Hotel Charlevoix Owner Petitions for Permission to Demolish

[Gistok]

Bring your cash, and you could have bought it. You didn't.

Otherwise, stop infringing on the rights of others.

The owners are doing with it as they see fit. That remains allowable behavior in the US. Its a civil right.

You've been on this forum for nearly 2 years and in all that time you haven't learned about the nuances of historic preservation and historic districts??

You can't just buy a property in the West Canfield Historic District, or the East Ferry Historic District [[for example), and expect to use your "constitutional rights" to do as you please.... ditto for the Park Ave. Historic District.

[Richard]

Between 1950 and 2009, more than 100,000 factory jobs and 300,000 people—50 percent of Pittsburgh's population—skipped town, according to census data.

"Preservation of cultural and historic assets is a critical issue because these resources broadly contribute to the city's character. They make neighborhoods places where people want to live, work, invest, learn and spend their time," says the draft, which notes the city's ties to the French and Indian War, immigration history and industrialization.

Read more: http://www.post-gazette.com/stories/...#ixzz1xVqUALMr

The plan says preservation and demolition should be complementary processes in neighborhood revitalization. "The problem with historic preservation in Pittsburgh is that there are monies for demolitions but yet none available for stabilization," city planning director Noor Ismail said in an email.

http://apps.pittsburghpa.gov/dcp/PRE...06-2012%29.pdf

I know most like to compare Chicago to Detroit but when it comes to things like this there are a lot of similarities,much seems to hinge on city pride and it kinda makes one wonder if there was a bit more pride involved there may be less problems elsewhere like trash in the parks,graffiti,disrespecting ones neighbors etc.

Tourism belive it or not does create another revenue source for the city and businesses,tourists do not come to a city in awe of parking lots,so hopefully maybe not now but once the smoke clears from recent events just maybe there will be something left to see.

In this case I would think the same amount it would cost to demolish,which would have to be paid up front anyways could maybe be spent on mothballing?

Once the city is on more firmer ground then start doing what should have been done years ago.

[illwill]

I often think what Detroit would look like today if the old timer residents didn't flee the city and would have stuck it out through the bad times like they did in Chicago and other North American rust belt cities. I think the reason Chicago has the character that it does now is in part, due to the struggles they've endured. The reason the city is so mean and hateful and nasty but in the end, the whites fought to keep their neighborhoods intact, the polish, the blacks, Cubans on the North west side, mexicans, Puerto Ricans etc. Through the race politics, corruption, heavy street crimes etc. It must have been extremely hard to live in a big city during those times.

Unfortunately for them, they are being forced out because of gentrification but for the most part, the buildings are still intact. Most of the city aside from a huge portion of the devastated Southside areas are making strong come backs. Because many of these buildings were left to some sort of habitation, the neighborhoods kept a strong architectural grid that's still in place today. And now their architectural gems, parks, water ways are being polished like a diamond being brought back to life.

I can't even imagine the city of Detroit if "Detroit flight" never would have happened. It's that hard. I try to picture all of the city bustling with trolleys, cable cars, stores, shops, boutiques along livernois, Grand River, Michigan Ave., Fort Street, Gratiot etc. With a huge retail scene downtown. Beautiful bungalow's with shiny cars in their driveways, manicured lawns etc. I always wonder. It's really sad because Detroit will NEVER experience the possibility of what it could have been and what it should be. Detroit is a very tragic story.

[Gistok]

^ Illwill, picture this in your view of Detroit if "Detroit flight" would never have happened....

Orchestra Hall would have ended up a pizza store in a bustling midtown... the Detroit Fox, State/Fillmore, and Detroit Opera Houses would all have been pounded to rubble back in the 1960s [[the worst time for old movie palaces)... all because the land they were on would have been worth more as a tear down for office building or apartment tower rather than a struggling theatre showing Kung Fu and Exploitation flicks. Such is the case of NYC, Chicago, Philadelphia, Baltimore and Cincinnati [[especially the last 3 where not a single downtown former movie palace exists today)... where the best theatres were lost in the city center areas.

This is just one example of many, where had land values remained high... many entire city blocks would have been flattened for a modern structure.

