Belle Isle as a State Park? [UPDATE: Snyder Withdraws Offer]

**atl_runner** · April-09-12, 11:19 AM

It's obviously going to take some time for people to understand that the free ride is over. Not just in Detroit, but everywhere. Taxes pay for essentials these days, and parks are not on the essentials list. I pay $25 per year to park at a very small National Forest site, where all I do is run. I don't use it for anything else. The thing is, they are always maintaining it, adding small bridges where water run off damages the path, etc. It's $25.. really, I can't tell you how small of an amount $25 is without coming off like an ass. For State of Michigan residents, you will pay $10, for the same privilege, at a 1000 x nicer location, plus all the other State parks. I don't get the fuss at all. This has to be done. Has to. There is no other way around it. Personally, I think the fee should have been higher, which would maybe lead to making it a truly world class park. This is a no brainer. State run or city run, paying a fee not only makes sense, it's the right thing to do. Period. There is no other side to this debate.

**Gistok** · April-09-12, 11:21 AM

Good idea DP...

Maybe the state needs to dredge part of Scott Middle Ground, to the north of the island... some parts of it are only 3 ft. deep... a boating hazzard during low water periods. When looking at nautical maps of the area to the east of the bridge, I've often wondered if the water currents are real treacherous in that area... with the water depth at 30+ feet towards the land side, and again 30+ feet nearer the island... but only around 3 ft. deep in between.

**poobert** · April-09-12, 12:08 PM

It is about damn time.

It is clear the city does try and does an almost passable job of "maintaining" Belle Isle. I know the leadership. While they're not visionaries, and I don't think particularly talented or insightful, they're good people. However their resources are streched to the limit.
There isn't a Belle Isle "fund". It all comes out of the ever-shrinking recreation budget. And as others have pointed out, that while Belle Isle is in okay shape [[and I emphasize okay as opposed to 'good') the rest of the parks are in absolute shambles. To call them parks is a farce. Even if you hate this idea, this will free up some of the Rec money to maintain the rest of the parks.

For whatever freakish reason, the Conant bus onto Belle Isle was cut under Kwame. Now it just stops at the Boulevard and Jefferson [[and usually just sits there). Now I'm sure JoAnn Watson is going to have tons of absolutely selfless heartfelt non-politically-motivated concerns about the poor getting onto Belle Isle - how about running that damn bus back on the island? Just get stickers for the Conant buses.

Not sure of the legalese, but non-profits and OUR WONDERFUL STOREFRONT PREACHERS could work out some arrangement or fundraising to get those passes to those who can least afford them, too.

Time for some creative solutions, not the same damn status quo and whining. This is happening. Get over it and move on.

**Jason** · April-09-12, 01:13 PM

Yeah, iirc about half of the recreation department's money goes to Belle Isle. This would free up a lot of money.

I'm not sure how great of an idea a one time $10 fee is though. $10 and the hassle of a pass and all that might discourage casual visitors, and it's not really very much money either. Plus a fair number of people will already have the pass and won't be paying extra. So I'm not sure how much money the state would get from this.

But in threads discussing this issue in the past, we figured out, based on the visitor numbers, that even just a 50 cent entrance fee for vehicles would raise a ton of money. I forget how much but it was a shocking amount. But at the same time 50 cents is simple and easy and not discouraging for either casual or frequent visitors.

The nice thing about the state taking it over though, is that the state parks will have more of a presence in the city, and more Detroiters having the state park passes might encourage them to take advantage of other state parks.

**Hypestyles** · April-09-12, 02:43 PM

-- more working, clean bathrooms needed. More security patrols, including plainsclothes. Enforce fines for littering. If there is a "re-vision belle isle" initiative, it can put various unemployed people to work..

**Flintoid** · April-09-12, 03:39 PM

I have to agree with corktownyuppie on this. Who cares who runs Belle Isle as long as it is in good condition? If people are coming to the park to enjoy themselves, I doubt they care if the State of Michigan or City of Detroit is on the sign, as long as it is a beautiful place. And I trust the state on this judging by not only what they did with Milliken State Park but also their commitment to the Globe Trade Building. It's in the best interests of the DNR to have another amazing state park right next to what is supposed to become the proverbial front door for the park system [[Globe Bldg.) The quicker this can happen the better. And since I already purchase the Recreation Passport, it couldn't be better!

**mikeg19** · April-09-12, 04:29 PM

Originally Posted by 313WX

Couldn't the city accomplish the same thing?

Why does the state have to come in and take over the park?

I'm fairly certain the powers at be in this city couldn't keep a pet hamster alive. Why give them another thing to mismanage?

