Bing administration says 2,500 proposed layoffs will help save Detroit $250M

[SteveJ]

They need to cut back. People will moan and groan, but it's either this or increase taxes.

250,000,000 \ 2,500 = 100,000 per job. Keep in mind that this includes benefits. It's not like each person is pulling home 100k.

I feel bad for these folks, but this simply must be done.

I don't buy that. The typical city worker makes under $20 per hour. Even with Pension and health benefits, you are looking at another $20 per hour at worst. They must be counting less equipment, fuel, computers etc...

[Anonymous]

Not a labor and employment lawyer, nor is this legal advice, but "residency" is not a protected class, and for good reason -- you can choose where you live, within reason, but you can't choose your race, color, age, etc. I think under certain circumstances, it can be a quasi-suspect class, though, as I vaguely recall a case invalidating a two- or three-year residency requirement for city commission candidates, in the 6th Circuit no less [[Michigan falls in the 6th Circuit).

Anyway, nor am I a constitutional scholar, but, outside of a statutory prohibition outlawing residency as a classification in determining candidates for separation [[distinguished from hiring/promotion), I think that a residency preference in determining who should be separated would face a rational basis test. If so, it should pass. Among other things, employees should have sufficient knowledge of and commitment to the City in order to best serve its residents, particularly in the case of police officers; provide a boost to the neighborhoods in which they live, thereby promoting the health, safety and welfare of the residents they serve; etc. etc. Given time, I could probably think of dozens of legitimate government interests served by such a preference.

By the time the legislature got around to amending the statute to address separations, the separations should have long since occured and the goal of getting rid of "carpetbagger" city employees would be at least somewhat achieved.

[jj84]

Also remember this about residency -- if you have residency you vote. Who are you and your co workers going to vote for? -- the person that promises you pay raises and benefits or the one that says we need to shrink the City down to size and cut pensions and long term costs?

Residency requirements are not at all a great thing. It's the Fox picking the guard of the Hen House.

[Scottathew]

That would be pretty lowdown and would never happen.

Start cutting the fat at the top and work your way down. Half the fat cats in the administration don't do a thing to justify their pay and the pay is way beyond what Detroit can afford.

I totally agree with this.

Flatten out the structure of the city and get rid of the fat cats.

THEN, when we have to start cutting into the people further down the chain, don't do it by longevity. Don't do it by residency. Do it by job performance.

While it's terrible that this many people will lose their jobs, it's a great time for the city to cut the fat off. Get rid of all the underperformers first.

[Richard]

The correct action would be to lay off those with the poorest performance reviews [[assuming the city does performance reviews.)

What will probably happen is those with the least seniority will be laid off, regardless of how well they perform on the job.

So take away the Fd Pd aspect then who would be left?

[firstandten]

The correct action would be to lay off those with the poorest performance reviews [[assuming the city does performance reviews.)

What will probably happen is those with the least seniority will be laid off, regardless of how well they perform on the job.

Even within the private sector, performance reviews tend to be very subjective and in many cases unfair.

I can imagine what a public sector performance review would look like.

[Hypestyles]

... so will city workers get more than a day's notice before the layoffs take place?

..for those who work in depts. where the entire operation is about to get outsourced/eliminated, will they get fair notice ahead of time?

[Buy American]

There are so many departments within the City of Detroit Government that many people don't even realize. Redundant department...just naming a few...

Angels Night
Board of Ethics [[huh?)
Cable Commission
City Council Fiscal Analysis Division
City Council Research and Analysis
Communications and Creative Services Division
Neighborhood City Halls [[Aren't they all closed now?)
Culture [[another huh??)
Greater Detroit Resource Recovery Authority [[huh?)
Renaissance Zones [[what the hell??)
Sister Cities [[Give me a break)...

just to name a few. How much of these departments will be eliminated or cut?
How many appointees [[who are not elected, who are not put in because of merit, who never worked a day for the city before Bing was elected) will be eliminated; how many commissioners for each department does it take to run it?, how many chiefs making big bucks and getting lots of perks does it take to run the police and fire departments; how many cars and drivers does the appointees, commissioners, and chiefs need to drive them to and from the casino? Instead of sucking the blood from the employees who haven't received a raise in years and who are making concessions left and right for the City, start at the top and make some severe cuts there Mr. Bing.

