Hamtramck

**DetroitPlanner** · June-09-12, 10:56 PM

Many young professionals do not want to live in ethnic enclaves.
What makes things attractive for ethnic groups is not that same as what makes a neighborhood attractive to young professionals. Ethnic groups like Hamtramck because its a bargain. Young professionals equate affordability to unstable places. Young professionals care less about dollar stores and ethnic groceries than they care about starbucks or whole foods. In short, while Hamtramck is very cool to a large population of city dwellers, young professionals would rather not live there. Heck they might have to share a flat with someone with ESL!

Shollin · June-10-12, 10:12 AM

Originally Posted by DetroitPlanner

Many young professionals do not want to live in ethnic enclaves.
What makes things attractive for ethnic groups is not that same as what makes a neighborhood attractive to young professionals. Ethnic groups like Hamtramck because its a bargain. Young professionals equate affordability to unstable places. Young professionals care less about dollar stores and ethnic groceries than they care about starbucks or whole foods. In short, while Hamtramck is very cool to a large population of city dwellers, young professionals would rather not live there. Heck they might have to share a flat with someone with ESL!

What your saying is the yuppies who buy these lofts in Royal Oak just want the illusion of being in an urban setting? They talk about how they want walk ability, urbanization, culture, and diversity, but doesn't Hamtramck have that? Ferndale was anything but a trendy place in the 80's and into 90's. Midtown didn't have a Starbucks or Whole Foods till the yuppies started to move in. Why can't new lofts be built on Joseph Campau?

I also have to LOL at the lack of driveways comment. Chicago and New York outside of maybe Staten Island and Queens lacks driveways. I read on here how walk ability is so wonderful and then read about a lack of driveways.

**DetroitPlanner** · June-10-12, 10:28 AM

Originally Posted by Shollin

What your saying is the yuppies who buy these lofts in Royal Oak just want the illusion of being in an urban setting? They talk about how they want walk ability, urbanization, culture, and diversity, but doesn't Hamtramck have that? Ferndale was anything but a trendy place in the 80's and into 90's. Midtown didn't have a Starbucks or Whole Foods till the yuppies started to move in. Why can't new lofts be built on Joseph Campau?

Exactly. The whole premise behind the young professional lifestyle is to go for the high end cookie cutter. Unless kielbasa and paan become fashionable, I can't see the area attracting a lot of loft dwellers. Without a market, the developers are going to shy away from creating large numbers of lofts.

Shollin · June-10-12, 10:34 AM

Originally Posted by DetroitPlanner

Exactly. The whole premise behind the young professional lifestyle is to go for the high end cookie cutter. Unless kielbasa and paan become fashionable, I can't see the area attracting a lot of loft dwellers. Without a market, the developers are going to shy away from creating large numbers of lofts.

Midtown didn't have a market. Ferndale and Royal Oak were dying suburbs. The lofts came before Whole Foods and Starbucks. I guess I hear yuppies talking about how they want culture, diversity, and walk ability, but the areas most dense and most diverse city doesn't appeal to them.

**corktownyuppie** · June-10-12, 11:47 AM

Originally Posted by Shollin

Midtown didn't have a market. Ferndale and Royal Oak were dying suburbs. The lofts came before Whole Foods and Starbucks. I guess I hear yuppies talking about how they want culture, diversity, and walk ability, but the areas most dense and most diverse city doesn't appeal to them.

As a representative of this demographic subset, I have a lot to say about this but will hold back because I'm curious to see where the conversation goes. For now, let me offer that there is a big distinction among the yuppies who live in Midtown/Downtown vs. Royal Oak vs. Birmingham vs. Plymouth vs. Novi.

Awareness of these differences is important in understanding what's driving this people who are similar in age/education/income but very disparate in what they value in living space.

**rjk** · June-10-12, 12:51 PM

Originally Posted by Shollin

Midtown didn't have a market. Ferndale and Royal Oak were dying suburbs. The lofts came before Whole Foods and Starbucks. I guess I hear yuppies talking about how they want culture, diversity, and walk ability, but the areas most dense and most diverse city doesn't appeal to them.

When were Ferndale and RO ever dying suburbs? By whatever standard you're going to use to define them as dying what exactly would you consider Hamtramck to be in its current condition?

