Are suburbanites aware of how unattractive living in Metro-Detroit is to outsiders?

[ghettopalmetto]

I work for a foreign corporation with facilities here in Metro-Detroit. Recently I had a discussion with some young European co-workers that were here on short-term assignment. They all told me that they didn't care much for Metro-Detroit. They weren't crazy about Downtown Detroit or the suburbs. They stayed in Novi. Their dislike of the suburbs was equal to their dislike of Downtown Detroit. Take Detroit proper out the picture. No one I know in cities such as DC, NY, Miami, etc. says "Detroit sucks but its suburbs are world class". This makes me wonder. Are suburbanites aware of how unattractive living in Metro-Detroit is nationally and globally? And are they aware of how unattractive it is to single people or people under 40?

It's similar to North Koreans buying the propaganda of their regime. If you don't [[or can't) go anywhere else, you don't know what "normal" really is.

Yeah yeah, big plastic houses and acres of grass to cut might be attractive to some, but you can find that shit anywhere. If the suburbs of Detroit are so fantastic, then why do Detroiters flock to Chicago on weekends, and not Schaumburg?

I've found that ordinary folks in other countries are far more interested in learning about American culture than their counterparts in the U.S. are interested in learning about other places. Every time a thread like this starts, the Sprawl Apologists start going on the defensive about how wonderful their shopping malls are, and how every other place sucks so bad. Maybe we're just a little too full of ourselves sometimes?

[SteveJ]

Europeans love their cars almost as much as we do. If you have money there, you own a car. Not only any car, but a Mercedes or BMW. The other interesting thing that is failed to mention is that you are in trouble if you don't own a car in a lot of villages and small towns far from the major cities. The bus might pass through once a day. In order to get groceries, you may need to drive 40 minutes away to hit a medium sized city [[Smaller than Royal Oak). I have a lot of relatives in Europe and they all own cars and never take public transportation. Again, I'm not speaking for everyone but I'd rather get in my car then stick around a bus stop all day and have to stop every mile.

[GUSHI]

BMW and Mercedes are like ford and Chevys overtheir,
Most of the cabs I ever took in Europe were Mercedes, you get more stares overtheir when you have a mustang or vette or jeep , which my uncle shipped from here, people have no idea what they are it's actually pretty cool, he is actually thinking about sending his hummer H2, Benz and beamers not that big of a deal in Europe.

[Bham1982]

Europeans love their cars almost as much as we do. If you have money there, you own a car. Not only any car, but a Mercedes or BMW.

Yeah, but an A-Class Benz, which is affordable and tiny, and not even sold in the U.S. You don't see E-Class Benzes or Audi A-8s in Europe, unless you're in some embassy district or the like.

[GUSHI]

Not always the case we rented a s8 last time I was there, I saw a few e classes, and I was in a poor country montenergro , the coolest car I saw there was a dodge ram, was not expecting that.

Yeah, but an A-Class Benz, which is affordable and tiny, and not even sold in the U.S. You don't see E-Class Benzes or Audi A-8s in Europe, unless you're in some embassy district or the like.

[wazootyman]

The contempt some have for Metro Detroit on this board is pretty sad. Outside of a delusional few, nobody claims this area is perfect. Most of us are well aware of its shortcomings, but we also have our reasons for living here. Personally, I love it. You can claim I'm ignorant - but who are you to judge? I'm happy here. Sorry. I'd love to see transit, Detroit proper and many of the us vs. them attitudes improve, but it's not make-or-break for me. I have a good job, a happy family, great neighbors and everything I need within walking or driving distance.

I work for a major foreign-owned company with a large presence in Metro Detroit. We have associates from India, Germany, Mexico, etc. on 3-year work assignments living in the area. Many of them are raising families here. My previous boss' children have spent their entire lives here. Now, I can't read minds, but I highly doubt they'd raise a family here if they hated it. Nobody is forced to relocate.

