Belle [[?) Isle...

[jt1]

Petition for a percentage of Detroit dollars sent to HCMA and divert it to a conservatory to support BI. Problem solved.

Granted, I'd be saddened that HCMA may not be able to build another water slide 30 miles from the city but I could get over that.

[SWMAP]

Isn't there already a nice water slide on the eastside in Chandler Park, courtesy of Wayne County?

[MidTownMs]

I'm with the OP on this. Belle Isle needs to change in order to become the state-wide attraction that it deserves to be. The riverfront has gotten much better in the last 10 years. I will say that in 5-10 years Belle Isle will be in significantly better shape.

Belle Isle doesn't need to change....the people who go over there and treat Belle Isle like a garbage jump need to change.

[jt1]

Isn't there already a nice water slide on the eastside in Chandler Park, courtesy of Wayne County?

It has been courtesy of the city of Detroit. I believe Wayne County either recently has or intends to take over maintenance of the park. Until now, as Detroiters we were paying for our own water slide and HCMA's.

I'd be curious what other parks in the city that WC maintains or supports. Since Detroiter pay taxes for Detroit Park and Rec, WC parks and HCMA I suspect that we are net donors to the 'regional' park system.

I'd be happy is somone proved me wrong but I just don't see that being the case.

I think the key to diverting WC or HCMA funds to BI is to have it managed by a conservancy, not the city.

[corktownyuppie]

And, yes, that's a significant disincentive to poor folks wanting to picnic.

It's a disincentive to folks wanting to picnic there. They could theoretically picnic at Balduck or any of the other free parks. I'm not necessarily disagreeing with what your saying, I just want to emphasize that the unspoken presumption is that the poorest of us deserve to have access to one of the nicest parks in SE Michigan -- and that if doing so means that 90% of the population no longer finds the place attractive, then that's a sacrifice you're willing to make.

Assuming that you're making that argument, I guess the question is, "Why?" Whether I look at this from a utilitarian or a contractual stance, my conclusion is the same. By what process do you come to the conclusion that the happiness of the many is outweighed by the happiness of the few?

[jt1]

Just an FYI on the mills paid for parks by Detroiters [[or property owners in Detroit):

WC Parks: .2459
HCMA: .2146
Detroit parks and rec: [[Part of general oporating - I will estimate it later)

[oldexmack]

Put police on patrol and arrest literers who go to court and not only pay a fine but must spend a minimum of 8 hours cleaning up the park. The city could also use the people who are in Jail to work cleaning up the park and applying that time to their sentence. They could have ankle bracelets to control them from escaping. Only non violent prisoners would qualify.

[SWMAP]

"It has been courtesy of the city of Detroit. I believe Wayne County either recently has or intends to take over maintenance of the park."

You have it wrong. WC built that water park and promotes it as "theirs' on the Wayne County web site.

[jt1]

Put police on patrol and arrest literers who go to court and not only pay a fine but must spend a minimum of 8 hours cleaning up the park. The city could also use the people who are in Jail to work cleaning up the park and applying that time to their sentence. They could have ankle bracelets to control them from escaping. Only non violent prisoners would qualify.

I like it but it would, I believe, have to be a sentence from the courts. We all know how lenient the courts can be.

[jt1]

"It has been courtesy of the city of Detroit. I believe Wayne County either recently has or intends to take over maintenance of the park."

You have it wrong. WC built that water park and promotes it as "theirs' on the Wayne County web site.

You are correct. WC was talking about closing it down but opted not to. Thanks for the correction.

[detroitsgwenivere]

Wow, relax agresso. I was commenting on the stark difference between the Riverwalk and Belle Isle, two miles down the road. The riverwalk was spotless for the most part. There are laws on the books against littering last time I checked, perhaps they should be enforced a bit better, don't you think? I have no empathy for pigs that have zero respect for themselves or their surroundings, like my daddy said; Ya don't shit in your own mess kit. Apparently though, there are people that are okay with it the way it is.

Sigh...


I never condoned the actions of litterers. I merely pointed out [[albeit exacerbatedly) that there are several other threads regarding the issue of belle isle, its trash problem, and its proposed remedies. Let ME be redundant when I tell you AGAIN that I wasn't really referring to you, and if anything was giving you the benefit of the doubt considering your apparent lack of understanding as to how this site keeps threads from "fraying."

And as far as being aggressive is concerned, funny how this is coming from someone who calls me names and keeps trying to bait me. You should get used to the fact that not everyone on this site will write like you.

And to answer your question, yeah, laws regarding littering should be enforced. But as someone who actually lives here, I think dealing with the 33 shootings and 8 murders that have occurred in the last 5 days is just a tad more pressing of a priority.

Maybe if some of us could have a little patience, the state will get around to implementing its state park imperatives via the DNR, as was already decreed by the signing of the consent agreement.

And thank you to the folks who ghost these halls that volunteer their time and resources to picking up the scurvy at belle isle. Next time I visit there, ill be sure to grab a bag and do my part to help keep up after the effin lames as well.

[One Shot]

It's a mentality that will never change. There are good and bad in all colors. In this case its a majority of the "minority" that do that littering. Majority forms opinions.

