Are suburbanites aware of how unattractive living in Metro-Detroit is to outsiders?

[Detroitnerd]

Not really likely. I'll wait until you get your ass beat a few times in another 10 years or so and robbed. I bet then you may discover what I am talking about.

What? Somebody kicked your ass? I have no idea why! You seem such a sweet, agreeable person!

Have a nice day!

[townonenorth]

What? Somebody kicked your ass? I have no idea why! You seem such a sweet, agreeable person!

Have a nice day!

No, it was my mother. Any other questions?

[townonenorth]

I could. Maybe someday I might. To somebody I thought was going to listen. But since you aren't going to, I'll do something more rewarding with my time.

Have a nice day!

Because you can't explain it, so now you play dumb. Priceless.

[Detroitnerd]

Because you can't explain it, so now you play dumb. Priceless.

Aww, poor little troll. No food for you ...

[Detroitnerd]

townonenorth: But I wanted to keep trolling!

[Detroitnerd]

townonenorth:Waaaahhh! Why won't anyone play with me? Waaaahhh!

[poobert]

I noticed that you've mentioned the Nautical Mile twice so far on this thread. Maybe it's going back to my childhood days when my friends and I would ride our bikes and try to go fishing and be kicked out every time in Grosse Pointe and St. Clair Shores. I personally think places like the Nautical Mile are part of the problem with the area. There's an attitude throughout the area that says, "This is OUR water and you're not welcome here unless you own a boat or a canal home. Oh sure you can look but don't come too close" Hell, if a person from another place went driving down Jefferson in St. Clair Shores, the only way he could tell that there was a lake there was to see all the stores selling boats and boat- related stuff. You can't even see the lake!

Yeah, it's bizarre. I went to the "Nautical Mile" to eat at Fishbones for the first time...thinking it would be on the water. Never actually saw the lake, just acres of parking in the back.

In Grosse Pointe every inch of waterfront that doesn't have a house in front of it has signage with a laundry list of things you can't do there, including "loitering" which basically covers even just standing there. It's very clear that the water is for the rich there. I still loiter there anyway. What are they going to do, kill me?

The riverwalk is a step in the right direction, but it really should extend from Belle Isle to Riverside Park, like, yesterday.

[townonenorth]

Detroitnerd, that's a good picture of you.

[Detroitnerd]

Detroitnerd, that's a good picture of you.

You know they're pictures of you, so you deny it lamely. Priceless.

[townonenorth]

You know they're pictures of you, so you deny it lamely. Priceless.

You WOULD know lame, intimately.

[townonenorth]

Fine then. One of you.

[Detroitnerd]

Yeah, it's bizarre. I went to the "Nautical Mile" to eat at Fishbones for the first time...thinking it would be on the water. Never actually saw the lake, just acres of parking in the back.

In Grosse Pointe every inch of waterfront that doesn't have a house in front of it has signage with a laundry list of things you can't do there, including "loitering" which basically covers even just standing there. It's very clear that the water is for the rich there. I still loiter there anyway. What are they going to do, kill me?

The riverwalk is a step in the right direction, but it really should extend from Belle Isle to Riverside Park, like, yesterday.

Getting back to the purpose of this thread: This might be another one of those things that Pointers are tone-deaf to when it comes to how people from outside our region view us. I'm just imagining that visitors would appreciate a space that is welcoming to outsiders, not exclusive, where you're invited into a community to explore it. I think of visiting places like Tarrytown, Ossining and Croton-on-Hudson and it made for great walking and sightseeing even in those Hudson River Valley towns. And I think highly of that part of the country for those reasons. But, to a visitor to the region, wouldn't it seem cold and snobby?

[rooms222]

Here is the Glamour France cover about Detroit mentioned previously. I have access to the electronic version of the magazine, and will try to post a summary.

[swingline]

I don't think that's true at all. Regionalism isn't a necessary reciepe for success. Nor is public support for high culture.

Successful cities are often less regonalized than those in Michigan. NYC has a metro area that spans four states, and there's no degree of cooperation whatsoever. There are no suburban dollars going to the MET or MOMA. A typical suburbanite in CT or PA would laugh if you asked to raise their local taxes to fund an expansion of the MET.

