City Council to Ask Mayor Bing to Remove New Apple Orchards from Palmer Park!

**hamtown mike** · June-01-12, 10:25 AM

Originally Posted by De'troiter

I've just rode through there on my usual route home and I agree with the residents that this isn't a good spot. The idea is great but the location does not fit in with the neighborhood.

Or does the neighborhood not fit the park? Again the needs of a few trumping the greater good.

**Gannon** · June-01-12, 10:30 AM

Yeah, we should probably just move the houses.

**pkbroch** · June-01-12, 10:42 AM

Originally Posted by SWMAP

Channel 4 identifies the nearest homeowner as James Thrower, who is on lookup, the vice chair of the new DWS authority, having been appointed to that Board as a city appointee & rep. He owns several McDonald's franchises and is a hall of famer fir his university. He is from Texas.

The nearest house, right next door, is the Gray brick Cape Cod style home at 17490 Ponchartrain, it is not owned by Mr. Thrower. Both Mr. Thrower and Mr. Sabree live across the street and to the south,in the 17401 area.

Homes on The west side of Ponchartrain, Hamilton Road, Fairway Drive, and the area of Six Mile and Seven Mile are in the Detroit Golf Club Homeowners Assoc. area. They are usually good with communication to residents.

Hope everyone can work it out.

**Bham1982** · June-01-12, 10:56 AM

Originally Posted by Meddle

Does anyone have pictures of the area before and now?

Is there a reason this spot was selected instead of any of the other vacant land around town, or maybe even the State Fair site?

This was my first thought. Why would they choose to plant these trees across from the wealthiest streets in the city, without even consulting the homeowners on those streets?

IMO, the homeowners have a point, even if the volunteers are probably doing a positive thing. It isn't unreasonable to ask the neighbors if you're making dramatic changes to their "back yards".

And I think the proposed subtexts "it must be they don't like whites, or don't want to see agriculture" are weird. Why would you assume such things? Maybe they just want to be consulted before such dramatic changes.

**ragnarok1981** · June-01-12, 11:22 AM

Joann Watson once again proved her thinly vailed racist and paranoid views about life here in Detroit. She refers to the People for Palmer Park as a bunch of people who just moved back to the city, AKA white people. If you watch the video http://apps.attainresponse.com/ComF5....htm?id=346804 and skip to about 35 minutes into it, she is fawning over the few people who came to complain about the orchard. I have watched her time and time again make arguments about "us vs them" and we all know what she is hinting at but at least has the common sense not to say it outright.
The main complaint by the council is that proper procedure was not followed. So to me that is saying that the council is in a huff because they got left out of the decision making process. I don't hold the People for Palmer Park at fault because it seems to me that they did what they believed was the proper course of action by going to the Parks and Recreation Department and asking for approval. That department approved what they were doing and I assume they did not inform the group that council consent was needed as well. Then there is the fact that no other council member puts her in check by saying that her language is wrong and needs to stop attacking the "outsiders". I am a member of the People for Palmer Park and I can say for a fact that I have lived in the city my whole life and I am not some recent import to the city. I for one would like her to appologize.

**pkbroch** · June-01-12, 11:49 AM

Originally Posted by ragnarok1981

Joann Watson once again proved her thinly vailed racist and paranoid views about life here in Detroit. She refers to the People for Palmer Park as a bunch of people who just moved back to the city, AKA white people. If you watch the video http://apps.attainresponse.com/ComF5....htm?id=346804 and skip to about 35 minutes into it, she is fawning over the few people who came to complain about the orchard. I have watched her time and time again make arguments about "us vs them" and we all know what she is hinting at but at least has the common sense not to say it outright.
The main complaint by the council is that proper procedure was not followed. So to me that is saying that the council is in a huff because they got left out of the decision making process. I don't hold the People for Palmer Park at fault because it seems to me that they did what they believed was the proper course of action by going to the Parks and Recreation Department and asking for approval. That department approved what they were doing and I assume they did not inform the group that council consent was needed as well. Then there is the fact that no other council member puts her in check by saying that her language is wrong and needs to stop attacking the "outsiders". I am a member of the People for Palmer Park and I can say for a fact that I have lived in the city my whole life and I am not some recent import to the city. I for one would like her to appologize.

