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  1. #51

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    Quote Originally Posted by cramerro View Post
    I think that it would help for you to consider your definition of "we" and "fine" compared to what others around the country and world would think. And, instead of picking a type of transit, let's say transit. Even though our transit sucks, it certainly isn't for a lack of ridership, and those who have to rely on transit have not been doing fine.
    I'm not against light rail. I'm actually for it. I'm for a light rail system on Woodward, Gratiot, and Michigan extending out to Pontiac, Mt. Clemens, and Ann Arbor.

    However, what I'm against is people making statements like, "WOW, if they shut down I-96 for maintenance, then we don't need it!"

    Yes, we need light rail, I'm for it. And also, yes, we need freeways too.

  2. #52

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    Quote Originally Posted by cramerro View Post
    ... the difference is that you can't do everything right. There are financial and political constraints. So you have to find a balance and bring everything up to the highest standards possible. Our policies and spending history has focused all of our transportation spending on highways... again you say good transportation helps, but good highways along are not good transportation.

    The connection that I did not spell out so clearly is that throughout the good times and bad in Detroit's "highway age," we have never had a lot of congestion. This is not a recent development. At some point you have to wonder what connection there is between having a poor transportation system (meaning we over-built highways and didn't fund anything else) and the inability to attract or even retain young professionals and growing industries.
    Fair enuf.

    Our inability to grasp non-auto transportation has harmed us.

    (Let me note that before the great exodus driven by school bussing (in my opinion and experience) and by the deindustrialization policies of our leaders (both parties) there was congestion in Detroit. I remember many days of jammed traffic on Grand River heading downtown prior to I-96.

  3. #53

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wesley Mouch View Post
    Fair enuf.

    Our inability to grasp non-auto transportation has harmed us.

    (Let me note that before the great exodus driven by school bussing (in my opinion and experience) and by the deindustrialization policies of our leaders (both parties) there was congestion in Detroit. I remember many days of jammed traffic on Grand River heading downtown prior to I-96.
    That's funny, I was thinking back to the transit heyday and who used it and how far they went. The lack of the concentrated manufacturing job centers of the past (and establishment of suburban office nodes) plays a huge role in how difficult it is to provide transit service to our region. What were tens of thousands of jobs on tens of acres are hundreds of jobs on hundreds or thousands of acres... times, they change.

  4. #54

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    Quote Originally Posted by cramerro View Post
    That's funny, I was thinking back to the transit heyday and who used it and how far they went. The lack of the concentrated manufacturing job centers of the past (and establishment of suburban office nodes) plays a huge role in how difficult it is to provide transit service to our region. What were tens of thousands of jobs on tens of acres are hundreds of jobs on hundreds or thousands of acres... times, they change.
    The problem was that the manufacturing and office facilities in Detroit became functionally obsolete in the 1940s. It was impossible to economically assemble enough land to improve them. Land was available outside Detroit and the proliferation of the automobile and heavy truck made it possible to exploit that empty and inexpensive land.

  5. #55

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hermod View Post
    The problem was that the manufacturing and office facilities in Detroit became functionally obsolete in the 1940s. It was impossible to economically assemble enough land to improve them. Land was available outside Detroit and the proliferation of the automobile and heavy truck made it possible to exploit that empty and inexpensive land.
    And the enshrinement of "home rule" and city-hostile policies in Lansing made it impossible for the city to grow and harness that new development to pay for refitting the urban core.

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