I think some people have a way too rosy view of Hamtramck.
I've noticed an increasing amount of uncivil/brutish behavior. I use to say that Hamtramck is a nice place to visit but I wouldn't want to live there. It's increasingly becoming a place that I don't even want to vist.

Whenever I'm in Hamtramck what strikes me is the amount of litter. Whether it's Joesph Campau, many of the neighborhoods or parks there just doesn't seem to be enough civic pride in keeping the city clean.

Shollin · June-10-12, 01:10 PM

Originally Posted by rjk

When were Ferndale and RO ever dying suburbs? By whatever standard you're going to use to define them as dying what exactly would you consider Hamtramck to be in its current condition?

I think some people have a way too rosy view of Hamtramck.
I've noticed an increasing amount of uncivil/brutish behavior. I use to say that Hamtramck is a nice place to visit but I wouldn't want to live there. It's increasingly becoming a place that I don't even want to vist.

Whenever I'm in Hamtramck what strikes me is the amount of litter. Whether it's Joesph Campau, many of the neighborhoods or parks there just doesn't seem to be enough civic pride in keeping the city clean.

The 80's. When I was younger it was never hip to live in Ferndale, and if memory serves me correctly, downtown Royal Oak was just a bunch of shuttered warehouses and small factories. They both continue to lose population and Ferndale's population loss is outpacing Hamtramck's loss. You're missing the whole point. It's about the potential. Someone realized the potential of the abandoned warehouses in Royal Oak and created a yuppie utopia. Before that it wasn't a desirable suburb. Hamtramck has the potential.

**trotwood** · June-10-12, 01:38 PM

I can't answer OP's question but just had to pop in to say that I love Hamtramck! It's a great city. I came very close to moving there a few years ago.

**dtowncitylover** · June-10-12, 05:47 PM

Originally Posted by Shollin

The 80's. When I was younger it was never hip to live in Ferndale, and if memory serves me correctly, downtown Royal Oak was just a bunch of shuttered warehouses and small factories. They both continue to lose population and Ferndale's population loss is outpacing Hamtramck's loss. You're missing the whole point. It's about the potential. Someone realized the potential of the abandoned warehouses in Royal Oak and created a yuppie utopia. Before that it wasn't a desirable suburb. Hamtramck has the potential.

What? Little factories and warehouses? Yeah, those line Main and Washington. The reason Royal Oak and Ferndale has been losing population is because these were baby boomer suburbs. Their schools filled in the 50s to the 70s. But now, baby boomers have moved out to 100 Mile and Van Dyke and left their parents here, only to come back on Friday and Saturday nights. However, those children of the baby boomers, such as myself, are starting to move back into these communities, albeit at slow place. Downtown Royal Oak used to serve the Royal Oak community. It was, before the 90s, never a destination downtown like it is today.

**DetroitPlanner** · July-16-12, 07:33 AM

Originally Posted by Shollin

The 80's. When I was younger it was never hip to live in Ferndale, and if memory serves me correctly, downtown Royal Oak was just a bunch of shuttered warehouses and small factories. They both continue to lose population and Ferndale's population loss is outpacing Hamtramck's loss. You're missing the whole point. It's about the potential. Someone realized the potential of the abandoned warehouses in Royal Oak and created a yuppie utopia. Before that it wasn't a desirable suburb. Hamtramck has the potential.

Thats my recollection too. But then Hamtramck was full of businesses as well. What folks seem to not understand is that things cycle, particularly when you're talking about a market as huge as metro Detroit where everyone is always looking for something new. It wasn't until the late 1980's that people even talked about going to Royal Oak as a destination. Ferndale lagged Royal Oak by about 10 years. I am concerned however that many of these communities are losing staples in favor of what is fashionable. As rents rise retailers have to figure out how to change to stay in business and often this makes a grocery store or hardware store disconinue basic stuff in favor of higher profit stuff or risk being put out of business entirely.

**DetroitPlanner** · June-11-12, 02:44 PM

Originally Posted by Shollin

Midtown didn't have a market. Ferndale and Royal Oak were dying suburbs. The lofts came before Whole Foods and Starbucks. I guess I hear yuppies talking about how they want culture, diversity, and walk ability, but the areas most dense and most diverse city doesn't appeal to them.

Midtown has always had a market. WSU & DMC brings in thousands of people. Royal Oak and Ferndale were always known to be good places to live even before the drunk yuppie food courts invaded their downtowns.