Granted the neighborhoods would have fared better...

[wolverine]

Bring your cash, and you could have bought it. You didn't.

Otherwise, stop infringing on the rights of others.

The owners are doing with it as they see fit. That remains allowable behavior in the US. Its a civil right.

Depends. Technically the city could step in if they choose and make it the PUBLIC'S decision to see what's fit.

If a building is a hazard to public health and safety, it's a public nuisance and can be seized by the municipality with proper notice, but zero compensation to the building owners.

Wesley Mouch, if you were to purchase an abandoned property and I lived down the street from you, I'd expect you to maintain it and see that it be properly secured. If you fail to do so. I can document these problems and send them to the city, stating your property a nuisance. After you have been notified, or the city attempts to notify you of violations and possible seizure of your property, you'll either act or keep the property in the condition that it is. If you fail to act, I will see your property taken by the city or transferred to the state where we likely see it demolished.

So yeah, you don't exactly have liberties to do whatever....

The only reason why this building has stood in this condition this long is because the city lacks the resources to do anything.

[jerrytimes]

[QUOTE=casscorridor;324298]Moratorium on all Downtown demolitions now!

No more empty lots![/QUOTE}Just empty buildings that are in disrepair!

[Goose]

SPECULATING??? for 30 years? he's owned the building and I assumed has paid SOME taxes, purchase price, some minimal insurance, and now wants to tear the building down for the windfall of $20 a spot parking for some Tiger games??? thats great speculating? what a return on investment, only 30 years in the making.....

highly doubt he's "speculating", he's probably just trying to recoup 10% of his investment somehow.... and stop the money flow out...

speculating... thats a hoot!!!!

[cramerro]

SPECULATING??? for 30 years? he's owned the building and I assumed has paid SOME taxes, purchase price, some minimal insurance, and now wants to tear the building down for the windfall of $20 a spot parking for some Tiger games??? thats great speculating? what a return on investment, only 30 years in the making.....

highly doubt he's "speculating", he's probably just trying to recoup 10% of his investment somehow.... and stop the money flow out...

speculating... thats a hoot!!!!

I'll take that one step further and say this is no longer about recouping any of his investment, it is cutting his losses and liabilities. Ever since the pictures of that car with bricks smashed through it came up, and they have to pay to fence off the street, and pay to stabilize the whole GD thing, at this point he either needs to rehab it or tear it down. As it stands now he is likely to get more and more tickets, leins, and potentially major lawsuits from those injured by falling facade.

The fact that he could get a few bucks parking is probably not a major factor in this decision... especially since the footprint is really not that large.

[Richard]

I'll take that one step further and say this is no longer about recouping any of his investment, it is cutting his losses and liabilities. Ever since the pictures of that car with bricks smashed through it came up, and they have to pay to fence off the street, and pay to stabilize the whole GD thing, at this point he either needs to rehab it or tear it down. As it stands now he is likely to get more and more tickets, leins, and potentially major lawsuits from those injured by falling facade.

The fact that he could get a few bucks parking is probably not a major factor in this decision... especially since the footprint is really not that large.

And why are his only two options are to rehab or tear it down?

He can maybe sell it for what it is currently worth.
He can take a write off and donate it.
He can sell it on a land contract to somebody that has the funds to fix it and the pay off is when it is complete and refinanced.
He can sell it for a dollar down and a dollar a month with a five year balloon.

He has many options other then the standred I am not making millions on it so nobody else is going to.

[ghettopalmetto]

And why are his only two options are to rehab or tear it down?

He can maybe sell it for what it is currently worth.
He can take a write off and donate it.
He can sell it on a land contract to somebody that has the funds to fix it and the pay off is when it is complete and refinanced.
He can sell it for a dollar down and a dollar a month with a five year balloon.

He has many options other then the standred I am not making millions on it so nobody else is going to.

The options are limited because the City of Detroit and DEGC give away free no-strings-attached money for building demolitions. Even if you're a billionaire.

THAT, in my mind, is why the owner has no interest whatsoever in turning it into a revenue-generating property. It's a hell of a lot easier to sit on your ass and take free money than it is to rehabilitate an aging structure.

