Are suburbanites aware of how unattractive living in Metro-Detroit is to outsiders?

**Patrick** · April-15-12, 03:58 PM

In such a shiatty economy, people can't be picky, especially when it comes to selecting where a job is located. If a person has choose between staying in NYC and be unemployed/underemployed or moving to Detroit for a good job, what do you think they would do?

**mwilbert** · April-15-12, 04:48 PM

Metro Detroit is attractive to people who:

1) Like the kind of things that it has.
2) Know that it has those things.

If you have a job, want to drive everywhere you go, want to live in a nice, reasonably priced house, don't care if there is a functional central city in your region but like the amenities of a large metro area and don't mind winter, then metro Detroit is a pretty attractive area. There are a lot of people who meet those criteria. There are a lot of people who don't.

Personally, I dislike having to drive and like having a vibrant central city. If Detroit weren't where I grew up and where I still have all my family, I would be very unlikely to live in the area. Not because I think it is horrible, or that it doesn't have desirable aspects, but because there are more attractive options.

**poobert** · April-15-12, 07:26 PM

First, I think, in general, the assertion is correct. Metro Detroit suburbanites, on the whole , generally see little wrong with the suburbs other than the perceptible decline of the last decade. This is an extremely provincial region, and at this point, you have suburbs full of people who have lived in the same suburbs for at least a couple generations now. Compound that with the fact that historically incomes here [[pre-the lost decade) here have been disproportionately high and that these high-income low-education suburbanies can contrast their living situation with an unbelievably horrible, unsafe city they surround, Bubba and Britney Spraycheese really believe they got it made.

Enough with this shit about houses with squirrels. Not everyone in every other city lives in a studio apartment surrounded by piles of garbage. They have squirrels elsewhere, you're not special.

Life in the city is becoming too stressful and intolerable and I'd rather be set on fire than live in the suburbs ever again. I too, see their point.

**iheartthed** · April-15-12, 07:41 PM

Originally Posted by antongast

Sounds to me like there's some self-selection at work there. Europeans who pursue opportunities to live and work in the US probably disproportionately come from the segment of the European population that enjoys things like big cars and detached houses with yards the most, and Americans who pursue opportunities to visit Europe and then rave about the historic cities and quality transit to friends back home probably disproportionately come from the segment of the American population that values those things the most.

I would go even further and say that it just seems to be the type of Europeans who end up in Detroit. I have quite a few foreign born friendsand coworkers and they all complain about the same things that Detroit lacks which us Dyes "urbanophiles" complain about. And since I know that NYC [[where I work) attracts far more foreigners than Detroit [[absolute numbers and per capita) then I have to think there is something about NYC that is more attractive than Metro Detroit.

**ghettopalmetto** · April-15-12, 07:48 PM

Originally Posted by maverick1

I work for a foreign corporation with facilities here in Metro-Detroit. Recently I had a discussion with some young European co-workers that were here on short-term assignment. They all told me that they didn't care much for Metro-Detroit. They weren't crazy about Downtown Detroit or the suburbs. They stayed in Novi. Their dislike of the suburbs was equal to their dislike of Downtown Detroit. Take Detroit proper out the picture. No one I know in cities such as DC, NY, Miami, etc. says "Detroit sucks but its suburbs are world class". This makes me wonder. Are suburbanites aware of how unattractive living in Metro-Detroit is nationally and globally? And are they aware of how unattractive it is to single people or people under 40?

It's similar to North Koreans buying the propaganda of their regime. If you don't [[or can't) go anywhere else, you don't know what "normal" really is.

Yeah yeah, big plastic houses and acres of grass to cut might be attractive to some, but you can find that shit anywhere. If the suburbs of Detroit are so fantastic, then why do Detroiters flock to Chicago on weekends, and not Schaumburg?

I've found that ordinary folks in other countries are far more interested in learning about American culture than their counterparts in the U.S. are interested in learning about other places. Every time a thread like this starts, the Sprawl Apologists start going on the defensive about how wonderful their shopping malls are, and how every other place sucks so bad. Maybe we're just a little too full of ourselves sometimes?

