Home Invasion in Harper Woods

[BrushStart]

But, at least in the case of Harper Woods [[and certain other inner ring suburbs), the reason that Harper Woods is a near-slum is precisely because of proximity to Detroit.

If you look at who commits crime in Harper Woods, it's almost all Detroiters or former Detroiters. The problems in Harper Woods are because of newcomers from Detroit.

In short, the relative level of inner suburban decline is almost directly proportional to the relative level of Detroiter influx.

Now, granted, this isn't the fault of Detroiters as a whole. But there is a specific demographic of ghetto folks in Detroit who, when they move into another jurisdiction, tend to bring the new jurisdiction down to their level.[/LEFT]

Is it just me, or is your prejudice growing with time?

The majority of the people who live in this region were "former Detroiters" at one time. The reason Harper Woods is becoming a "near slum" is because it is failing as a municipality. Right next door, the Grosse Pointes are the definition of anti-slum.

The amount of BS you spew on this board is unmeasurable. So much so, that you provoke the majority of my posts. I don't even know how to respond to your theory about the "Detroiter influx" effect. When people left Detroit to populate your beloved Oakland County, you rode that horse all the way calling it progress. Now, you have suggested that Harper Woods is in decline because of the Detroiter influx. Listen up, kid, Harper Woods doesn't exist without a "Detroiter influx" and neither does the vast majority of present-day Oakland County. If Detroiters bring other jurisdictions to their level, then you should find most of Oakland County unappealing seeing as it was created predominately by former Detroiters. Nobody appreciates the "ghetto mentality" that is pervasive in both Detroit and its suburbs, but what happens in the 'burbs, the 'burbs must own. It's just as much their problem as it is Detroit's, and the sooner they get off their F'ing high horse and start giving a shit, the sooner we can make some necessary changes.

[Bham1982]

Is it just me, or is your prejudice growing with time?

I don't care if you think I'm prejudicial.

I believe that there is a strong correlation between inner-suburban decline and inmigration by ghetto folks from Detroit. If you think this isn't the case, then be my guest.

Can you think of an inner suburb receiving poor Detroiters from the slums and not declining? Are you suggesting that's it's simply correlation and not [[at least partial) causation?

[corktownyuppie]

I don't care if you think I'm prejudicial.

I believe that there is a strong correlation between inner-suburban decline and inmigration by ghetto folks from Detroit. If you think this isn't the case, then be my guest.

Can you think of an inner suburb receiving poor Detroiters from the slums and not declining? Are you suggesting that's it's simply correlation and not [[at least partial) causation?

I'm inclined agree with Bham. In an attempt to not judge the innocent as guilty, we're also failing to point the blame where it belongs.

I've been a Detroiter for almost all my life. The problems facing these inner ring suburbs are the same problems that we've faced, too. They are not coming from poor municipal management. They are not coming from poor decision-making in Lansing. [[Though, admittedly, decision making in Lansing has not exactly helped our cause, either.)

It comes from an element in our society that is more destructive than constructive. Many of them are young, black, males. Some of them aren't. Almost all of them are poor. Few aren't.

Now it's silly to blame Detroit for this problem, just as it's silly to blame Qatar for something an Egyptian national did while in Syria. But it's also silly for everyone -- including Detroiters -- to say, "Well, it's not my fault."

Let's be real. Most of these problems are coming out of Detroit. Let's also say that most of these problems aren't the "fault" of "Detroiters". And lastly, let's quit pointing finger about whose fault it is and start working on how we can put a dent in this problem going forward.

[antongast]

I don't care if you think I'm prejudicial.

I believe that there is a strong correlation between inner-suburban decline and inmigration by ghetto folks from Detroit. If you think this isn't the case, then be my guest.

Can you think of an inner suburb receiving poor Detroiters from the slums and not declining? Are you suggesting that's it's simply correlation and not [[at least partial) causation?

I think the causation, broadly speaking, runs the other way. An influx of poorer residents is more a symptom of decline than a primary cause. If the place weren't declining to begin with, poorer people would largely be priced out.

[EASTSIDE CAT 67-83]

I think the causation, broadly speaking, runs the other way. An influx of poorer residents is more a symptom of decline than a primary cause. If the place weren't declining to begin with, poorer people would largely be priced out.

Antonganst
Great point, and explains why Grosse Pointe remains largely unaffected compared to Harper Woods which has a pretty standard bill of fair when it comes to housing stock and affordability to newcomers.

[BrushStart]

I don't care if you think I'm prejudicial.

