Can you identify this car????

[EastsideAl]

Just a little bit more information on the car, from the forum at the ForgottenFiberglass website:

http://www.forum.forgottenfiberglass....php?f=4&t=223

I wonder who the "Detroit National Automobile Co." were? And if there really were ever 3 cars, as stated in the article linked above, and what happened to the other 2?

[vetteor442]

Thanks for all the help it is A Seagrave car!!!! Any more info would be nice.. Seagrave company sending all they have on it...Car does run!!!

Tom

[Whitehouse]

So is this a unique example? If this was a show car, it certainly had a better fate than this gorgious Lexus!!






You know what they do with these cars after a while?!

[GUSHI]

The brakes failed on the Lexus, lol

[Wheels]

The brakes failed on the Lexus, lol

Or maybe the accelerator stuck?

[beachboy]

Sorry for resurrecting an old thread ... can any DY'ers help ID this old car? It might appear to have a right-hand drive ... an Oldsmobile?



Thank you for whatever info you can provide

[davewindsor]

Sorry for resurrecting an old thread ... can any DY'ers help ID this old car? It might appear to have a right-hand drive ... an Oldsmobile?



Thank you for whatever info you can provide

I'm guessing the "P-4" stands for Packard 4-door. Look at the 1914 Packard Model 4-48 Touring below. 10 spoke rims like above and very similar features. I'm guessing you'll find it somewhere in the Packard family around that year.

Packard Model 4-48 touring">

[Packman41]

Sorry, but that is NOT a Packard. In the B/W photo the radiator lacks the typical oxbow or tombstone shaped top. Lacks the extra body lines/creases that Packard had - is too plain looking. Lacks the larger hub caps with Packard's symbol - a red hexagonal shape. Has a much shorter hood and thus a smaller engine than a Packard would have.

Maybe P-4 is for Peerless.

[Richard]

? Flat firewall most past 1915 seem to have rounded firewalls or the part In front of the windshield,and louvered the hoods like the Packard picture.

also looks close to the Peerless,but peerless had the big peerless name across the radiator going by P4 may just be meaning picture number 4 ?

1912 or 1913 switched to left hand drive ?

[davewindsor]

? Flat firewall most past 1915 seem to have rounded firewalls or the part In front of the windshield,and louvered the hoods like the Packard picture.

also looks close to the Peerless,but peerless had the big peerless name across the radiator going by P4 may just be meaning picture number 4 ?

1912 or 1913 switched to left hand drive ?

I still think it may be a limited production Packard. The 1913 Peerless touring car [[below) doesn't have the bulbous front fender tips and has a half hexagon shaped hood. The 1914 Packard touring car went for over 4 grand in 1914, so there were only a couple hundred made for such an astronomical price. You could probably buy ten Ford touring cars at that price. Add a hundred years with salt damage, car crashes, etc. and there are probably only a few in known existence today. This could have been a slightly different Packard model in 1913 or one with different options, a special edition or even a custom request from the buyer that vanished from known existence over the course of a hundred years. When companies go bankrupt, files go missing, so how can you be certain it's not a Packard? The features are all too similar compared to any other car of that time.

As for "P-4" meaning picture 4. Come on. Why write picture on a picture? It's redundant. If it meant picture 4, why write hyphen 4 instead of "#4"? Why put a P in front of it when simply "#4" would suffice? And if they are taking shortcuts and "P" meant picture, why write the owner's full name? Why not write "P-4 Earl's first car"? Are you suggesting they're going to write his full name in all the pictures? "P-3 Earl Wagoner buying tickets for the theatre." "P-2 Earl Wagoner cleaning out his shotgun for a hunting trip." "P-1 Earl Wagoner sitting at his office desk."

Also, why write "car" if "P" meant picture? Why not write "P-4 Earl Wagoner's first Packard" if P meant picture? P-4 is making reference to the manufacturer's name and I think it's more than coincidence that it's P-4 and the car has 4 doors.


Peerless Model 36 7-Passenger Touring Car | Sports & Classics of ...">

[Richard]

Well I am not one to argue with the Packard guys I would think that they kinda know thier cars and not much escapes them.

P 4 Is like you mentioned,guessing,so no point in really dwelling on that one.

There was what ? 200 car companies in Detroit at that time.

I am looking at things that the car has that eliminates it from the other common known cars.

Flat cowl.
Windshield support rods.
Small lights on the flat firewall.

All the other cars that used a flat cowl and windshield support rods are pre 1910 but then they had the massive carriage lights cowl mounted,but they all had louvered hoods.

The peerless does not use the mud slingers on the front fenders like the Packard picture and the posters pic,all of the common makes used the rounded cowl.

The picture I posted is a car company that was called Ohio car company.

I wonder if it was from a company that used other parts from other companies much like AMC did to create a car.

Beachboy Earl Wagner was listed as a life insurance salesman in the City of Detroit in 1910
same one?

[CassTechGrad]

I found this information in "The Standard Catalog of American Cars", 1982 edition. I wonder where the aluminum one is?

[Bigb23]

While you guys are dusting off the cobwebs, I remembered a thread reference to this logo, but could not find it. Any info?



Attachment 31748

[SammyS]

While you guys are dusting off the cobwebs, I remembered a thread reference to this logo, but could not find it. Any info?