**Bham1982** · April-15-12, 08:03 PM

Originally Posted by poobert

Enough with this shit about houses with squirrels. Not everyone in every other city lives in a studio apartment surrounded by piles of garbage. They have squirrels elsewhere, you're not special.

Actually, that's not true. In Europe, they don't have squirrels in urban areas. You can sit all day in a park in Paris or Frankfurt, and you won't see anything but birds.

The ubiquity of squirrels [[and wildlife in general) is one of the first things you hear from European visitors, and is often mentioned as a special attribute. Now granted, you get squirrels from Manhattan to Livingston County, but they're a big deal to outsiders.

**DetroitPlanner** · April-15-12, 08:13 PM

Originally Posted by Kathleen

I can't imagine being sent to a place where I'm holed up in a hotel room with little or no access to transportation when not working in the office. With mostly malls to visit in Novi, who wouldn't think little of the area?

Excellent point. Many suburbs are simply unwalkable and lack any way to get around. It must be like prison. I doubt many companies are willing to put people up at the Townsend or Westin for three months. Most likely they get put into a long term hotel on a flag lot outside of a freeway interchange. Think Auburn Hills I-75 corridor or Ann Arbor's State St exit. Just dreadful for walking. The issue here can be found in the developer as well as the city planning commissions that have no good examples to strive for.

**JenniferL** · April-15-12, 08:27 PM

Originally Posted by GUSHI

I would take a house in Old Detroit any day of the week, than a 500 or 600 square feet apartment in brooklyn, queens, Bronx any day of the week, now they do have some nice homes in the above listed, they are just to congested for my liking.

One of metro Detroit's true assets is that we [[city as well as suburbs) have afforable houses with yards, driveways, and usually a garage. The people here aren't crammed into overpriced apartments like they are in most of the world's other large cities. Sure, a lot of the houses in our area are cookie-cutter little boxes made of ticky tacky and they all look the same, but even in such neighborhoods you can show off your style by painting your house a different color, planting flowers, adding some lawn art, building a deck, or whatever suits your fancy. You can't do that with an apartment.

SteveJ · April-15-12, 08:29 PM

Europeans love their cars almost as much as we do. If you have money there, you own a car. Not only any car, but a Mercedes or BMW. The other interesting thing that is failed to mention is that you are in trouble if you don't own a car in a lot of villages and small towns far from the major cities. The bus might pass through once a day. In order to get groceries, you may need to drive 40 minutes away to hit a medium sized city [[Smaller than Royal Oak). I have a lot of relatives in Europe and they all own cars and never take public transportation. Again, I'm not speaking for everyone but I'd rather get in my car then stick around a bus stop all day and have to stop every mile.

**wazootyman** · April-15-12, 08:39 PM

The contempt some have for Metro Detroit on this board is pretty sad. Outside of a delusional few, nobody claims this area is perfect. Most of us are well aware of its shortcomings, but we also have our reasons for living here. Personally, I love it. You can claim I'm ignorant - but who are you to judge? I'm happy here. Sorry. I'd love to see transit, Detroit proper and many of the us vs. them attitudes improve, but it's not make-or-break for me. I have a good job, a happy family, great neighbors and everything I need within walking or driving distance.

I work for a major foreign-owned company with a large presence in Metro Detroit. We have associates from India, Germany, Mexico, etc. on 3-year work assignments living in the area. Many of them are raising families here. My previous boss' children have spent their entire lives here. Now, I can't read minds, but I highly doubt they'd raise a family here if they hated it. Nobody is forced to relocate.

What's interesting is that, in my experience, many visitors [[especially those on business) are completely unaware of what the area has to offer. Many of them don't venture far from the suburban apartment complex [[or hotel) they are staying in. I couldn't tell you why exactly. I took two associates [[a visitor from Mexico and a coworker from India that has lived here for a year) downtown on Friday. They had never been, and were frankly terrified to go based on what the nay-sayers had told them. It turns out they really enjoyed their visit, and had no idea how much Detroit has to offer. Take that for what it's worth. In my opinion, if one truly knows what Detroit has to offer and fills the holes with what the suburbs have to offer, we've got a pretty good region

As for the comment about visiting Chicago vs. suburban Chicago - that's just silly. If I go to visit the Chicago area, it's because I want to see the attractions of one of the country's biggest cities. It has absolutely nothing to do with my preference of Detroit's suburbs vs. Chicago. I have no reason to go to suburban Chicago because, honestly, it offers the same things suburban Detroit does.