What's interesting is that, in my experience, many visitors [[especially those on business) are completely unaware of what the area has to offer. Many of them don't venture far from the suburban apartment complex [[or hotel) they are staying in. I couldn't tell you why exactly. I took two associates [[a visitor from Mexico and a coworker from India that has lived here for a year) downtown on Friday. They had never been, and were frankly terrified to go based on what the nay-sayers had told them. It turns out they really enjoyed their visit, and had no idea how much Detroit has to offer. Take that for what it's worth. In my opinion, if one truly knows what Detroit has to offer and fills the holes with what the suburbs have to offer, we've got a pretty good region

As for the comment about visiting Chicago vs. suburban Chicago - that's just silly. If I go to visit the Chicago area, it's because I want to see the attractions of one of the country's biggest cities. It has absolutely nothing to do with my preference of Detroit's suburbs vs. Chicago. I have no reason to go to suburban Chicago because, honestly, it offers the same things suburban Detroit does.

[ghettopalmetto]

As for the comment about visiting Chicago vs. suburban Chicago - that's just silly. If I go to visit the Chicago area, it's because I want to see the attractions of one of the country's biggest cities. It has absolutely nothing to do with my preference of Detroit's suburbs vs. Chicago. I have no reason to go to suburban Chicago because, honestly, it offers the same things suburban Detroit does.

It's not silly in the least. When you're trying to attract a workforce that has options on where to live, you have to offer more than plastic boxes, endless freeways, and restaurants supplied by Sysco.

It's mid-April. Head to Ann Arbor right now, and ask the graduating seniors where they'll be moving next month. More importantly, ask them WHY.

Even if those kids are moving to suburban areas in a different metropolitan area, they at least have the option of choosing an urban or suburban environment. Detroit flat-out compels you, if you want an average quality of life, to live in an automobile-oriented suburb, shop at malls, and spend hours of every day in traffic.

Sometimes, I think folks don't realize how ordinary the suburbs of Detroit really are. Oakland County is just Charlotte or Atlanta without the miserable summers.

It ain't about "attractions". People with options, especially people now in their 20s and 30s, go for Quality of Life.

[DJ Tom T]

I think we need to make the distinction between tourism and immigration [[that might not be the right word, but you get my drift).

As a tourist area, Metro Detroit sucks. There isn't a large tourist draw here. However you can also say this about many other regions of the USA.

We don't have enough population to be considered a major Metropolitan area with a "core city/downtown" structure. Again, there are only a handful of cities in the USA that remotely qualify for this status.

So basically, we are like about 95% of the USA - not a whole lot to offer right? So why would anyone move here? Simple - for a job. I have met many people from out of the country that live here because of a job. The ones I've met tend to largely live in the suburbs. Why? Not because they like it any better or worse than downtown, but because it's CLOSE TO WHERE THEY WORK. Simple as that

As an aside, most of these folks [[at least the younger set) tends to be really adventurous and likes to explore, and they love hanging out downtown. But again, if their job isn't close to the city, they're not going to live in the city.

[iheartthed]

We don't have enough population to be considered a major Metropolitan area with a "core city/downtown" structure. Again, there are only a handful of cities in the USA that remotely qualify for this status.

What gave you that idea? Population-wise, Metro Detroit is in the same league as every metro on the either coast except New York and Los Angeles. But places like Boston, Philadelphia, Washington, San Francisco, etc., manage to maintain a strong core city.

[Hermod]

What gave you that idea? Population-wise, Metro Detroit is in the same league as every metro on the either coast except New York and Los Angeles. But places like Boston, Philadelphia, Washington, San Francisco, etc., manage to maintain a strong core city.

I would submit that Detroit never really had a "strong core city" in that you went downtown for special purpose shopping [[you had your own local shops), doctors, and lawyers. As the doctors and lawyers left the central city for professional buildings with parking and the suburban malls like Northland and Eastland were built, the need to go downtown for most people just went away. Back in the 40s and 50s, trips downtown were always for a special purpose. You didn't go downtown just to "hang out".

The other cities had one or more reasons for their downtown which was strong enough to survive the decay of the city around them. Detroit just didn't have that. Downtown wasn't the major employer in the area. Downtown didn't have irreplaceable buildings [[see how the large office buildings like the Broderick Tower were abandoned).

Washington DC central city would suffer the same fate as Detroit if it were not for the "federal area" at its core.

