Issues within the Archdiocese of Detroit..A beacon of hope in NE Detroit is dimmer.

**East Detroit** · April-17-12, 07:03 PM

If actually concerned about a lack of priests, it seems odd that the AoD would close the churches that aren't making a profit and keep those open that do. Wouldn't it make more sense to keep open the churches that are in the stressed areas so that they could serve where most needed? The people in the non-stressed areas could travel to the stressed areas, but the opposite is not true.

Am I dreaming?

**jcole** · April-17-12, 07:13 PM

Just goes to show where the AoD's priorities lie

Originally Posted by East Detroit

If actually concerned about a lack of priests, it seems odd that the AoD would close the churches that aren't making a profit and keep those open that do. Wouldn't it make more sense to keep open the churches that are in the stressed areas so that they could serve where most needed? The people in the non-stressed areas could travel to the stressed areas, but the opposite is not true.

Am I dreaming?

**SWMAP** · April-17-12, 07:26 PM

And again- the church has not abandoned the City. Is St John hospital still on the east side? How about the Dominican literacy center? St. Vincent de Paul? Various Mercy clinics? What about the cornerstone schools in the City - founded by the AoD? Christi Rey school? U of D Mercy? Marygrove? St. Patrick's community Center? The Capuchin & St. Leo and all the other soup kitchens? How ate these not the work and priority of the Catholic church?

GUSHI · April-17-12, 07:32 PM

There is not enough priest, so serve a church of 50 in Detroit or serve a parish of 2000 in the burbs,

I would say serve both, but that may not be possible, the catholic church should let woman be priest, hopefully one day that will come, until then beautiful churches in the cities will continue to close, sold, stripped or become mosks, very sad, sad when building that can't be replicated form millions upon mil
Ions of dollars will be set to rot.

GUSHI · April-17-12, 07:40 PM

Resurrection closed in 89, school closed in 60s now a Mosk, st lads school closed now sold, parish who knows how long, st florian school closed, parish who knows how long, our lady help of Christians now a Mosk, the Aod while not completely leaving Detroit, it left parts of it to rott

Originally Posted by SWMAP

And again- the church has not abandoned the City. Is St John hospital still on the east side? How about the Dominican literacy center? St. Vincent de Paul? Various Mercy clinics? What about the cornerstone schools in the City - founded by the AoD? Christi Rey school? U of D Mercy? Marygrove? St. Patrick's community Center? The Capuchin & St. Leo and all the other soup kitchens? How ate these not the work and priority of the Catholic church?

**jcole** · April-17-12, 07:45 PM

As my brother in law, a devout Catholic who sent all 4 of his children to Catholic schools at great expense and sacrifice, said: The Archdiocese likes to take your money and close your church.

**townonenorth** · April-17-12, 07:56 PM

Originally Posted by jcole

As my brother in law, a devout Catholic who sent all 4 of his children to Catholic schools at great expense and sacrifice, said: The Archdiocese likes to take your money and close your church.

And your schools, too. Don't forget that.
And they wonder why I don't attend their church anymore.

I'm sorry to see that they are attempting to game the system by ordering a priest away. That was what I was thinking about when they mentioned that strategy a while back, the potential to influence winners and losers. Good luck to other churches in the diocese, it's all rigged, so just hang on and ride it out.

GUSHI · April-17-12, 08:06 PM

I always wondered would it be possible to move a church building from the city to the burbs, and if so why doesn't the church do it, instead of building a new building in for ex macomb twp.

**eastland** · April-17-12, 08:10 PM

Originally Posted by SWMAP

And again- the church has not abandoned the City. Is St John hospital still on the east side? How about the Dominican literacy center? St. Vincent de Paul? Various Mercy clinics? What about the cornerstone schools in the City - founded by the AoD? Christi Rey school? U of D Mercy? Marygrove? St. Patrick's community Center? The Capuchin & St. Leo and all the other soup kitchens? How ate these not the work and priority of the Catholic church?

Is that the same St. John Hospital with its front entrance now in Grosse Pointe Woods and the closed hospitals on Jefferson, Gratiot and Outer Drive?

**DetroiterOnTheWestCoast** · April-17-12, 08:25 PM

Originally Posted by MikeyinBrooklyn

Could not agree more. I would be very surprised to find out if the sentiments above, especially by BHAM1982 [[whom I usually find to be very rational), came from people who actually attend Catholic services. I am proudly gay and Catholic, and find no contradiction there. And I find no hate at church. In fact, we talk quite a bit about helping the community, and many of us volunteer. Even more give money. And church affiliated hospitals and clinics provide lots of low-cost and free health services, including for women. The church is only asking that there be a conscience exemption from being forced to pay for contraceptive and abortive services, which obviously are against church teaching.

Gay and catholic and you find no hate? I guess you ignore the pope [[that guy is his darling red loafers who has commissioned his own perfume - guess that's ministering to the poor - and the bishops.)

