Detroiters shot on a Pontiac Party Bus observing a robbery?

[jt1]

I'm feeling incredibly guilty right now. I have a 2 year old and I was out Saturday night. To make matters even worse, my wife was with me. We must be real shitbag parents to have a babysitter come over at 9 so we could get out of the house for a few hours.

Then again, 19 was 19 years ago, plus some. And we weren't in Pontiac, we went to downtown Birmingham. Since we're past the age where we want to go to the club, we just grabbed a bite to eat and caught a movie. Do I get a pass or am I irresponsible too?

I think it's pretty clear that you and your wife are terrible parents but didn't deserve to die since you were in Birmingham.

[gumby]

I'm feeling incredibly guilty right now. I have a 2 year old and I was out Saturday night. To make matters even worse, my wife was with me. We must be real shitbag parents to have a babysitter come over at 9 so we could get out of the house for a few hours.

Then again, 19 was 19 years ago, plus some. And we weren't in Pontiac, we went to downtown Birmingham. Since we're past the age where we want to go to the club, we just grabbed a bite to eat and caught a movie. Do I get a pass or am I irresponsible too?

How dare you? Don't you know that once you become a parent your life outside of that is supposed to be over. You must sit at home and watch your child non-stop and never leave the house except for work. You do not deserve a moment of rest from the extremely hard job of being a parent, in fact, hiring a babysitter should be punishable by severe beating or death.

/sarcasm

[EASTSIDE CAT 67-83]

For the shooter/s, they just lost their "human card" and need to be hunted down and dragged into court where we will most likely find a rep sheet a mile long and several previous incarcerations where they should still be in jail. The cycle of violence and lenient criminal justice system is to blame for the shooting and tragic deaths, comments as to why these folks were on the bus are reckless and judgmental, find the perps [[predatory animals) and keep them in jail this time.

[Bham1982]

Going clubbing on Sunday night is much more dangerous than any other night of the week. Ask law enforcement.

It's the toughest night for venues to fill, so it tends to be the hip hop nights [[generally considered undesirable and not worth it other nights), which tend to draw a rougher crowd. I have also heard the crowds are rougher because folks who work a 9-to-5 don't go out Sundays so it's more jobless folks.

The number of Sunday night club shootings is way disproportionate to the other nights.

That said, I don't think it's relevant. The victims were totally innocent [[if a little foolish) and the attention should be 100% focused on the assailants.

[canuck]

Sorry, I should have added the proper context. This was for 2010 which is the most recent year that the FBI has posted crime stats. Certainly a lot could change between then and now but I wanted to refute Bailey's assumption that anyone in Pontiac at 2AM deserves to get shot.

Or anywhere, but the fact it happens a lot in Detroit and some suburbs should tell you a sketchy strip joint parking lot is a great substitute for a target range.
You may not want it to be that way, but you cant be a wishful thinker when you frequent a shithole-in-the-wall. Part of the fun is in the danger I guess...

[bailey]

I think it's pretty clear that you and your wife are terrible parents but didn't deserve to die since you were in Birmingham.

I'm feeling incredibly guilty right now. I have a 2 year old and I was out Saturday night. To make matters even worse, my wife was with me. We must be real shitbag parents to have a babysitter come over at 9 so we could get out of the house for a few hours.

Then again, 19 was 19 years ago, plus some. And we weren't in Pontiac, we went to downtown Birmingham. Since we're past the age where we want to go to the club, we just grabbed a bite to eat and caught a movie. Do I get a pass or am I irresponsible too?

Ok, I'll play along. For the 5th time, it's a tragedy and the victim is not to blame, nor did she deserve it... point was, wouldnt it be nice if different decisions where made?...

but again... let's compare and contrast your snark shall we?

So, lets see, you had this two year old when you were 38..presumably married [[since you talked about your wife), presumably employed, presumably don't live at home with your parents , you state you left your kid at 9 and returned in "a few hours" [[going to assume three hours?), and while you were out you went to one of the safest areas of Michigan where you had dinner and saw a movie.

You didn't go bar hopping in Pontiac where at 2 am you ended at a strip club, in Pontiac, where- in addition to the shooting and armed robbery- a guy was stabbed multiple times eariler the same evening.

I'm curious, does having a two year old at home factor in your choices in life or do you live exactly as you did before you had your kid?

Also, if your kid had a kid at 17, are pub crawls in Pontiac on the list of things you're going to support or counsel against?

[canuck]

Ok, I'll play along. For the 5th time, it's a tragedy and the victim is not to blame, nor did she deserve it... point was, wouldnt it be nice if different decisions where made?...

but again... let's compare and contrast your snark shall we?

So, lets see, you had this two year old when you were 38..presumably married [[since you talked about your wife), presumably employed, presumably don't live at home with your parents , you state you left your kid at 9 and returned in "a few hours" [[going to assume three hours?), and while you were out you went to one of the safest areas of Michigan where you had dinner and saw a movie.