Attachment 31748

I thought they were sticking it to Henry Ford but apparently that's not the case

http://thejewniverse.com/2015/why-do...a-jewish-star/

In 1900, Horace Elgin Dodge and John Francis Dodge founded the Dodge Brothers Company. The brothers were not Jewish, but their original logo looked a lot like the Star of David. It was a circle with two interlocking triangles forming a six-pointed star. An interlocked “DB” was at the center of the star, and the words “Dodge Brothers Motor Vehicles” encircled the outside edge.

One popular belief was that the symbol was chosen to anger their competitor Henry Ford, a notorious anti-Semite, though the Dodge Brothers Club insists it wasn’t so: they were friends at the time. Plus, the club points out, the “Star of David” was not universally linked to Judaism when the logo first appeared in 1914.

The brothers died in 1920 and never explained their decision. The “DB” star was discontinued for the 1939 models, perhaps because the company believed certain export markets would not buy a car with the link to the Jewish symbol. The Club newsletter editor suggested the “emblem is also a ‘Solomon’s Seal’ sign of interconnected spirits, as the brothers were.” Or the triangles could be the Greek letter Delta [[for Dodge), or it was modeled after a law-enforcement badge. Or maybe they just liked how it looked.

[Bigb23]

The Dyes forum is best known for items like this.

Thank you, SammyS.

[archfan]

I found this information in "The Standard Catalog of American Cars", 1982 edition. I wonder where the aluminum one is?

I couldn't find anything on the aluminum one, but this was an interesting story of finding one of the fiberglass ones: http://www.oldcarsweekly.com/news/ho...d-long-slumber

[Jimaz]

While you guys are dusting off the cobwebs, I remembered a thread reference to this logo, but could not find it. Any info?



Attachment 31748

It's mentioned in
DetroitYES Home » Discuss Detroit » Did You Wear a badge to work in a factory?

[Honky Tonk]

I thought they were sticking it to Henry Ford but apparently that's not the case

http://thejewniverse.com/2015/why-do...a-jewish-star/

That is one interesting website, SammyS, Thanx.

[beachboy]

Beachboy Earl Wagner was listed as a life insurance salesman in the City of Detroit in 1910 same one?

Thank you to all who have responded thus far. Earl Wagner was a wealthy banker in a small town [[Lower Michigan) and it seems he might have had some business interests in Detroit in the early 20th Century [[we are checking this out...) [blue text added 04 Oct 2016]. "P-4" is an index number of a picture in a digital archive of thousands of photos of that town. Those of us who are trying to decipher some of the pix have no idea what kind of car this was ... as you mentioned, it could be a custom touring car, or one made up from several manufacturers' parts. Given Mr. Wagner's means, also several Packards owned by wealthy folks in our town, I would tentatively lean toward this being a custom Packard touring car with some small variations due to custom coachwork. The bulbulous fenders seem to be present in this picture of a 1912 Packard "48" touring car:



Whatever info, insights, etc. that DY'ers can provide is - and will continue to be - gratefully accepted. Thank you!!

[Bigb23]

Krit motor car company ? WTF ?

[Richard]

Krit motor car company ? WTF ?

That was before some wacko decided to use it for a drugged up sadistic reason.

[Richard]

Really cool info on the seagrave,it was posted in 2014 and he said it was for sale,that was blue and the one the Op posted was red so I wonder if the aluminum one survived in a barn somewhere.

There was a thread somewhere here about a wharehouse that was used to store vintage cars,in the link the guy says the owner purchased the car when in was in a warehouse with other vintage cars.

I wonder if it is the same one.

Beachboys car ....

Front fenders are curved over the front tire where the Packard picture the front fenders are straight.

It seems to have brass headlight trim,hubs,and it seems like maybe the front mud slingers are maybe brass.

The rear end and brake drum seems heavy duty as if it was a eight cylinder car.

I am going to see if I can maybe find a match on the front fender style and go from there,a bit intrigued now I guess.

A lot of these prototypes and unique cars seem to be hiding in Michigan,which would make sense as they were born there.

[beachboy]

Richard wrote: "The rear end and brake drum seems heavy duty as if it was a eight cylinder car."

Keen insight -- thank you, Richard!!

[Packman41]

Richard wrote: "The rear end and brake drum seems heavy duty as if it was a eight cylinder car."

Keen insight -- thank you, Richard!!

The reason the rear brakes look so heavy duty is because cars of that era did not have front brakes. Four wheel brakes did not come into existence on production cars until Packard introduced them in 1923 as standard equipment.

[Richard]

10 spokes on the front 12 on the rear and comparing the rear brake size to other similar vintage makes they are huge.

Many similarities to the maroon 1912 Peerless model 36 7 passenger which was the big 6 cylinder,bigger brakes.

Differences are,the windshield in the picture beachboy posted is higher and the support brakets are different.

Front fenders appear to be larger with the mud slingers that appear to be also brass tipped.

If those were removed it would appear as a 1912 Peerless 6 cyl,but the fenders and different windshield adds more questions.





The peerless also does not have the notch in the cowl behind the side lights,or between the windshield and side lights,lots of similarities but not a match.
Looks like the windshield is folded so maybe is why it looks lower?