[GUSHI]

Me personally I Wana restore a early 60's Lincoln continental, or A 68-69 camaro and ship it overseas,

[SteveJ]

You're right Gushi they aren't but it was just my point that not everyone drives some piece of shit econobox and has ikea furniture over there and just loves taking the train. People take public transportation out of need and not choice. If they could afford a car, they would not bother with it. I remember seeing a 1960's Mustang there. I was in shock.

I agree with the others. I have a nice house, family, friends, nice job, nice car, and pretty fill up my vehicle twice a month at the most. My drive to work is 15 minutes. I would not trade my current position to live in Downtown Chicago in some tiny apartment and having to get up an hour early to take the bus to work. Some people live in fantasy land because they went to visit NYC and they took a bus and went to a bar and then took a taxi back to the hotel. Try having to wake up at 4 am in order to get to work by 7 because you have to take trains and buses to go to work. No thanks.

[GUSHI]

In general people in Europe enjoy life more then we do here, a lot of my relatives over there, don't have good jobs, but all have cars and cell phones, but were my family is from, they don't have mortgages homes have been in the family for decades, property taxes are less then 150 us a year, they always hanging out at the cafes/bars, beach, they hunt , have a garden, I actually had you few come here for a few years , work here and go back, because according to them we don't know how to live, lol , work, eat, shower, shit, sleep same routine 5 days a week. Some times 6, the funny part is you see 90 year old men smoking and drinking and still looking healthy, over here due to all the shit they put in our food, most 90 year olds are done @ 70.

[Squirtle]

OP, are you trying to tell us that the rest of the world has a negative view of Detroit?

SOMEONE ALERT THE PRESSES!!!

Seriously, this thread accomplishes nothing. Suburbs are the same no matter what city you are in; Sterling Heights vs. a random suburb from any major US city are pretty much indistinguishable. Detroit will have a generally negative prejudice for at least another decade or two.

[Gistok]

OP, are you trying to tell us that the rest of the world has a negative view of Detroit?

SOMEONE ALERT THE PRESSES!!!

Seriously, this thread accomplishes nothing. Suburbs are the same no matter what city you are in; Sterling Heights vs. a random suburb from any major US city are pretty much indistinguishable. Detroit will have a generally negative prejudice for at least another decade or two.

Gotta agree... threads like these usually give the anti-suburb crowd something to piss and moan about... although the city is emptying out faster than ever before...

However, I disagree about the perception of Detroit. It's not as negative to foreigners as it is to Americans. I also bet that if pressed most foreigners coming here to work... their perceptions of Detroit aren't really formed until they get here and listen to their American co-workers dire warnings about the city.

Suburbanites warning about the dire consequences of Detroit... Detroiters complaining about how dreary the suburbs are... It's many of the comments on threads like this one that just show how myopic both sides really are, and why we can't get anything accomplished.

[DetroitPlanner]

When in Ireland I spotted a big car behind me, it was a Mercury Sable! I also spotted a Ford larger than that, I had no idea what it was as it is not sold in North America.

[gnome]

What a bunch of sanctimonious ninnies. You people sound like a collection of college sophomores trying their hardest to impress eachother.

Blanket statements of generalities with personal anecdotes peppered in as facts. Ninnies! Embarrassingly shallow twits.

[DetroitPlanner]

gnome, we are the knights that say NI!

[Novine]

The comments being made reveal a lot about the priorities of the people making them. People obsessed with the cleanliness of a city or whether they could drive a car wherever they want aren't people interested in the cultural offerings of various urban centers. They're not interested in living an urban lifestyle and would prefer to live on their 1/4 acre lot within driving distance of a mall. NYC, Chicago and cities are appealing because when you're there, you never run out of things to see, do and experience.

When visitors come to Detroit, after they've hit the highlights, you really have to dig deep to find new things to share with them. If you're satisfied with eating out at Applebee's or consider going to a retread 70s concert at DTE to be high culture, Detroit's dearth of culture offerings, nightlife and interesting neighborhoods is never going to be a concern to you.