You didn't go bar hopping in Pontiac where at 2 am you ended at a strip club, in Pontiac, where- in addition to the shooting and armed robbery- a guy was stabbed multiple times eariler the same evening.

I'm curious, does having a two year old at home factor in your choices in life or do you live exactly as you did before you had your kid?

Also, if your kid had a kid at 17, are pub crawls in Pontiac on the list of things you're going to support or counsel against?

No argument with you on that one Bailey.

[bailey]

Except Bob Bashara.

Well, no... that is actually the opposite of what I just said.

I learned, from that incident specifically, as it was up close and personal, to believe NONE of the things heard from people who supposedly know the individual, do not ever give the benefit of the doubt, and just assume guilt.

[ejames01]

Ok, I'll play along. For the 5th time, it's a tragedy and the victim is not to blame, nor did she deserve it... point was, wouldnt it be nice if different decisions where made?...

but again... let's compare and contrast your snark shall we?

So, lets see, you had this two year old when you were 38..presumably married [[since you talked about your wife), presumably employed, presumably don't live at home with your parents , you state you left your kid at 9 and returned in "a few hours" [[going to assume three hours?), and while you were out you went to one of the safest areas of Michigan where you had dinner and saw a movie.

You didn't go bar hopping in Pontiac where at 2 am you ended at a strip club, in Pontiac, where- in addition to the shooting and armed robbery- a guy was stabbed multiple times eariler the same evening.

I'm curious, does having a two year old at home factor in your choices in life or do you live exactly as you did before you had your kid?

Also, if your kid had a kid at 17, are pub crawls in Pontiac on the list of things you're going to support or counsel against?

The girl wasn't in a strip club. She was in a bus waiting to be taken back downtown so she could go home. According to the latest Freep article, she was with some friends at Lucky's bar and grill and they were invited to ride on the bus. No one did anything wrong except be in the wrong place at the wrong time.

[bailey]

The girl wasn't in a strip club. She was in a bus waiting to be taken back downtown so she could go home. According to the latest Freep article, she was with some friends at Lucky's bar and grill and they were invited to ride on the bus. No one did anything wrong except be in the wrong place at the wrong time.

and that bit of symmetry brings me back to my original statement...

.... Its hard to be in the "wrong place at the wrong time" when you're home with your toddler and not out at the club, at 2 am, at 19 yrs. old.

but, you're right, they did change the story, and even maybe more since you read it..

Sylvester and a couple of girlfriends boarded the party bus at the nightclub Lucky's in downtown Detroit on Saturday, her father said. An acquaintance had rented the bus for a birthday party.

channel 4 had more....

They were riding on what’s commonly called a “party bus” to bring them safely from Detroit to the Pontiac bar scene.

The other victim had a child as well...apparently. So two kids now are missing a parent because a waste of a life wanted some cartier glasses he didnt feel he needed to pay for.

[ejames01]

So young people should never ever go out on the town to have a good time? The same thing could have happened if she was just a waitress getting off work.

[Detroitnerd]

Heaven forbid a blonde 7-year-old should disappear ... everybody would go stark-staring crazy!

[DetroitPlanner]

I think the point here is that there was a whole lot of stupid things that mashed together here. None of this stuff was right. What is the answer? The answer is don't get on a party bus going to a skanky strip club and you will avoid idiots like the shooter and the dumber guy flashing his wealth in a pair of cartier glasses.

[luckycar]

First of all,the Oakland County Sheriff Dept. patrols Pontiac.They are doing gods work.Second,a party bus that went to Porky's?What a dive.It isn't downtown,its next to the old Fisher Body Plant on Baldwin and Kennet,and a dive since it was a beer and shot place called Jack's back in the day.Third,don't blame the victims.Although 2 am in certain parts of Pontiac isn't too smart a move,we should be able to go wherever and whenever as free peoples.Hope they catch this pos.

[ddaydetroit]

Wow I will never come to Detroityes for sympathy if I am a victim of a crime what a sad thread by a few people.

[detroitsgwenivere]

Wow I will never come to Detroityes for sympathy if I am a victim of a crime what a sad thread by a few people.

Agreed. This thread, like several others as of late, has quickly devolved into a generational culture clash.

I think its time I start getting some younger people to post on this site. Ones that would be rightly offended by the insinuation that as a young parent, riding up to the front of a bikini bar on a bus means that somehow you asked to become a corpse.

It's crap like this that has me posting less and less on dyes these days.

[brizee]

Wow I will never come to Detroityes for sympathy if I am a victim of a crime what a sad thread by a few people.

It's easy, just be white and/or suburban.

The hearts will bleed and bleed.

[bailey]

Agreed. This thread, like several others as of late, has quickly devolved into a generational culture clash.