[antongast]

Greater Detroit Resource Recovery Authority [[huh?)

GDRRA is the incinerator. Of course, there's no logical reason to keep it open, but that's a city service that enriches wealthy elites rather than improving the quality of life for ordinary city residents, so it's probably immune from cuts.

[Novine]

"There are so many departments within the City of Detroit Government that many people don't even realize. Redundant department...just naming a few..."

This reminds me of the comments on Yahoo! or similar sites whenever there's an article about the national debt or funding Medicare or Social Security. 1000s of comments about cutting foreign aid or reducing perks for those in Congress but nothing about cuts that would really make a difference. Same with these proposals. Most of that adds up to almost nothing in the overall city budget. You could get rid of all of those and it still wouldn't save any jobs.

[Det_ard]

... so will city workers get more than a day's notice before the layoffs take place?

..for those who work in depts. where the entire operation is about to get outsourced/eliminated, will they get fair notice ahead of time?

If they weren't already acutely aware that their jobs were in extreme jeopardy then they haven't been paying attention for the last decade.

[Detroitnerd]

More than 100 years ago, Detroit Mayor Hazen Pingree fought for the creation of city-owned lighting and transit departments, to compete with the private trusts of his day. Note well that Mayor Dave Bing seeks to do away with the very departments Pingree fought so hard to create. Call it "depingrification."

Oh, and I'm sure privatizing DPL and the future disposition of Mistersky have nothing to do with Bing being a former boardmember at DTE ...

[Wesley Mouch]

There are so many departments within the City of Detroit Government that many people don't even realize. Redundant department...just naming a few...

Angels Night
Renaissance Zones [[what the hell??)
Sister Cities [[Give me a break)...

These are departments? Wow. Worse than I thought. My favorite?

Sister Cities Department. Only someone in rural Uzbekistan would notice if you disappeared.

Angel's Night Department. A one-day activity should be able to be handled by a couple of people in the Mayor's office as an extra project. Sure, this needs to be coordinated. But a department?

The real story is why these things get created? I assume that other departments fight against doing new work, so it may be the only way anything ever got done. And of course the other obvious motivation is patronage jobs. Sure, my wife's brother can run a department. And he'll be very happy to buy you nice things when he gets his new directorship. Coleman was famous for requiring city employees to work on his behalf for re-election.

[Wesley Mouch]

More than 100 years ago, Detroit Mayor Hazen Pingree fought for the creation of city-owned lighting and transit departments, to compete with the private trusts of his day. Note well that Mayor Dave Bing seeks to do away with the very departments Pingree fought so hard to create. Call it "depingrification."

Oh, and I'm sure privatizing DPL and the future disposition of Mistersky have nothing to do with Bing being a former boardmember at DTE ...

I'm sure his experience seeing a functional utility had a clarifying impact and drove him to 'Depingrification'.

I've worked with DPL with the help of the Mayor's office -- and they still were just barely functional. One supervisor we were working with promised to come back and do the work after hours as a favor -- because he said the crews would never consent to doing the project. The inmate are running that asylum.

[Novine]

"These are departments? Wow. Worse than I thought. My favorite?"

Those aren't departments. They are programs that the city runs. You can question the need but unless they warrant a line-item in the budget, I doubt you'll find any employees attached to those programs.

[Buy American]

"These are departments? Wow. Worse than I thought. My favorite?"

Those aren't departments. They are programs that the city runs. You can question the need but unless they warrant a line-item in the budget, I doubt you'll find any employees attached to those programs.

Maybe they all are not departments but most of them have telephone numbers [[city numbers, 313-224-xxxx) that is either manned by a person or a message machine. Someone gets paid, with benefits, etc.

My point is that instead of bleeding the working man dry, eliminate these redundant departments, organizations, programs, whatever the hell they are and eliminate the appointees, commissioners, 2nd, 3rd, or 4th Chief of whatever department and get down to the bare bones. Recreation Centers need to be closed. Asking people to give up 10% of their wages last year, asking them to give up another 10% this year, plus pay more for benefits, get less in return is asking too much.

