Your daily dose of dishonesty: Romney: "I'll Take A Lot Of Credit' For Auto Industry"

[firstandten]

Outside of reasonably required government mandates and compliances, if the government could 'GET OUT OF THE WAY' more small business could grow stronger it can be argued. Which would create more jobs...

For example, the looming Obamacare [[vote for it to "find out what's in it...", Pelosi construct) pending swamp of regulations and costs some companies are not hiring as they would. Other regulations and the growing 9000+ page tax codes...

Oye. I would not want to start a business now.

The Repubs are proof-positive that if you throw enough stuff against the wall enough times some of it is bound to stick. Case in point the Affordable Care Act.

http://www.factcheck.org/2012/02/gop...opper-again-2/

[TKshreve]

How, exactly is government "in the way"? Could you be just a bit more specific?

Herein lies the debate about "Gubment Regulation" that Rights and Lefts continue to joust over.

I will add my experiences which are directly related to the argument, but do not speak for the entire debate at hand.

First let me say that the right continues to decry regulation as a leading prohibitive hurdle to creating businesses, i.e - jobs. But it seems to me they are incapable of contrasting the different forms of regulation and stick by this generic blanket accusation on all of it. Whether the FDA and EPA is greased to get things through is one thing, but I still feel they perform their due diligence to make sure a particular new commodity is not going to have some kind of detrimental externality upon society. Who will watch out for us if these regulatory authorities are vanquished?

On a personal experience, I used to open new restaurants across the U.S. for a national chain. Dealing with the local regulatory agencies was an inevitable necessity with each and every location. But the hoops they deemed needed jumping was very inconsistent from one town to the next, and more so from one state to the next. I witnessed such obvious forms of local collusion in some areas it would make you sick. Health Inspectors demanding $20,000 grease traps in a concept that doesn't even have a grease byproduct. Little did we know, we would be buying that grease trap from the health inspectors brother-in-law.

So I guess when we talk about reducing all this back-breaking regulation it would help if the "wolf criers" could give us some direct examples of what they would target....... and more importantly - why? And let's look at the lower tier forms of regulation as the potential main culprit hindering small business growth, not just the high hanging fruit.

[oladub]

Actually, the economy is doing MUCH better than when President Obama took office. It is obviously when you consider that union jobs have been reduced, government jobs [[at every level) have been reduced and money from the fraudulently inflated real estate market have been eliminated.

It isn't government's fault that American's aren't adjusting to a new global economy.

Actually the economy is not doing much better, or even better, than when Obama took office. The failing economy has been plastered over with printing press money by the Treasury Department and the Federal Reserve. One would think that dumping $18T into the market would have improved the official unemployment rate to at least as high as the worst unemployment level during the Bush administration. Bush was no good but Obama hasn't proven to be any better. If I had a counterfeit money machine in my basement, I would expect to be doing better. Why has this solution not worked so well for Obama?

Good point though about the fraudulently high real estate prices created by our corporatist government. They are still going down so there is some hope that young people will be able to enter the housing market. At least Obama transferred much of the bad paper from Wall Street to Main Street on Christmas Eve, 2009 to democratize the mess.

You are also right that "It isn't government's fault that American's aren't adjusting to a new global economy." Government just sets policies e.g. that encourage businesses to transfer US jobs overseas or allows illegal aliens to compete for remaining jobs at home. Government extends unemployment benefits to accommodate all the US workers it screws. What better way of helping US workers adjust to government policies. Those ungrateful workers .

[Zacha341]

Well look at California for example. What a mess!

http://prudentinvestornewsletters.bl...-business.html

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/2011/11/17/california039s_econom...he_long_stall_267385.html

Just swamped in taxes [[for programs some containing pork and fluff), regulations in addition to the global shifts of economies and other factors! If times allows I'll see what I can dig up more things specifically.

Regarding the pending Health Care Act initiatives and cost outlays, large and mid-size businesses plan 3 to 5 years out in terms of costs relative to insurance compliances, and bueracratic expenditures.

How, exactly is government "in the way"? Could you be just a bit more specific?

Most of the provisions of the Health Care Act don't take effect until 2014, so it's just a *tad* disingenuous to claim that these regulations are hampering businesses at present.

[ghettopalmetto]

Well look at California for example. What a mess!

http://prudentinvestornewsletters.bl...-business.html

http://www.vvdailypress.com/articles...tax-click.html

Just swamped in taxes [[for programs some containing pork and fluff), regulations in addition to the global shifts of economies and other factors! If times allows I'll see what I can dig up more things specifically.

Swamped in regulations? Neither of the two links you cited provided a single example of ANY regulation, let alone one that stifles business.