[drjeff]

After reading this thread yesterday, I decided to take a cruise around Belle Isle after work. It was actually really clean. I didn't see any overflowing trash cans or piles of trash anywhere and only a few random bits that had gotten blown around from somewhere. Everyone I saw there seemed to be enjoying themselves. There was a pretty substantial police presence.

Maybe it's worse on a Monday morning but on a Tuesday evening it was wonderful.

[corktownyuppie]

After reading this thread yesterday, I decided to take a cruise around Belle Isle after work. It was actually really clean. I didn't see any overflowing trash cans or piles of trash anywhere and only a few random bits that had gotten blown around from somewhere. Everyone I saw there seemed to be enjoying themselves. There was a pretty substantial police presence.

Maybe it's worse on a Monday morning but on a Tuesday evening it was wonderful.

That's encouraging to hear.

[MSUguy]

After reading this thread yesterday, I decided to take a cruise around Belle Isle after work. It was actually really clean. I didn't see any overflowing trash cans or piles of trash anywhere and only a few random bits that had gotten blown around from somewhere. Everyone I saw there seemed to be enjoying themselves. There was a pretty substantial police presence.

Maybe it's worse on a Monday morning but on a Tuesday evening it was wonderful.

This is pretty much the pattern at BI, it gets trashed on the weekends and then cleans up in a few days. Still, I'm mostly able to get down there on weekends, the fact it usually cleans up Tues/Wed doesn't do me much good on Sunday mornings and the place is a pig sty.

[Thames]

Maybe the problem could be solved by providing more trash cans?

[Wheels]

Put a sign on the bridge.

YOUR MOTHER DOSN'T WORK HERE
CLEAN UP YOUR OWN MESS!

It work's every time.

[GUSHI]

Charge 5 bucks a car already, the park needs revenue, to keep the place clean, I have no problem paying it, if you can't afford 5 bucks, you probaly shouldn't be able to afford a car,

[softailrider]

How odd. I go there every summer and I never noticed enough litter to remark on..

Wow.....I've found the litter to be noticeable almost every time I've been there. I usually can't believe how many freakin pigs use that park.

[hudkina]

Petition for a percentage of Detroit dollars sent to HCMA and divert it to a conservatory to support BI. Problem solved.

Granted, I'd be saddened that HCMA may not be able to build another water slide 30 miles from the city but I could get over that.

Dude, there are tons of city residents who travel to the Metroparks for picnics, family reunions, water parks, biking, etc. Why? Because they are well-maintained, clean, and safe. Don't act like Detroiters are paying for something they don't use.

And really, if someone can afford the vehicle, insurance, maintenance, and gas it requires to drive to Belle Isle, they can afford a $25 annual pass. I mean seriously! The KFC they just bought, and whose packaging they left behind, probably cost more! The people who use Belle Isle aren't that poor, and if they are, then they can take the bus or walk to the park for free...

[Gannon]

I'll go back to my best estimate of a true solution.

Station at least four to six active police cars on the bridge, with one sitting at the floral clock tagging everyone with a laser speed detector as they crest the top. Maybe even in the paddy wagon, very publicly showing the ability and willingness to detain. Driver of the van can be the laser operator, what else is he going to do?! We can have Tim Horton's deliver.

Those who speed get ticketed with the standard rigamarole. The city will collect WAY more funding from this than they will ever do by any form of admission fee...and do WAY more good filtering the 'bad element' off the island.

Everyone who comes and goes gets 'noticed' by those license plate scanners we bought with that Homeland Security funding...surely we've got a few in some of those 175 cars bought during the Kwhyme misadministration.

Then, for those ticketed for anything on the island...they have to work a cleanup detail DURING peak party hours.

Imagine having to pick up after your party friends, while supervised...wearing stripes and shackles...during the party, with everyone watching.


A whole lot would change in a very short period of time...for all the right reasons...while the bad side-effects we want to avoid, like charging poor fisherpeople and philosophers and lovers and kick-ass dog-walking newscasters and hipsters a fee for doing what they've always done, never appear.


Cheers!

[Melocoton]

I mean seriously! The KFC they just bought, and whose packaging they left behind, probably cost more

No, this isn't about race, nope, not at all.

[hudkina]

I actually had no particular race in mind when I said that, I was just referencing this quote:

I used to volunteer for the annual Belle Isle cleanup that Friends of Belle Isle sponsored. i finally quit after another volunteer and I had picked up all kinds of trash in an area only to see a big car pull away and the POS driver had set Kentucky Fried chicken boxes, etc. right on the parking lot and drove off rather than take 10 seconds and get his *ss out of the car and put the KFC trash in a trash can.

You are the racist, if you assume that only certain races eat KFC.

[corktownyuppie]

No, this isn't about race, nope, not at all.

For some people this is about race. For others it's about race, though they find ways to intellectually justify that it's not. For some of us, it's just about trash.

If you get rid of the trash problem and people are *still* making jokes about KFC [[which, btw, is delicious), then there'll be some fighting to do. Until then, it's just a distraction.

[iheartthed]

Maybe the problem could be solved by providing more trash cans?

The solution couldn't possibly be that simple. It must be cultural, socioeconomic and perhaps the result of some potion slipped into Detroit's water supply that has been diluted enough by the time it reaches outer-burb faucets so not to affect them.