioning that some suburbs host fireworks shows? We can all debate whether asking suburbs to put up money for the show is a good idea. But it's not up to debate that if there is no Detroit fireworks show then that would be a HUGE void in the summer events schedule.

[Detroitnerd]

See you don't get out much... they do have the huge firewords in the suburban displays... many of the same ones that are seen in Detroit... just not in the quantity and multi-barge simultaneous shootoffs that Detroit has. There's no doubt that Detroit's blows every other one out of the water. But for a lot of folks... it's enough to see their own town fireworks shooting hundreds of feed into the air... and not deal with the traffic issues of the riverfront ones...

Yeah, just like for a lot of people it's cool to look at the drawings their children do. Just stick 'em on the refrigerator. No need to go through the hassle of getting on a plane and going to the Louvre to see the Mona Lisa.

[GUSHI]

Yes, I have heard of it. No, it's not held in a single suburban community.

Arts beats and eats? Mt clemenns fireworks?

[Gistok]

Yeah, just like for a lot of people it's cool to look at the drawings their children do. Just stick 'em on the refrigerator. No need to go through the hassle of getting on a plane and going to the Louvre to see the Mona Lisa.

.... so what you're saying is what's the point of going to Campust Martius for New years.... when the real deal is Times Square??

[iheartthed]

Arts beats and eats? Mt clemenns fireworks?

Neither draw nearly the size of a crowd at one time that the fireworks in downtown Detroit does [[or the Thanksgiving Day parade). According to the Oakland Press, Arts Beats and Eats had a total attendance of 325,000 for the entire Labor Day weekend last year. That's less than half the estimated 1 million people who go to downtown Detroit in one single night to watch the fireworks.

[Gistok]

My point was not that the Detroit Fire Works should die, and the suburban ones would still continue [[which they would)... my point is that if you're going to get folks down to the river to see the best of all fireworks, then there needs to be some way to pony up to help pay for the experience.

And besides, a suburban police presence at the Detroit Fireworks along the river would likely not go over too well with a lot of Detroiters.

[BrushStart]

See you don't get out much... they do have the huge firewords in the suburban displays... many of the same ones that are seen in Detroit... just not in the quantity and multi-barge simultaneous shootoffs that Detroit has. There's no doubt that Detroit's blows every other one out of the water. But for a lot of folks... it's enough to see their own town fireworks shooting hundreds of feed into the air... and not deal with the traffic issues of the riverfront ones...

Maybe Detroit should start collecting a fee [[although the logistics of that are difficult).... but no suburbs are going to be sending their own policemen downtown... that's not gonna happen.

And if Detroit does cancel its' fireworks... the suburban ones will still likely be happening...

Gistok, I admit that my gut reaction was a little harsh toward the suburbs. I've even been to some of the suburban fireworks displays, notably Canton and also downriver. However, all of the suburban fireworks displays combined cannot replace the importance of the regional display on the Detroit River. This is the event that people talk about, the one they come from afar to see. This is the event that defines us as Metro Detroiters and is a reflection of the greatness of our civilization. Likewise, the Thanksgiving Day Parade is a source of regional pride and rooted in our common history as Metro Detroiters. The importance of these events stretches far beyond Detroit's city borders. It is thus the responsibility of Metro Detroiters to pay for and sustain these events if they wish to continue to show the world that we still exist, that we still celebrate, and that this region is still a relevant place in the world. There is as much symbolism behind holding these major events in Detroit's core as there is entertainment value. People come downtown for the fireworks, not just to enjoy the display, but to share in the collective experience of being "of this place." All I am saying is: please, share in the cost.

[Gistok]

Brushstart, I agree with you 100% on sharing the costs.... but the devil is in the details... I wish there were some way to get folks who attend to pony up... need to find a way.

I also agree that our former "Hudson's Thanksgiving Day Parade [[held since the mid 1920s) is more than just "America's Parade"... it's a tradition that needs to be continued. As someone who had only ever once been to the 12th floor of Hudson's for the Toyland display... I can understand fully well that that magic cannot be replicated elsewhere in the metro area... just like back then you could not replicate that feeling at Northland or Eastland. And the same holds true for events like the Fireworks and Parade.

[iheartthed]

Brushstart, I agree with you 100% on sharing the costs.... but the devil is in the details... I wish there were some way to get folks who attend to pony up... need to find a way.

There is a pretty easy way to get folks who attend to pony up, a tactic that most other major cities have at their disposal, but is currently illegal in Michigan... The state could allow Detroit to administer a sales tax on the services that would be used for the events: parking, restaurants, bars, etc.

[bailey]

There is a pretty easy way to get folks who attend to pony up, a tactic that most other major cities have at their disposal, but is currently illegal in Michigan... The state could allow Detroit to administer a sales tax on the services that would be used for the events: parking, restaurants, bars, etc.