[Richard]

The options are limited because the City of Detroit and DEGC give away free no-strings-attached money for building demolitions. Even if you're a billionaire.

THAT, in my mind, is why the owner has no interest whatsoever in turning it into a revenue-generating property. It's a hell of a lot easier to sit on your ass and take free money than it is to rehabilitate an aging structure.

Those were Fed funds allocated for residential demolitions geared at neighborhood stabilization. Not for commercial buildings like the Ford for instance.

[Rocko]

Those were Fed funds allocated for residential demolitions geared at neighborhood stabilization. Not for commercial buildings like the Ford for instance.

It's true. Originally, the city was going to use federal funds to demolish the Ford Auditorium. The State Historic Preservation Office cited the demo as an adverse effect, based on its history and architectural style, and as part of the larger civic center site plan, and everything stopped. Then the city magically found another source of the money [[non-federal), and now the building is gone. Any federal funding allocated to a building, construction or demolition project will have the project reviewed by the SHPO. As the Charlevoix is a contributing structure in the GCP historic district, the demo would be an adverse effect and that would stop. Is GCP also a local historic district? If so, the Historic Designation Advisory Board would also be able to cut in.

At 5:30 p.m. Wednesday, the City Historic

Commission

will hold a public hearing at the Coleman A. Young Municipal Center that could approve the proposed demolition.

From The Detroit News: http://www.detroitnews.com/article/2...#ixzz1xaq0WUAT

Is anyone planning to attend? Speak up for the building? Speak against slumlords?

[cramerro]

And why are his only two options are to rehab or tear it down?

He can maybe sell it for what it is currently worth.
He can take a write off and donate it.
He can sell it on a land contract to somebody that has the funds to fix it and the pay off is when it is complete and refinanced.
He can sell it for a dollar down and a dollar a month with a five year balloon.

He has many options other then the standred I am not making millions on it so nobody else is going to.

I stated my reasons. If he sells it, there is no way he gets anything of substance for it, and in the mean time he lost years of holding costs... he literally would have nothing to show for it.

Everything else on your list goes right back to my original statement. The building cannot stand how it is now without tickets, court dates, and potentially huge liability from lawsuits. I don't think this is about making a buck [[land contract, etc) or not... it can't stay how it is. That leaves 1. rehab 2. demolish or now 3. walk away [[or sell for a pittence). Option 2 is most heavily subsidized by DEGC and DDA.

[Goose]

And why are his only two options are to rehab or tear it down?

He can maybe sell it for what it is currently worth.
He can take a write off and donate it.
He can sell it on a land contract to somebody that has the funds to fix it and the pay off is when it is complete and refinanced.
He can sell it for a dollar down and a dollar a month with a five year balloon.

He has many options other then the standred I am not making millions on it so nobody else is going to.

because there is a long line of suckers out there with fat wallets just eagerly waiting to obtain *[[even for FREE) a giant money sucking liability.... just so they can "speculate" on it.......

please, the owner is stuck with a pile of crap that no one "wants"..... other than for emotional reasons.....

tear that schitt down

[rjlj]

The owner of this building pays about $700 per year in property taxes on this building. He is screwing the couty and Detroit.

Perfrom a property tax inquiery on this building on the Wayne County Treasurer's web site to see for yourself.

SPECULATING??? for 30 years? he's owned the building and I assumed has paid SOME taxes, purchase price, some minimal insurance, and now wants to tear the building down for the windfall of $20 a spot parking for some Tiger games??? thats great speculating? what a return on investment, only 30 years in the making.....

highly doubt he's "speculating", he's probably just trying to recoup 10% of his investment somehow.... and stop the money flow out...

speculating... thats a hoot!!!!

[ghettopalmetto]

Those were Fed funds allocated for residential demolitions geared at neighborhood stabilization. Not for commercial buildings like the Ford for instance.

Were those Federal funds for residential demolitions used to demolish the Madison-Lenox? Hudsons? Tiger Stadium? The Lafayette Building? The Motown building? The Statler? Tuller Hotel? No, they were not. But that didn't stop the City from spending millions of your dollars to create the lovely downtown moonscape.