[p1acebo]

The comments being made reveal a lot about the priorities of the people making them. People obsessed with the cleanliness of a city or whether they could drive a car wherever they want aren't people interested in the cultural offerings of various urban centers. They're not interested in living an urban lifestyle and would prefer to live on their 1/4 acre lot within driving distance of a mall. NYC, Chicago and cities are appealing because when you're there, you never run out of things to see, do and experience.

When visitors come to Detroit, after they've hit the highlights, you really have to dig deep to find new things to share with them. If you're satisfied with eating out at Applebee's or consider going to a retread 70s concert at DTE to be high culture, Detroit's dearth of culture offerings, nightlife and interesting neighborhoods is never going to be a concern to you.

I get your point but Detroit definitely has more to offer than Applebee's, come on now...

[poobert]

[QUOTE=Novine;314858]When visitors come to Detroit, after they've hit the highlights, you really have to dig deep to find new things to share with them. [QUOTE]

That's an interesting point. Metro Detroit can be pretty entertaining for a week or so, but then outside sitting in a bar watching the game you have to really do research to find something stimulating to do.

We just had some friends move in from New Orleans. Both lived in major cities growing up. Both are HIGHLY educated. They, predictably, chose to live in Detroit. A month later I'm pretty much out of things to show them. Given that they're bright people they understand the devastation of Detroit but the general lack of activity astounds them. What they find most baffling are our suburbs, though - how boundless and bland they are. They both seem really unhappy here. I'm sure they won't last long. Good luck all of you falling back on your "We have squirrels and sometimes you're stuck here cuz of your job" mantra. Last I checked there weren't that many jobs for the havin', anymore.

And all you bitching about how this is divisive and not helpful - first of all, this is an honest discussion that actually requires looking in a mirror, something we're afraid to have in this region. Second of all if we as a region can't rally around TRANSIT and the DIA - that those things should be SO controvertial here where elsewhere they'd be a no brainer, well, there is no indication of ever turning this thing around. Get pissed at your elected officals for being such backwater assholes and write some letters.

[BrushStart]

How can there be any argument that people gravitate toward better cities? It's a stupid question with an obvious answer. Trying to convince people to fall in love with Metro Detroit is like trying to force someone to drink spoiled milk.

By and large, the only people coming to Detroit are those who want to start from scratch and build something new from the ground up. For anyone looking for a region with turn-key conditions, forget this area. The fact is, you have to WANT to live here in order to rationalize it. I mean, really want it.

Detroit's downtown core is coming back and becoming more attractive, but it still doesn't compare to regions of even half the size. The rest of the city is mostly gap-toothed in various states of abandonment with some very beautiful neighborhoods sprinkled in-between, but there is no connectivity between them.

Detroit does have some nice suburbs, but by-and-large, they are the same as those I've seen in other regions. Many of Detroit's suburbs are also on the decline and property values in the dumpster. In this regard, there is nothing extraordinary about suburban Detroit. It is not attracting anyone. People who desire auto-centric suburban living can reside almost anywhere suburban USA and get the same experience minus the extreme racial tensions, lousy economy, and decrepit urban core.

The key to convincing people to come to Detroit and like it is to convince them of the opportunity found in rebuilding it. It not only makes for a feel-good story, but people value their ability to accomplish things that would not be possible in other places. This is true for everyone across the spectrum. Dan Gilbert sees the opportunity to build a real estate empire downtown. Urban pioneers see the chance to own a 5,000 sq ft historic home with a library and solarium on a teacher's salary. Entrepreneurs see the opportunity to start a new company and be the first to market, even in otherwise established areas. In Detroit, small businesses can beat out the otherwise dominate chain stores.

For those of us who are from the Detroit region, many of us have chosen to stay out of a sense of pride and loyalty to the city's history and the legacy of greatness that we have heard about. It took a lot of sweat to make the Detroit that was, and it will take even more to make Detroit the city that will be. That's pretty much why I stuck around anyways.

[rex]

Because i really care what a bunch of europeans think

[gameguy56]

Because i really care what a bunch of europeans think

Metro Detroit is hemorrhaging population. Your fellow Americans have already spoken.

[rex]

and still not a solitary ufck is being given on my end. I don't even disagree with them. As soon as I'm done with grad school I'll probably be out too.