Since California has about 12 percent of the nation's population, though, it reasons they would lose more jobs than say, Delaware in the midst of a massive recession. They also had some of the most severely overheated housing markets in the country too. But rather than fact-check first, we'll just throw some mindless talking points at the board and hope no one notices. I'm calling your bluff.

And if California's current crappy economy is due to taxes and overregulation, then why does the list of states with the highest unemployment rates look like this? Must be those high taxes and burdensome regulations in Nevada and the Southeast, huh?

http://www.bls.gov/web/laus/laumstrk.htm

42	SOUTH CAROLINA	8.9
43	FLORIDA	9.0
43	GEORGIA	9.0
43	MISSISSIPPI	9.0
43	NEW JERSEY	9.0
47	NORTH CAROLINA	9.7
48	DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA	9.8
49	CALIFORNIA	11.0
50	RHODE ISLAND	11.1
51	NEVADA	12.0

[Zacha341]

Hold on... I revised one of those links relative to regulations, see above. You responded before I had a revise it to add one more specific to the point [[though it did mention regulations in the title [[this one is more specific):

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/2011/11/17/california039s_econom...he_long_stall_267385.html

See also: Federal Regulation Stifles Lending That Would Create Jobs

http://www.usnews.com/opinion/blogs/economic-intelligence/2012/05/04/federal-regulation-stifles-lending-that-would-create-jobs

[rb336]

dumping $18T into the market would have improved the official unemployment rate to at least as high as the worst unemployment level during the Bush administration. .

18 trilllion? where are you getting those figures? There was brief talk of a $1.8 trilliion stimulus, but it ended up being what? 800 billion, with a significant chunk redirected to tax breaks for the wealthy. Private employment is up, government employment is down

[oladub]

18 trilllion? where are you getting those figures? There was brief talk of a $1.8 trilliion stimulus, but it ended up being what? 800 billion, with a significant chunk redirected to tax breaks for the wealthy. Private employment is up, government employment is down

The partial audit of the Federal Reserve discovered that the Federal Reserve had sprinkled $16T around including $1.2+T to foreign banks. There was the Porkulus money and the Wall Street bailouts [[Bush should get much of the credit for that), the Christmas Eve, 2009 transfer of debt from Wall Street to taxpayers, and Obama's annual $1T deficits he bills to our children. With Obama's annual $1T deficit charges to US taxpayers to make himself look good, perhaps it's more than $18T by now. It doesn't seem like Obama has any tricks to stabilize the economy except to print and spend. It didn't work in the Weimar Republic or Zimbabwe, and it won't work here forever either.

[Whitehouse]

Again, I'm an outsider. And a lot of you inhere criticize Obama for not accomplishing anything significant. [[Didn't watch that video on the first page, did you?) Anyway, a major cause for the lack of getting-things-done was of course the Senate. There are 51 Democrats, two independents and 49 Republican trolls who shoot down anything that smells democratic. And of course the house that is held hostage by John Boehner and cohorts. [[Can't help it, but as a Dutchman, every time I see that name I struggle with it. To my brain that name is pronounced Boner and I still need to adjust to say it as Bayner.)

Safe to say, if I was American I would have voted Democratic. Especially as Detroit citizens you should appreciate universal health care. You will hate paying for it if you don't need it but when that bomb goes off and a doctor tells you you've got some type of cancer under your skin, you will thank the president to have stuck his head in the block for you and saved your house, your family from poverty and you life...

And now he stuck his head out for the LGBT movement. A smart move I guess. Romney will be pushed in a corner now that the overall feeling of the American population is swinging the other way. And it also changes the subject from the other usual suspects like Wall Street, abortion and euthanasia. Although JP Morgan's $2 billion gamble now threatens to derail that. [[Note that Obama has a strong hand over Romney when it comes to that. Romney is seen as the big money candidate anyway, which works against him).

And back to the topic start. Romney would have bankrupt the auto industry. And he's a man with experience. He made his personal fortune with Bain Capital, creating misery for thousands of others in the process. This is what Ford, Chrysler and GM could have looked if he had it his way. Listen to the sad and chilling story of the former steelworkers of Kansas City's GST Steel. Sobering stuff.



Nuff said. Romney is totally untrustworthy.

[Jimaz]

The 6-minute version of that video: Romney Economics: Bankruptcy and Bailouts at GST Steel

• RomneyEconomics.com

[Jimaz]

Mitt Romney Versus Reality: Auto Recovery Edition

[Whitehouse]

Dear me! It's not getting any better for Romney. He blames Obama for resurrecting the Jeremiah Wright controversy... No you stupid fu#k! That controversy is nothing but retaliation! Your major problem, Mitt, is that the Obama administration is bashing you with those pesky things called facts! Here's another piece of misery Romney and his Bain capital left behind in their wake. Same thing all over again. Method of operation is clear by now. And the facts keep coming. This is not the right man for the US of A, or indeed the world.