I have lived in Detroit 60 years, was born here as were my parents and Grandparents and am so tired of this retoric, and the insinuation that I am somehow not a real Detroiter.

Enough of this garbage talk from Watson. Doesn't the council have better things to do ???

**stromberg2** · June-01-12, 02:08 PM

Originally Posted by ronaldj

I remember being involved in the Fox Creek berm tree planting. One neighbor was pissed off that they might have to rake some leaves. That was a 10 yr investment involving grants, volunteers and community. Everyone was informed and anyone not in the loop was brain dead in my minds eye.

I welcome all who try to make a difference. Not every thing works out perfect but I certainly honor folk who pitch in.

Also curious how race got involved in this issue?

Ron, Sadly race seems to always rear it's ugly head.

Stromberg2

**poobert** · June-01-12, 09:50 PM

Originally Posted by ragnarok1981

Joann Watson once again proved her thinly vailed racist and paranoid views about life here in Detroit. She refers to the People for Palmer Park as a bunch of people who just moved back to the city, AKA white people. If you watch the video http://apps.attainresponse.com/ComF5....htm?id=346804 and skip to about 35 minutes into it, she is fawning over the few people who came to complain about the orchard. I have watched her time and time again make arguments about "us vs them" and we all know what she is hinting at but at least has the common sense not to say it outright.
The main complaint by the council is that proper procedure was not followed. So to me that is saying that the council is in a huff because they got left out of the decision making process. I don't hold the People for Palmer Park at fault because it seems to me that they did what they believed was the proper course of action by going to the Parks and Recreation Department and asking for approval. That department approved what they were doing and I assume they did not inform the group that council consent was needed as well. Then there is the fact that no other council member puts her in check by saying that her language is wrong and needs to stop attacking the "outsiders". I am a member of the People for Palmer Park and I can say for a fact that I have lived in the city my whole life and I am not some recent import to the city. I for one would like her to appologize.

In today's Free Press she screamed about how Council needed to approve this project. The Departments even seemed miffed by this. Correct me if I'm wrong, but under our strong mayor governance, isn't the Council's raison d'etre to approve the budget? Since when do they have to approve every flower planted? Isn't that what Department heads are for? [[like the department head who approved this?)

JoAnn Watson acts no better than a cornered rat. At every movement she reacts violently and rabidly. I really don't even give her the credit of the race or outsider issues. Many of us have pointed out that PPP is made up of lifelong Detroiters in large part. As with this "Council approval" crap, for her it is all about power. Maybe she was a decent person at some point in her life, but now her only apparent motivation is preserving her own power.

I guess squeaking in last in the last council race for a position that pays something to the tune of 83k a year and paying sixty odd dollars per year taxes on a Tudor mansion for a while all must have its appeal. My life is much less lofty than that [[despite being the white devil) but I like to think I wouldn't compromise myself as much as she does to preserve that lifestyle. My inside sources say she won't run again this next election. If she does, well, the bigger they are, the harder they fall.

**compn** · June-01-12, 10:28 PM

Originally Posted by De'troiter

The trees also create a hideout for criminals that did not exist before their planting.

http://articles.baltimoresun.com/201...-ins-criminals

"Just a 10 percent increase in leaf canopy was associated with a 12 percent drop in crime, it concluded."

http://actrees.org/site/resources/re...less_crime.php
"There were dramatically fewer occurrences of crime against both people and property in apartment buildings surrounded by trees and greenery than in nearby identical apartments that were surrounded by barren land."

so trees are good, but having shrubery that obscures doors/windows lets criminals break in without being seen.

**Danny** · June-02-12, 09:49 AM

Mayor Bing on the removal of Apple Orchard's in Palmer Park.