**Eastburn** · April-17-12, 08:28 PM

Originally Posted by SWMAP

And again- the church has not abandoned the City. Is St John hospital still on the east side? How about the Dominican literacy center? St. Vincent de Paul? Various Mercy clinics? What about the cornerstone schools in the City - founded by the AoD? Christi Rey school? U of D Mercy? Marygrove? St. Patrick's community Center? The Capuchin & St. Leo and all the other soup kitchens? How ate these not the work and priority of the Catholic church?

Agree that these are examples of the work of the Catholic Church but many [[most) are the work of religious orders not the AoD. The Catholic Church isn't giving Fr. Jovita the boot. It's the AoD.

We sometimes seem to lose sight of what should be most important to any church - the people.

**jcole** · April-17-12, 08:30 PM

I care about that corner of the city falling further into the morass that has all but taken it over. And without SJ there, it's just another anchor gone. If the AoD truly gave a damn about the city or their parishioners, they would keep that church where it is in hopes of making it a little better place to live around there. And in hopes of turning around some of the young people coming out of that area.

**SWMAP** · April-17-12, 08:37 PM

Okay, you are right. The AoD doesn't give a damn. Your single example pitched against a litany proves it. I capitulate!
But I should point out that the religious orders doing charitable works and running charitable institutions operate under and receive funding & support from the institutional church.

**jcole** · April-17-12, 08:43 PM

Sure, they do care. About the wealthy parishes, not the ones than need them. Maybe they could sell some of the empty property that they own or maybe the Arch Bishop could move into slighty less , shall we say, comfortable quarters, and donate some of that money to the individual churches for operating expenses instead of closing them down.

Originally Posted by SWMAP

Okay, you are right. The AoD doesn't give a damn. Your single example pitched against a litany proves it. I capitulate!
But I should point out that the religious orders doing charitable works and running charitable institutions operate under and receive funding & support from the institutional church.

**rjk** · April-17-12, 08:43 PM

Originally Posted by GUSHI

Resurrection closed in 89, school closed in 60s now a Mosk, st lads school closed now sold, parish who knows how long, st florian school closed, parish who knows how long, our lady help of Christians now a Mosk, the Aod while not completely leaving Detroit, it left parts of it to rott

St Florian still has a dept of 1.85 million that it owes to the AOD from keeping its school open obviously longer than they should have. I'm not sure what more the AOD could have done.

I've attended mass at many churches in Detroit and to suggest that the AOD is just flippantly closing churches is ridiculous. Many of these churches top out at 30 people for a Sunday mass. Plus it doesn't help that most of the churches in Detroit are very large buildings and have a high overhead.

There's a very simple solution to the church closing in Detroit and elsewhere. If people in these communities want the churches to stay open they should start attending mass and supporting the church. If the they choose not to attend and become involved in the church they really shouldn't be complaining.

**kellyroad** · April-17-12, 10:40 PM

Originally Posted by SWMAP

I wonder if there is some misunderstanding about Fr. Jovita's standing. He is not a priest of or for the archdiocese of Detroit. There is no assignment overseas unless his Nigerian Bishop makes one. As I understand it he was employed here on a sort of contract basis for two years & now he has been relieved of that position. All here are correct that there is a shortage of priests to take parishes - so I doubt this was done lightly. There is a reason and it is not that a greedy AoD wants to dump a poor parish. At least when it is a matter of a priest from another country that is not usually the reason.
To stay here forever, a priest has to " incardinated" into the Diocese. It does not appear that Fr. Jovita is incardinated and that may be because his Bishop opposes, he opposes or the AoD opposes or Immigration opposes.

The point of incardination to a Nigerian Bishop may offer a plausable reason as to why Fr. Jovita might be leaving late June; however, one has to wonder about the timing [[June 30 happens to be the time set by the AOD where the plans of Parish closings and/or consolidation are finalized in the "Together in Faith" program). All the above supposition would have been a moot point if the AOD offered a position of Pastor to Fr. Jovita. One also wonders if the AOD could have been more proactive with Nigerian Bishop and asked for an extension of services.

**kellyroad** · April-17-12, 10:44 PM

Originally Posted by rjk

St Florian still has a dept of 1.85 million that it owes to the AOD from keeping its school open obviously longer than they should have. I'm not sure what more the AOD could have done.

I've attended mass at many churches in Detroit and to suggest that the AOD is just flippantly closing churches is ridiculous. Many of these churches top out at 30 people for a Sunday mass. Plus it doesn't help that most of the churches in Detroit are very large buildings and have a high overhead.

There's a very simple solution to the church closing in Detroit and elsewhere. If people in these communities want the churches to stay open they should start attending mass and supporting the church. If the they choose not to attend and become involved in the church they really shouldn't be complaining.

It's the old clliche...."Preaching to the choir"

**kellyroad** · April-17-12, 11:08 PM

Originally Posted by Eastburn

Sorry, KR. I didn't see your thread before I started mine. Of course, you started the original St. Jude thread, didn't you?