Frankly, i'd agree if Detroit wasn't Detroit. But a new tax is going to a tough sell in a city that has a struggling private sector and real problems getting any investment. I mean tourist traps like Slow's would not see a dent, but what about those places that can't get mentions in glowing NYT articles? How many people are going to pay a 5%[[?) premium to drink in Detroit?

And really, should the city with a ridiculously high tax burden on it's citizens while providing virtually no services REALLY be looking at MORE taxes right now?

How about pausing the fireworks and parade a few years and tabling the discussion of new taxes to support them until the disaster that is CoD finances is sorted out?

[Detroit Stylin]

This state and region are fucked and seemed they would rather die separately than thrive together....

[iheartthed]

And really, should the city with a ridiculously high tax burden on it's citizens while providing virtually no services REALLY be looking at MORE taxes right now?

If the tax would more even spread the cost of services to those who use the services, yes.

[bailey]

If the tax would more even spread the cost of services to those who use the services, yes.

So what's next? a special tax to get your garbage picked up?..er, oh wait... How about a neighborhood surcharge to get the grass mowed in the adjacent park?

I understand where you're coming from and I'd generally agree with it if Detroit weren't a failed city. I just don't see how adding more taxes to detroiters [[on top of the already onerous tax burden) in order to provide things a real, functioning City provides as a matter of course is the solution. No one is going to support a regional tax to have fireworks and a parade in Detroit. Not when every town in the state that has their own are either talking about cutting them, or already have, because of budget issues of their own.

I mean we're talking about a once a year HEAVILY sponsored Parade and fireworks display. Either this is a manufactured crisis or it's FAR worse here than anyone was previously willing to admit.

IF it really is true, then all this shit [[every free event anywhere in the city...including the seemly hundreds of cops assigned to tigers/lions/redwings games) should end today and it should only come back after an EFM or Bankruptcy judge rightsizes the city's labor force and aligns revenue with spending.

The events should then come back with a entrance fee that covers the cost of holding them or they should only be brought back if there is room in the budget for the policing and clean up costs of "prestige" events.

[jackie5275]

I mean we're talking about a once a year HEAVILY sponsored Parade and fireworks display. Either this is a manufactured crisis or it's FAR worse here than anyone was previously willing to admit.

I speculate it's somewhat manufactured regarding these 2 events.

The events should then come back with a entrance fee that covers the cost of holding them or they should only be brought back if there is room in the budget for the policing and clean up costs of "prestige" events.

I remember in the late 80s or early 90s when the parade was on the ropes financially, the Parade Co started taking donations & selling Parade Pins as a way to raise funds to maintain its operation. Maybe they need to do that again. If it's important enough to people, they'll kick in for it if they can afford to do so.

[iheartthed]

I understand where you're coming from and I'd generally agree with it if Detroit weren't a failed city. I just don't see how adding more taxes to detroiters [[on top of the already onerous tax burden) in order to provide things a real, functioning City provides as a matter of course is the solution. No one is going to support a regional tax to have fireworks and a parade in Detroit. Not when every town in the state that has their own are either talking about cutting them, or already have, because of budget issues of their own.

Here's the thing. Detroit hosts these events but is not able to levy a sales tax on goods or services purchased in the city of Detroit. Detroit cannot collect tax revenue from sales of ticket to Tigers games, Red Wings games, Lions games, alcoholic beverages or food. I don't know if you've ever visited NYC but if you have then take a look at a receipt for something you purchased and you will see a 4% sales tax levied by NYS and another 4% tax levied by NYC.

I mean we're talking about a once a year HEAVILY sponsored Parade and fireworks display. Either this is a manufactured crisis or it's FAR worse here than anyone was previously willing to admit.

Well, the revenue model has been broken for quite some time. When the average price of houses in the city have fallen by 50-70%, and the city derives a significant amount of its revenue from that... Pretty clear that the situation is unsustainable.

IF it really is true, then all this shit [[every free event anywhere in the city...including the seemly hundreds of cops assigned to tigers/lions/redwings games) should end today and it should only come back after an EFM or Bankruptcy judge rightsizes the city's labor force and aligns revenue with spending.

The events should then come back with a entrance fee that covers the cost of holding them or they should only be brought back if there is room in the budget for the policing and clean up costs of "prestige" events.

No argument from me there.

[Detroitnerd]

.... so what you're saying is what's the point of going to Campust Martius for New years.... when the real deal is Times Square??

I'm talking about the fireworks. But that's cool. Go see the 15-minute fireworks out in podunkville. But I'm warning you -- you may be a little ... easily impressed ...

[bailey]

Here's the thing. Detroit hosts these events but is not able to levy a sales tax on goods or services purchased in the city of Detroit. Detroit cannot collect tax revenue from sales of ticket to Tigers games, Red Wings games, Lions games, alcoholic beverages or food. I don't know if you've ever visited NYC but if you have then take a look at a receipt for something you purchased and you will see a 4% sales tax levied by NYS and another 4% tax levied by NYC.

I agree that this should be put in place. However, only after the finances are sorted out. Isn't it a moot point though? Wouldn't it take a constitutional amendment to allow it?