Spin it how you want. The City and DEGC give away millions in free money for demolition, even in the midst of a budget crunch. After all, Adamo has to put food on the table somehow.

[cramerro]

Were those Federal funds for residential demolitions used to demolish the Madison-Lenox? Hudsons? Tiger Stadium? The Lafayette Building? The Motown building? The Statler? Tuller Hotel? No, they were not. But that didn't stop the City from spending millions of your dollars to create the lovely downtown moonscape.

Spin it how you want. The City and DEGC give away millions in free money for demolition, even in the midst of a budget crunch. After all, Adamo has to put food on the table somehow.

Maybe if they use explosives, or a big enough wrecking ball, they will damage the building at the corner of Park [[Park Hotel?) and tear that one down, too.

[Hypestyles]

are there any innards worth salvaging for a museum display?

[Goose]

The owner of this building pays about $700 per year in property taxes on this building. He is screwing the couty and Detroit.

Perfrom a property tax inquiery on this building on the Wayne County Treasurer's web site to see for yourself.

i still fail to see the benefit of owning this building..... its possible he "speculated" in the very distant past but now like 95% of real estate investors in Detroit, are screwed.....

do you think this building is some sort of money machine for the owner??? or that any cost to renovate would ever be realized in profit or value appreciation?

$700 or $70,000 or $7??? its all money down the tubes.....

[Richard]

i still fail to see the benefit of owning this building..... its possible he "speculated" in the very distant past but now like 95% of real estate investors in Detroit, are screwed.....

do you think this building is some sort of money machine for the owner??? or that any cost to renovate would ever be realized in profit or value appreciation?

$700 or $70,000 or $7??? its all money down the tubes.....

I do not think he was speculating,if he was he would have probably dumped it when the market was high but that is me speculating.

He has had it for 30 years? that is not speculating that is as an investment but if he did buy it on speculation then it does not matter speculation is high risk high return but you can also lose big time hence speculation so you have to be prepared to accept the losses with the potential gains.

Without running the numbers I doubt anybody can look at it and say it is not worth it or what it would take to make it worth it.

Of course the call for demolition may even be a stall tactic if your back is pushed up against the wall with the city it will take probably what 6 month's to go through the review process?Buys you some time and makes it look like your attempting to do something. But that is me speculating once again.

[canuck]

Is that what the guy is paying in taxes? 700$???

Is that because he has no revenue and can prove maintenance costs to offset his tax bill in some way?

That is a serious disincentive to investment in Detroit IMO. There should be higher costs to owning property in a downtown district especially since the land is worth more than the building in this case at this point in time.

[Richard]

I wonder if it was listed as a Renaissance zone at one time hence the low taxes ,something maybe needs to be looked into.

[rjlj]

Hotel Charlevoix

Municipality Parcel ID Property Type 01 - DETROIT 02000392. REAL Property Address 2029 PARK, 48201 Taxpayer[[s) SACHS R Tax Year Tax Interest & Fees Amt. Due Status 2007 $863.91 $723.41 $1,587.32 SUBJECT TO FORECLOSURE 2008 $861.28 $767.22 $1,628.50 SUBJECT TO FORECLOSURE 2011 $120.52 $9.64 $130.16 DELINQUENT TOTALS $1,845.71 $1,500.27 $3,345.98 TOTAL TAX AMOUNT DUE if paid on or before 6/30/2012 $3,345.98 ADDITIONAL TAXES OR ADJUSTMENTS MAY BE DUE FOR THE CURRENT YEAR. PROPERTY TAX INFORMATION IS VALID AS OF BUSINESS DAY 6/11/2012.

[Goose]

i got a different amount of taxes

[mcsdetroitfriend]

Looks like Charlevoix has a history of throwing things off its roof, this time with deadly consequences http://www.lib.wayne.edu/resources/d...o.php?vid=5_20

Also, you can see the Charlevoix [[more specifically that "Entertainment" sign blinking) in the film "Crimewave" which shows that whole Park Ave. block alive and dingy.