I believe that there is a strong correlation between inner-suburban decline and inmigration by ghetto folks from Detroit. If you think this isn't the case, then be my guest.

Can you think of an inner suburb receiving poor Detroiters from the slums and not declining? Are you suggesting that's it's simply correlation and not [[at least partial) causation?

The causation is far removed from the geographical boundaries of Detroit. In fact, it's even far removed from Metro Detroit. Most of the people we are talking about here are the descendants of poor migrants who came from the south. Before that, they were slaves, and before that, they were living on a different continent.

I suppose your logic is that the City of Detroit is the causation for the poor slum people invading Oakland County, and that after they destroy Harper Woods, they will go and put St. Claire Shores into decline. The reality is, the scope of the problem is far greater and goes back much farther than anyone cares to admit. So, I personally don't give a shit about the imaginary border between Detroit and Harper Woods or any of the other suburbs. Clearly, you are too myopic to make the distinction, but the 'burbs need to realize that they are not living in a bubble immune from the great problems affecting the region.

People are either going to admit the truth, which is that Metro Detroit needs a comprehensive, multi-faceted plan to deal with its decline, or slowly but surely, the entire region is going to turn into a slum- and it has very little to do with geography and city borders. So, while I say that Harper Woods must own what happens in Harper Woods, we must all own what happens in this region and even beyond it if anything is ever going to change.

[Goose]

I suppose your logic is that the City of Detroit is the causation for the poor slum people invading Oakland County, and that after they destroy Harper Woods, they will go and put St. Claire Shores into decline. .

Southlake high school in SCS is gone... they are in the bottom 5% of schools in the State and have been placed on double secret probation.... SCS is already on the downfall.... Grosse Pointe is declining also.... GPN is becoming a gang cesspool with low test scores and rampant drug problems.....

[Wheels]

double secret probation....

What????????

[Gannon]

What????????

You apparently didn't see Animal House...

[Wheels]

You apparently didn't see Animal House...

Got me snoozin!

[EASTSIDE CAT 67-83]

It's just as much their problem as it is Detroit's, and the sooner they get off their F'ing high horse and start giving a shit, the sooner we can make some necessary changes.

BrushStart
I agree its their problem but If you don't mind...could you please define or list some of these changes you refer to that will "fix" or "remedy" the problem [[increase in crime) the inner Burbs are experiencing? IMHO, I think there is some truth to the direct correlation of the rise in crime and the influx of Ex-Detroit residents into the area. Its true the Burbs were initially populated by those who took flight from Detroit proper adding to the original population of farmers and city outliers. But when the majority of the white flight was over, the only folks left to move into the inner ring Burbs from Detroit were a percentage of the 88% AA population, am I wrong or misguided in my thinking?

[TKshreve]

BrushStart
I agree its their problem but If you don't mind...could you please define or list some of these changes you refer to that will "fix" or "remedy" the problem [[increase in crime) the inner Burbs are experiencing?

Someone said "let's be real" earlier in the thread and I thought I would offer up some of that.

I'll start on a national scale. The country [[and capitalism) robbed our state of a a ton of manufacturing. It pushed a lot of people into poverty, and they didn't have many other options. Personally, this is where the rubber meets the road imo. We can do all we want regionally, but until our country makes a concerted effort to bring those jobs back, we'll continue to spin our wheels. The unfortunate part remains, most of this control is outside of our hands. Out monetarily elected officials are the ones to handle this situation.

Moving down to a regional scope, I think a few things stand out. First, people need to stop having babies who can not afford them. More so, our gov't needs to stop rewarding those who do. You can't continue to grow the population, but shrink the job base. Ont op of that, it strains our resources. More and more kids are growing up in homes without fathers, or without mothers who try to make their children care about society and contributing. And the cycle becomes more rapid every generation. These children who have no want for an education of any means [[nor is the one offered of any prestigious value) are obviously steered towards the easiest form of getting by; Crime.

If we could reappoint these "children of misfortune" into a society where they could find benefit in education and be given the ability to develop morals and ethic it would do two very important things. It would create disincentive for people to keep kicking out children, and it would also give those children a chance at being someone productive in society.

But that is very aggressive, and trying to pass a law that allowed the government to start taking children away from their mothers on a grander scale would be hard pressed to find its way through the courts.

On another side note, if we could somehow guarantee that all money allocated by the city, state and Fed makes its way to its appointed purpose [[and not past a gauntlet of greedy nets) it would go a long way to aiding those it was designed to aid. It just seems like anybody we put into the position of watchdog seems to give in to the greed. Way too much backscratching and backroom deals.