"NEVER! If the people of Detroit needs urban farming, it starts with apples before oranges. I don't have time to remove trees!"

**trotwood** · June-02-12, 01:15 PM

"City Council to Ask Mayor Bing to Remove New Apple Orchards from Palmer Park!"

Another brilliant insightful move by the illustrious City Council.
Bravo!Bravo!

Occurrence · June-02-12, 03:56 PM

There are impoverished people in this city who can't even afford to eat, and some of these people's main concern is apple trees planted in a park down the street from their houses?

Life must be so rough.

**jtf1972** · June-02-12, 03:58 PM

Originally Posted by compn

...so trees are good, but having shrubery that obscures doors/windows lets criminals break in without being seen.

The trees are not close enough to the residences to obscure windows.

The only issue I personally had with them, when planting... they are laid out like an actual orchard: in rows. I would have preferred them to seem more natural. With a nice, meandering path through them. But I also understand the budget was nil.

The argument regarding crime was about them providing cover for an escaping criminal. I agree that is a concern, but with the proximity to a park full of trees that is a concern in itself. Let's police the park and properly light it.

**poobert** · June-03-12, 12:44 AM

Originally Posted by Occurrence

There are impoverished people in this city who can't even afford to eat, and some of these people's main concern is apple trees planted in a park down the street from their houses?

Life must be so rough.

At the same time, these folks, who are paying obscene taxes and thus keeping Detroit alive, could easily pack up and move, in a New York Minute, to Grosse Pointe or Huntington Woods or whatever, like every other asshole and their mother. Well, they haven't, and they deserve to be heard.

You may knock it, but it isn't easy being a middle class Detroiter. I as well could easily run for the border but while I believe this City is worth fighting for I also have rights that are worth fighting for.

GUSHI · June-03-12, 07:42 AM

Detroit is just a fukd up city, shooting over kool aid, fire stations are junk, Now people fighting over fukn trees,

If ms Watson, don't like white folk moving into the city, she can move out, it's not her city, I guarantee you a lot of the white folk that moving into the city, there ancestor lived in the city a lot longer , than ms Watson ancestors,

So since I was born in Detroit, moved to the burbs and if I decide to move back to detroit, my vote doesn't count cuz in ms Watson mind I'm new, she's a dumb bitch, and she can kiss my white ass.

**Gannon** · June-03-12, 07:55 AM

Originally Posted by GUSHI

So since I was born in Detroit, moved to the burbs and if I decide to move back to detroit, my vote doesn't count cuz in ms Watson mind I'm new, she's a dumb bitch, and she can kiss my white ass.

I won't let her anywhere NEAR my ass, but she could get the chance to fondle my birth certificate.

Do we need to present our credentials and family history before being considered for the privilege of telling her to shut the fuck up?!

I'll start carrying mine around then...

Cheers,
John

**diggindetroit** · June-04-12, 08:29 AM

Originally Posted by Detroitgayhistoryguy

Joann Watson said it was "Disrespecting the city" and she didn't know about it until after it was planted? I'm not on clowncil, and I don't have a full time research staff and I knew about it. What does she and her "staff" do all day? They say this is about "rodents" BS! This is about whitey doing something in "their" city and they don't like it.

in her defence, JoAnn is as dumb as a bag full of rodent gnawed apples.

**ragnarok1981** · June-05-12, 01:58 PM

Now I know that if the PFPP wants to get this taken care of they need to go about things in a polite and political way. But with that being said I still think they need to offer Joann Watson a feed bag full of apples she can just strap on and chow down. Look at a picture of her from when she took office and how she looks now and it is scary. I don't know what it is about the Detroit city council, but so far every woman who gets on it balloons out. In fact I think that may be the source of our budget problems, all that money is going to feed the council.
While I am on the topic of Watson, let me just say that the City Council despite being full of morons, is a professional organization and in my opinion its members should dress accordingly. She and Kenyatta need to wear business attire. Wearing a moomoo or Dashiki is just not acceptable in the business world and it should not be acceptable here, and that goes for Kenyattas 1970's jumpsuits or whatever they are called. The man looks like he stepped out of a time machine and does not know what year it is.