Watch and weep.

[oladub]

Romney's campaign contributors made large profits in the Obama GM bailout.
GM is becoming China Motors.[[9min14sec) The largest employer in Saginaw is now tied to the Chinese military. Americans are being sold out. Maybe, in return for such advantage, China agreed to keep buying US Treasuries to float the Obama administration for awhile... not that Romney would make much difference.

"Meet the new boss; same as the old boss"

[rb336]

what a load of crap. They are investing in the largest potential market in the world. they would be stupid not to.

[oladub]

what a load of crap. They are investing in the largest potential market in the world. they would be stupid not to.

What an interesting way of investing $80 taxpayer bailout dollars; putting Chinese to work building cars. According to the link, putting Chinese to work doing a lot of the R&D work too.

[rb336]

very little R&D - devoted to chinese issues, specifically. not a bailout, a loan, the vast majority of which was repaid. Whether any of THAT money went to china is questionable anyway. that whole clip was mostly BS distortions of facts and out-of-context statements. Not worth listening to.

[oladub]

very little R&D - devoted to chinese issues, specifically. not a bailout, a loan, the vast majority of which was repaid. Whether any of THAT money went to china is questionable anyway. that whole clip was mostly BS distortions of facts and out-of-context statements. Not worth listening to.

The head of GM says that R&D is being transferred. He did not indicate that "very little" R&D was being transferred. Do you have a more succinct source than the head of GM? With 15 GM plants mentioned in the film and a billion spent on a Brazil plant and more plants in Mexico, how would it be even possible to not mix bailout dollars when 70% of GM cars are now built overseas? We also invested money into Al Gore's car, the Karma, made in Finland. I calculated that over half of cash for clunkers money went overseas. Please, President Obama, take holidays and play golf to reduce the percentage of days you probably inadvertently destroy US jobs.

[rb336]

Where did he say R&D was being transferred? answer -- he DIDN'T. The clip also makes it seem that manufacturing of 70% of cars happened AFTER the "bailout." it is pure bullshit and you fell for it hook line and sinker because it conforms to your dogma

[oladub]

Where did he say R&D was being transferred? answer -- he DIDN'T. The clip also makes it seem that of 70% of cars happened AFTER the "bailout." it is pure bullshit and you fell for it hook line and sinker because it conforms to your dogma

rb336: “Where did he say R&D was being transferred? answer -- he DIDN'T. The clip also makes it seem that of 70% of cars happened AFTER the "bailout." it is pure bullshit and you fell for it hook line and sinker because it conforms to your dogma[/QUOTE]

In post #66 you claimed there was very little R&D being done in China by GM. You are apparently unable to back that up. Instead, you asked, “Where did he say R&D was being transferred? answer -- he DIDN'T.”

This is why I must come to your rescue and help you with your comprehension problem. I transcribed the following comments for you by the current GM CEO with that end in mind.

1:37 “We’re [[China GM) involved in…engineering design”

4:48 “We’re now building out [[in China) the advanced technology center which will bring our research and development that is centered largely in the US. We’re going to diversify that more in to China.”

Obamanomics is creating jobs in China. Meanwhile, the thirty months with the highest unemployment out of the last twenty-five years in the US have occurred during the Obama administration.

[rb336]

nice use of ellipses to hide the fact that he did not say what you claim he said.

You also seem to forget that Obama came in after the largest economic crisis since the great depression. YES that MATTERS. if your going to go in to that bullshit, go with the whole story instead of your usual, misinformed half-truths

[vetalalumni]

Not crazy about Romney, but my grandparents fled Socialism, so sure not going to vote for President Marx-a-lot. They might as well have stayed in Europe.
I guess since Obama was claiming credit for "taking out" Bin Laden, Romney felt he had to stoop to his level. Awful strategy, though.

Because Romney is not a socialist he has earned your vote? Yet you believe your grandparents should not have fled socialism in Europe. Maybe you were being facetious?

Though OBL was indeed eradicated during the Obama administration, the U.S. automobile industry's comeback did not occur due to any influence or leadership on the part of Romney. This is baseless arrogance on Romney's part.

The truly odious thing is that a great many politicians are odious by nature. As long as Obama's opponent isn't Putin, I'm voting for the other one. The guy who fixed the Olympics, or the guy who screwed up.....everything? Not a tough choice.

Remarkable judgement right there on how to use your voting right.

[maxx]

"Hookers in Times Square, God bless 'em, are offering a Mitt Romney Special. For an extra $20 they'll change positions." –David Letterman



http://politicalhumor.about.com/od/mittromney/a/Mitt-Romney-Jokes.htm