[HistoryNotHisStory]

As the City continues to reduce the workers pay, many who are vested [[ more than 10 years of employment) are leaving. This is being the City Workers pensions are based upon their best 3 years out of their last 7 years. If worker continues to stay they are losing hundreds of thousands from the total of their monthly pension.

I know many who has resigned because of the reduction of their pension benefits.

[Wesley Mouch]

As the City continues to reduce the workers pay, many who are vested [[ more than 10 years of employment) are leaving. This is being the City Workers pensions are based upon their best 3 years out of their last 7 years. If worker continues to stay they are losing hundreds of thousands from the total of their monthly pension.

I know many who has resigned because of the reduction of their pension benefits.

That's fascinating. Can you detail this a bit more for us? Why would they leave early and risk losing wages vs. a small reduction in pension?

[Novine]

"My point is that instead of bleeding the working man dry, eliminate these redundant departments, organizations, programs, whatever the hell they are and eliminate the appointees, commissioners, 2nd, 3rd, or 4th Chief of whatever department and get down to the bare bones."

You're missing the point that these don't account for many people. When Police and Fire account for the largest number of employees, the idea that you can cut everything else and not touch them isn't realistic.

[Buy American]

"My point is that instead of bleeding the working man dry, eliminate these redundant departments, organizations, programs, whatever the hell they are and eliminate the appointees, commissioners, 2nd, 3rd, or 4th Chief of whatever department and get down to the bare bones."

You're missing the point that these don't account for many people. When Police and Fire account for the largest number of employees, the idea that you can cut everything else and not touch them isn't realistic.

What isn't realistic is if they lay off firefighters or police in a City where the crime rate is the highest in the country and that in one zip code [[48205) the fires outnumber the residents living there. The firefighters are working overtime because the City is now scraping the bone; police are pushed to their limits. I would much rather have my "core" services be police and fire rather than keeping Rec Centers open, believe me.

[Al Publican]

What is the number of City of Detroit's workforce today, under 10,000?

[Hermod]

What is the number of City of Detroit's workforce today, under 10,000?

I would imagine that the city has about the same number of employees [[or possibly more) than it did in 1950 [[with 1.8 million residents).

Parkinson's Law shows that government work forces expand without regard to work to be performed.

A government executive is paid on the number of his subordinates and the amount of the budget he consumes. his goals in life are then to increase the size of his empire and spend more money every year.

[coracle]

What is the number of City of Detroit's workforce today, under 10,000?

You highlight a very interesting point. I think the current workforce numbers are circa 11,000 but it would be very interesting to see a graph showing Population versus Public workers for the last 50/60 years. Any useful references?
Also, Hermod's beautifully worded succinct explanation of the "dilemma" clearly explains why all city services should be purchased from Private enterprises.
"A government executive is paid on the number of his subordinates and the amount of the budget he consumes. his goals in life are then to increase the size of his empire and spend more money every year."

[Richard]

There are so many departments within the City of Detroit Government that many people don't even realize. Redundant department...just naming a few...

Angels Night
Board of Ethics [[huh?)
Cable Commission
City Council Fiscal Analysis Division
City Council Research and Analysis
Communications and Creative Services Division
Neighborhood City Halls [[Aren't they all closed now?)
Culture [[another huh??)
Greater Detroit Resource Recovery Authority [[huh?)
Renaissance Zones [[what the hell??)
Sister Cities [[Give me a break)...

just to name a few. How much of these departments will be eliminated or cut?
How many appointees [[who are not elected, who are not put in because of merit, who never worked a day for the city before Bing was elected) will be eliminated; how many commissioners for each department does it take to run it?, how many chiefs making big bucks and getting lots of perks does it take to run the police and fire departments; how many cars and drivers does the appointees, commissioners, and chiefs need to drive them to and from the casino? Instead of sucking the blood from the employees who haven't received a raise in years and who are making concessions left and right for the City, start at the top and make some severe cuts there Mr. Bing.

http://www.ci.detroit.mi.us/Departme...anceZones.aspx

Actually if one got rid of the DEGC and applied this correctly things would be a lot different.

[Detroit_uke]

Current workforce numbers: 13,400.