**antongast** · June-05-12, 04:59 PM

Originally Posted by ragnarok1981

Now I know that if the PFPP wants to get this taken care of they need to go about things in a polite and political way. But with that being said I still think they need to offer Joann Watson a feed bag full of apples she can just strap on and chow down. Look at a picture of her from when she took office and how she looks now and it is scary. I don't know what it is about the Detroit city council, but so far every woman who gets on it balloons out. In fact I think that may be the source of our budget problems, all that money is going to feed the council.
While I am on the topic of Watson, let me just say that the City Council despite being full of morons, is a professional organization and in my opinion its members should dress accordingly. She and Kenyatta need to wear business attire. Wearing a moomoo or Dashiki is just not acceptable in the business world and it should not be acceptable here, and that goes for Kenyattas 1970's jumpsuits or whatever they are called. The man looks like he stepped out of a time machine and does not know what year it is.

If they're getting the job done, I don't care what they look like. If they aren't getting the job done, let's criticize them for that.

**jtf1972** · June-05-12, 05:10 PM

Originally Posted by antongast

If they're getting the job done, I don't care what they look like. If they aren't getting the job done, let's criticize them for that.

Exactly.

Criticize when and where applicable. When you go a step beyond, creating animal imagery, criticizing wardrobe or weight you lose your own credibility. It wasn't that long ago we had a council member who seemed to thing referring to the council president [[and then mayor) by the name of a cartoon character. Thank God he was an adult about things and kept his cool.

**ragnarok1981** · June-06-12, 10:19 AM

Actually I think commenting about the weight of the council members is a valid argument. In a city where the obesity problem is out of control I think the council members should set an example and lose weight like council president Pugh did [[one of the few things I can say that are good about the man). When we have had council members who were bribed with sausage I think we can say that there is a problem.

**SWMAP** · June-06-12, 10:51 AM

Excellent retort! And by the way, it has long been discussed in downtown circles that the enthusiasm of several council members can be had by virtue of taking them to dinner in a fine restaurant.

**Pam** · June-06-12, 01:12 PM

Maybe the Park group can invite Councilwoman Watson to join in some of the fitness activities at the park:

http://peopleforpalmerpark.org/calendar/

**jtf1972** · June-06-12, 01:32 PM

Bringing up the girth of a council member may be appropriate as a topic in itself, but when attempting to argue a point you lose your credibility.

#1: "I think this should be done because it would be great"

#2: "I don't think so."

#1: "Yeah, well... you're fat. You fatty fat fathead!"

Was anything accomplished between #1 & #2? Yes... just that #2 will never take anything #1 says, and now #2 has a reason to reject it other than whether it is viable or not. The focus is removed from the problem.

**Cooper** · June-06-12, 01:32 PM

Originally Posted by ragnarok1981

Now I know that if the PFPP wants to get this taken care of they need to go about things in a polite and political way. But with that being said I still think they need to offer Joann Watson a feed bag full of apples she can just strap on and chow down. Look at a picture of her from when she took office and how she looks now and it is scary. I don't know what it is about the Detroit city council, but so far every woman who gets on it balloons out. In fact I think that may be the source of our budget problems, all that money is going to feed the council.
While I am on the topic of Watson, let me just say that the City Council despite being full of morons, is a professional organization and in my opinion its members should dress accordingly. She and Kenyatta need to wear business attire. Wearing a moomoo or Dashiki is just not acceptable in the business world and it should not be acceptable here, and that goes for Kenyattas 1970's jumpsuits or whatever they are called. The man looks like he stepped out of a time machine and does not know what year it is.

I know this board gets heated sometimes, but I really don't think these kind of ugly personal attacks belong in a public forum. There are plenty of reasons to criticize council members on merit without ridiculing their appearance.