GUSHI · April-15-12, 08:43 PM

BMW and Mercedes are like ford and Chevys overtheir,
Most of the cabs I ever took in Europe were Mercedes, you get more stares overtheir when you have a mustang or vette or jeep , which my uncle shipped from here, people have no idea what they are it's actually pretty cool, he is actually thinking about sending his hummer H2, Benz and beamers not that big of a deal in Europe.

**wazootyman** · April-15-12, 08:47 PM

One more thing I just thought of: When I traveled to Germany last fall, I rented a car and took public transportation exactly zero times. I parked in a parking garage in my suburban-style hotel. I went to a mall that was basically German Twelve Oaks. I drove to the office and airport.

In fact, I can't think of any of my coworkers that regularly take public transportation. They drive. Germans love their cars more than we do.

Germany certainly has vibrant urban centers and public transportation. But my coworkers must not realize how unattractive living in suburban Bavaria is - you know, with the sprawl, malls and highways [[I say that tongue-in-cheek).

GUSHI · April-15-12, 08:49 PM

Me personally I Wana restore a early 60's Lincoln continental, or A 68-69 camaro and ship it overseas,

SteveJ · April-15-12, 08:53 PM

You're right Gushi they aren't but it was just my point that not everyone drives some piece of shit econobox and has ikea furniture over there and just loves taking the train. People take public transportation out of need and not choice. If they could afford a car, they would not bother with it. I remember seeing a 1960's Mustang there. I was in shock.

I agree with the others. I have a nice house, family, friends, nice job, nice car, and pretty fill up my vehicle twice a month at the most. My drive to work is 15 minutes. I would not trade my current position to live in Downtown Chicago in some tiny apartment and having to get up an hour early to take the bus to work. Some people live in fantasy land because they went to visit NYC and they took a bus and went to a bar and then took a taxi back to the hotel. Try having to wake up at 4 am in order to get to work by 7 because you have to take trains and buses to go to work. No thanks.

GUSHI · April-15-12, 09:06 PM

In general people in Europe enjoy life more then we do here, a lot of my relatives over there, don't have good jobs, but all have cars and cell phones, but were my family is from, they don't have mortgages homes have been in the family for decades, property taxes are less then 150 us a year, they always hanging out at the cafes/bars, beach, they hunt , have a garden, I actually had you few come here for a few years , work here and go back, because according to them we don't know how to live, lol , work, eat, shower, shit, sleep same routine 5 days a week. Some times 6, the funny part is you see 90 year old men smoking and drinking and still looking healthy, over here due to all the shit they put in our food, most 90 year olds are done @ 70.

**Bham1982** · April-15-12, 09:10 PM

Originally Posted by SteveJ

Europeans love their cars almost as much as we do. If you have money there, you own a car. Not only any car, but a Mercedes or BMW.

Yeah, but an A-Class Benz, which is affordable and tiny, and not even sold in the U.S. You don't see E-Class Benzes or Audi A-8s in Europe, unless you're in some embassy district or the like.

GUSHI · April-15-12, 09:15 PM

Not always the case we rented a s8 last time I was there, I saw a few e classes, and I was in a poor country montenergro , the coolest car I saw there was a dodge ram, was not expecting that.

Originally Posted by Bham1982

Yeah, but an A-Class Benz, which is affordable and tiny, and not even sold in the U.S. You don't see E-Class Benzes or Audi A-8s in Europe, unless you're in some embassy district or the like.

**Zacha341** · April-15-12, 09:29 PM

Yep, the increasingly scale of places "no tourist" should go is a factor. As Detroiters and suburbanites [[former Detroiters or whatever) we know where to go and not go. That's not a given for a tourist, or even that there is such a variance or range. Hah! A ride or exit off the freeway into the wrong area could be an 'experience'.