SF, DC, Boston, etc. all seem to be, if anything, less regionalized than SE Michigan. DC spans three states. the Bay Area is a giant patchwork of competing cities, and Boston is a tiny island in a sea of centuries-old established towns and villages.

Postcollegiate types don't move to Brooklyn or San Francisco because of regionalism or high culture.

They move primary because of jobs, and secondarily, because of the urban environment [[appeals of urbanism itself, massive concentration of dating partners, following their college friends, cities are trendy, etc.).

But, first, they need a job. So, for example, New Orleans is cool and has an interesting urban environment, but without a strong professional market, it doesn't attract many outsiders.

Of course people don't move somewhere because of regionalism. I didn't suggest that at all. What I did suggest is that only a fool complains about paying for regional assets like transit and cultural attractions and then complains when the absence of such things contributes to their children moving to someplace else, in part, to enjoy such amenities.

As for the concept of regionalism in general, if SE Michigan hopes to compete in this century, regional cooperation on multiple levels will be a necessity. Gorgeous large lot subdivisions in Northville and Oakland Twp. won't attract talent and capital. And the go it alone, pull themselves up by the bootstraps argument directed towards the current Detroit underclass might produce results in say 20-30 years, but probably not. We have to figure something out together even if the solution doesn't directly benefit each one of us individually.

[mwilbert]

SF, DC, Boston, etc. all seem to be, if anything, less regionalized than SE Michigan. DC spans three states. the Bay Area is a giant patchwork of competing cities, and Boston is a tiny island in a sea of centuries-old established towns and villages.

I really think that depends on what you are looking at. For instance, they all have real regional mass transit. I'm most familiar with Boston, where essentially all the transit is run by the MBTA, the local park system is primarily run by the state [[formerly MDC, now DCR), as is the airport and port [[Massport), and the water system [[formerly MDC, now MWRA). The zoo is run by ZooNewEngland. The main art museum is private, as is the main science museum. So I would say that Boston is probably not a good example of your thesis.

[ordinary]

Yeah, it's bizarre. I went to the "Nautical Mile" to eat at Fishbones for the first time...thinking it would be on the water. Never actually saw the lake, just acres of parking in the back.

In Grosse Pointe every inch of waterfront that doesn't have a house in front of it has signage with a laundry list of things you can't do there, including "loitering" which basically covers even just standing there. It's very clear that the water is for the rich there. I still loiter there anyway. What are they going to do, kill me?

The riverwalk is a step in the right direction, but it really should extend from Belle Isle to Riverside Park, like, yesterday.

Behind Fishbones if you take a little walk, is the 9 Mile Pier. It's one of the last places in the area where you can enjoy a little space that's not all "prim and proper". If you look at a map of Lake St. Clair, it's one of the longest things sticking out into the lake. Now the bastards [[whoever that is) have restricted it and made it more difficult to access. I see border patrol in that area a lot. What the hell are we so afraid of?

I think the region has done a poor job of making the waterfront accessible to the public. Here's your 50 feet of lakefront peasant! Enjoy . . . but not too much. Mind the laundry list!

The riverwalk is beautiful. It gives me a little hope.

[maverick1]

Wow. I really didn't expect this thread to turn into this. I wanted to get a general understanding of how the Metro-Detroit suburbs perceive themselves nationally. By reading the comments I think I got my answer. It seems the same mentality I see in Detroit proper is also in the suburbs. smh. I don't know how long this fight has been going on in this region but I realize that there is a battle here between the provincial and cosmopolitan residents. It just sucks because unlike other metropolitan areas we have the potential to be world-class if we can get out of our own way. Hopefully there are citizens [[Gen X and younger) that are willing to take leadership positions in this area. It's pretty obvious from this thread and from what I see day to day that too many people are stuck in the 70s and 80s while our position of relevance sinks lower and lower.

[mwilbert]

Well, although the series of somewhat insulting pictures was somewhat atypical, it isn't at all surprising that the thread turned into what it did. A lot happened to get Detroit into the position it is now in, and that gives people a lot to pick and choose from in order to create a narrative that suits them. Once people start talking about perceptions, they move to reality and then history.

In my view though, the big problem isn't that people can't agree on the past; it is that they can't agree on the present or future.