No problem Eastburn. Glad to see spirited participation on the "AOD apparently has plenty of priests"

See ya all over there

**poobert** · April-17-12, 11:59 PM

All of you are so damn quick to slam the Catholic Church for leaving Detroit when it is really the only major institution of any kind that still has a presence throughout the city. 90% of Metro Detroit Catholics live in the suburbs, and, despicably, many of them would even pillage the city like Gushi and outright move the churches PHYSICALLY to their sprawlburbs. Yet a disproportionate number of parishes HAVE remained open despite all this.
The white mainline protestant denominations left 50 years ago except for a couple historic parishes each yet it isn't fashionable to go persecute them.
Yet the Catholic church is still operating parishes, soup kitchens, high schools, literacy centers, UNIVERSITIES in a largely non-Catholic city...and what do you do that's so special?

**poobert** · April-18-12, 12:08 AM

Originally Posted by GUSHI

I always wondered would it be possible to move a church building from the city to the burbs, and if so why doesn't the church do it, instead of building a new building in for ex macomb twp.

Yeah! Let's move St. Florian to Hall Road. Put it between the Best Buy and the Target. Is there enough parking????
Where else in the civilized world but Metro Detroit would such a simpleton suggest something so offensive, aesthetically and otherwise?
And it's mosque, genius.

**aoife** · April-18-12, 06:52 AM

Originally Posted by DetroiterOnTheWestCoast

Gay and catholic and you find no hate? I guess you ignore the pope [[that guy is his darling red loafers who has commissioned his own perfume - guess that's ministering to the poor - and the bishops.)

That's the thing- Fr. Jovita is so kind and open minded and genuinely compassionate, he is the exact opposite of the "norm" when you think of the Catholic Church. I had the chance to get to know him when he was over at Star of the Sea a few years ago- he was the reason I actually let my kids attend church. He did not judge you on your politics [[mine being more left than most), or your views on sexuality or your past. He simply wanted to help you live a richer spiritual life by improving yourself and through helping others.

It is criminal that the AoD does not seem to value him. If they had more men like Fr. Jovita, they get some of their old parishoners back.

**Campfire Girl** · April-18-12, 08:34 AM

I totally agree, aoife. He's the very best example of a Catholic priest.

**jackie5275** · April-18-12, 09:49 AM

Originally Posted by kellyroad

may offer a plausable reason as to why Fr. Jovita might be leaving late June; however, one has to wonder about the timing [[June 30 happens to be the time set by the AOD where the plans of Parish closings and/or consolidation are finalized in the "Together in Faith" program).

The AOD runs on a July 1-June 30 fiscal year. June 30th is when the deadline was set because it ends this current fiscal year. Quite often things, primarily priest assignments, are done based on the fiscal year. The TIF initiative is an project that has set a deadline of June 30 as many projects have a deadline of a fiscal year or month end.

**kellyroad** · April-18-12, 12:01 PM

Originally Posted by poobert

All of you are so damn quick to slam the Catholic Church for leaving Detroit when it is really the only major institution of any kind that still has a presence throughout the city. 90% of Metro Detroit Catholics live in the suburbs, and, despicably, many of them would even pillage the city like Gushi and outright move the churches PHYSICALLY to their sprawlburbs. Yet a disproportionate number of parishes HAVE remained open despite all this.
The white mainline protestant denominations left 50 years ago except for a couple historic parishes each yet it isn't fashionable to go persecute them.
Yet the Catholic church is still operating parishes, soup kitchens, high schools, literacy centers, UNIVERSITIES in a largely non-Catholic city...and what do you do that's so special?

To be fair many of us do support the Catholic Church and the AOD with time, treasure, and talent and realize the difficult task of supporting all facets of Catholic stewartship with limited financial resources and more poignantly limited religious personnel. It is indeed obvious to most that the Catholic demographics within the AOD have changed drastically just over the last generation and supporting parishes with a grand edifice and scant membership needs review...Hence Parish consolidation and/or closing are a forced issue. This is what this thread is about.... There is [[was) an opportunity for a priest to remain in the AOD and serve as Pastor but the decison was to release him not to another Parish within the AOD but overseas. Many are wondering why. It has been suggested that because he is from Nigeria that his time of service is limited here in the AOD [[specifically at St. Jude). But it was understood that there was [[is) an opportunity to remain here and serve as Pastor. I am not a current member of St. Jude Parish but know Fr. Jovita and how much he is loved and respected within the community of northeast Detroit.

**Eastburn** · April-18-12, 03:30 PM

As KR says, the bottom line is that this parish had a wonderful pastor [[administrator, to be precise) who wanted to stay at St. Jude who is being "forced" to go back to Nigeria by the AoD. Makes no sense to me. The diocese is now down one good priest. I've seen no reasonable explanation for that here.