It's like downtown is this bubble of safety, then they'd leapfrog back to the bland hotel in say Novi? That may be the outlook of some who view Detroit as just too violent and crime ridden to venture into for the limited areas 'not' off-limits... coupled with the lack of safe walkability. Nearly all venturing would need to be curbside service.

Originally Posted by EastsideAl

Exactly. A largely empty downtown, surrounded by a poor, unsafe, and increasingly abandoned city, and surrounded again by seemingly endless generic American suburbia, is just not interesting or attractive.

**Squirtle** · April-15-12, 09:40 PM

OP, are you trying to tell us that the rest of the world has a negative view of Detroit?

SOMEONE ALERT THE PRESSES!!!

Seriously, this thread accomplishes nothing. Suburbs are the same no matter what city you are in; Sterling Heights vs. a random suburb from any major US city are pretty much indistinguishable. Detroit will have a generally negative prejudice for at least another decade or two.

**Gistok** · April-15-12, 09:51 PM

Originally Posted by Squirtle

OP, are you trying to tell us that the rest of the world has a negative view of Detroit?

SOMEONE ALERT THE PRESSES!!!

Seriously, this thread accomplishes nothing. Suburbs are the same no matter what city you are in; Sterling Heights vs. a random suburb from any major US city are pretty much indistinguishable. Detroit will have a generally negative prejudice for at least another decade or two.

Gotta agree... threads like these usually give the anti-suburb crowd something to piss and moan about... although the city is emptying out faster than ever before...

However, I disagree about the perception of Detroit. It's not as negative to foreigners as it is to Americans. I also bet that if pressed most foreigners coming here to work... their perceptions of Detroit aren't really formed until they get here and listen to their American co-workers dire warnings about the city.

Suburbanites warning about the dire consequences of Detroit... Detroiters complaining about how dreary the suburbs are... It's many of the comments on threads like this one that just show how myopic both sides really are, and why we can't get anything accomplished.

**DetroitPlanner** · April-15-12, 10:05 PM

When in Ireland I spotted a big car behind me, it was a Mercury Sable! I also spotted a Ford larger than that, I had no idea what it was as it is not sold in North America.

**gnome** · April-15-12, 10:12 PM

What a bunch of sanctimonious ninnies. You people sound like a collection of college sophomores trying their hardest to impress eachother.

Blanket statements of generalities with personal anecdotes peppered in as facts. Ninnies! Embarrassingly shallow twits.

**DetroitPlanner** · April-15-12, 10:16 PM

gnome, we are the knights that say NI!

**Novine** · April-15-12, 10:49 PM

The comments being made reveal a lot about the priorities of the people making them. People obsessed with the cleanliness of a city or whether they could drive a car wherever they want aren't people interested in the cultural offerings of various urban centers. They're not interested in living an urban lifestyle and would prefer to live on their 1/4 acre lot within driving distance of a mall. NYC, Chicago and cities are appealing because when you're there, you never run out of things to see, do and experience.

When visitors come to Detroit, after they've hit the highlights, you really have to dig deep to find new things to share with them. If you're satisfied with eating out at Applebee's or consider going to a retread 70s concert at DTE to be high culture, Detroit's dearth of culture offerings, nightlife and interesting neighborhoods is never going to be a concern to you.

**p1acebo** · April-15-12, 11:13 PM

Originally Posted by Novine

The comments being made reveal a lot about the priorities of the people making them. People obsessed with the cleanliness of a city or whether they could drive a car wherever they want aren't people interested in the cultural offerings of various urban centers. They're not interested in living an urban lifestyle and would prefer to live on their 1/4 acre lot within driving distance of a mall. NYC, Chicago and cities are appealing because when you're there, you never run out of things to see, do and experience.

When visitors come to Detroit, after they've hit the highlights, you really have to dig deep to find new things to share with them. If you're satisfied with eating out at Applebee's or consider going to a retread 70s concert at DTE to be high culture, Detroit's dearth of culture offerings, nightlife and interesting neighborhoods is never going to be a concern to you.

I get your point but Detroit definitely has more to offer than Applebee's, come on now...