I think its time I start getting some younger people to post on this site. Ones that would be rightly offended by the insinuation that as a young parent, riding up to the front of a bikini bar on a bus means that somehow you asked to become a corpse.

It's crap like this that has me posting less and less on dyes these days.

Gimmie a fucking break. Nowhere did anyone say she "deserved to die". My original post was that it would have been nice "different decisions had been made".

I would view this situation as similar to when freedom lovin real 'mericans ride their motorcycles without a helmet....and then become permanently disabled from a closed head injury that could have been avoided by wearing a helmet.

If you go to a city to party where a person has 1 in 50 chance of being a victim of a violent crime. If you think that its fun to hang out in a city that is ranked as one of the least safest places in the country, why are we suprised when tragedy happens?

The only thing "random" about what happened was the name of the victim...not that there was going to be a violent crime that night.

This is not blaming the vicitm, it should be a teaching moment. "hey, look, no one is safe in certain areas of this region.... maybe NOT going on the bar crawl in Pontiac is the better choice to make...especially when you have a kid to think about."

[bailey]

It's easy, just be white and/or suburban.

The hearts will bleed and bleed.

True. Question is, why will there be no march, no outcry, no demands for justice for these two? Where's Al and Jessie? Heck, Kwame Kenyatta just quit council because he's disgusted with the lawlessness around here. How many times will a black teenager die over something stupid and NOTHING will happen here?

I'll tell you why, because for too many [[on both sides of 8 mile), this is just normal. Its background noise. they wring hands over it being such a tragedy....but tomorrow there will be one just as bad.

[Cincinnati_Kid]

It's just a damn shame the youth of today, can't go out anywhere to have a good time regardless of their personal background, without the fear of violence.

[Kevgoblue]

Gimmie a fucking break....

If you go to a city to party where a person has 1 in 50 chance of being a victim of a violent crime. If you think that its fun to hang out in a city that is ranked as one of the least safest places in the country, why are we suprised when tragedy happens?

This is not blaming the vicitm, it should be a teaching moment. "hey, look, no one is safe in certain areas of this region.... maybe NOT going on the bar crawl in Pontiac is the better choice to make...especially when you have a kid to think about."

But the girl lived in Detroit. It's not like she ventured from the safety of her white pickett fenced suburban community for a night of excitement in an urban hip hop enviornment.

Not sure what the year to date numbers for violent crime are, but Detroit's numbers are way beyond those of Pontiac. Based on all the headlines we've been seeing lately, going to Pontiac sounds like a better idea than going somewhere in the city.

[ejames01]

True. Question is, why will there be no march, no outcry, no demands for justice for these two? Where's Al and Jessie? Heck, Kwame Kenyatta just quit council because he's disgusted with the lawlessness around here. How many times will a black teenager die over something stupid and NOTHING will happen here?

I'll tell you why, because for too many [[on both sides of 8 mile), this is just normal. Its background noise. they wring hands over it being such a tragedy....but tomorrow there will be one just as bad.

What exactly is Al & Jessie going to do? Are the authorities not looking for the killer.

What exactly do you think is supposed to happen?

[ResurgetCineribus]

Gimmie a fucking break. Nowhere did anyone say she "deserved to die". My original post was that it would have been nice "different decisions had been made".

I would view this situation as similar to when freedom lovin real 'mericans ride their motorcycles without a helmet....and then become permanently disabled from a closed head injury that could have been avoided by wearing a helmet.

If you go to a city to party where a person has 1 in 50 chance of being a victim of a violent crime. If you think that its fun to hang out in a city that is ranked as one of the least safest places in the country, why are we suprised when tragedy happens?

The only thing "random" about what happened was the name of the victim...not that there was going to be a violent crime that night.

This is not blaming the vicitm, it should be a teaching moment. "hey, look, no one is safe in certain areas of this region.... maybe NOT going on the bar crawl in Pontiac is the better choice to make...especially when you have a kid to think about."

You claim your not blaming the victim but you keep pointing out that they should have known better. That is blaming the victim, period. Granted it's only some of the blame, it's tasteless notheless.

Besides, maybe they didn't know any better. Maybe, like normal people, they wanted to go out and have fun without checking their latest made-up crime statistics? Your plan is for everybody to please stop going to Pontiac, and if you don't, you death will be somewhat diminshed as we judge you.

[Meddle]

What exactly is Al & Jessie going to do?

Same thing they always do. Muckrake and huff and puff.

[Bham1982]

Maybe, like normal people, they wanted to go out and have fun without checking their latest made-up crime statistics?

I think that most "normal" people [[whatever that means) would agree that a 2 AM visit to a sketchy nightclub in a high-crime section of Pontiac is probably foolish, especially for a 19 year old mother.

Doesn't have anything to do with the crime, but it's relevant to the overall situation. There are ways to minimize risk.