**Mark Smiles** · April-09-12, 07:44 PM

I am not sure the State is the best option here.

I think the Huron-Clinton Metropark Authority should be tasked with this park.

Is there any thing they have done that isn't first class?

They could manage the park with a long range vision, and let's face it, the State can barely keep their parks open.

Well? Am I all wet here?

**Gistok** · April-09-12, 08:39 PM

Originally Posted by Mark Smiles

I am not sure the State is the best option here.

I think the Huron-Clinton Metropark Authority should be tasked with this park.

Is there any thing they have done that isn't first class?

They could manage the park with a long range vision, and let's face it, the State can barely keep their parks

Well? Am I all wet here?

No, but about 20-25 years ago HCMA was in contact with Detroit in regards to running the park... they were rebuffed.... and have not been back since.

**Novine** · April-09-12, 10:57 PM

I would like to think that the state will do a better job of running Belle Isle than the city. But some people have a distorted sense of the health of the state park system by what's been done at the Riverfront. The state park system has been underfunded for decades and I don't think the state parks have gotten any state money in years. The new Recreation Passport system has finally gotten some dollars back to the DNR for park improvements. But there's a massive backlog of deferred maintenance that needs to be addressed. The state's not going to have a lot of money to plow into Belle Isle and the idea that the state can afford to spend a lot of money on fixing up Belle Isle or paying for improvements doesn't match up with the resources that the DNR actually has available for state parks.

**Johnnny5** · April-10-12, 11:38 AM

Originally Posted by Mark Smiles

I am not sure the State is the best option here.

I think the Huron-Clinton Metropark Authority should be tasked with this park.

Is there any thing they have done that isn't first class?

They could manage the park with a long range vision, and let's face it, the State can barely keep their parks open.

Well? Am I all wet here?

I agree that the Metro Parks would have been a better fit, but apparently they are not interested in taking on the challenge. Also, since the state changed to a $10 user fee the entry fees charged by the Metro Parks system are much higher in comparison. I purchased a 2012 combination Oakland County/Metro Parks sticker a few weeks back and it cost $49! Then I still had to purchase an additional $30 sticker for my boat and will probably end up having to buy another $30 boat launch sticker for the small trailer I use to haul my kayak. Now $10 for the ability to use every State Park and boat launch in Michigan sounds like a absolute bargain!

**Richard** · April-11-12, 08:56 PM

The state is already getting ready to turn the shipyards into a state park spending millions would this not create somewhat of a conflict ?

**Gistok** · April-11-12, 10:07 PM

Originally Posted by Richard

The state is already getting ready to turn the shipyards into a state park spending millions would this not create somewhat of a conflict ?

How so? They have 100 State Parks around the lower and upper peninsula. One more to add to the total list. Just because the 2 newest are near each other shouldn't matter.

**MSUguy** · April-19-12, 05:00 PM

I'm wondering what will the new Bell Isle Conservancy's role be in the park's future?

**Ray1936** · April-19-12, 05:34 PM

Originally Posted by milesdriven

As an Ohio resident, it will cost me $8/day, or $29/year for a parks passport. That's enough to make me think twice before visiting the island.

Well, for my money, ANYTHING in Michigan is worth five times of ANYTHING in Ohio. Except for the Ohio River valley, it's the most boring landscape outside of western Nebraska I've ever seen.

**Vic01** · December-04-12, 05:26 AM

any news on this?

**dmike76** · December-04-12, 07:45 AM

There hasn't been anything in the mainstream news lately that I've seen. I was at d:hive a couple of weeks ago and the woman there seemed pretty convinced that it is going to happen. I would assume D:Hive has SOME inside info.

**Hypestyles** · December-04-12, 09:41 AM

I suspect the proposal's DOA amidst all the other chaos in the pushback against the consent agreement, etc.

**corktownyuppie** · January-20-13, 01:57 AM

Not DOA. Quite the opposite. This is going forward. Probably by end of month.

**MSUguy** · January-20-13, 09:29 AM

Detroit Mayor Dave Bing, Gov. Rick Snyder and a majority of the Detroit City Council are on the verge of an agreement to have Belle Isle operated as a Michigan state park, city and state officials have told the Free Press.
City Council may vote on the plan as early as Jan. 29; a public hearing is expected Thursday.
Key elements of the proposal, which would save the City of Detroit as much as $8 million a year in operating costs, would include a lease arrangement with 10-year renewal periods, according to officials who asked not to be quoted because some details are still being negotiated.
The city would continue to own the 985-acre island and would be able to opt out of the lease at the time of any renewal period. The Michigan Department of Natural Resources would operate it and charge a $10 annual entry fee for motorists.

http://www.freep.com/article/2013012...text|FRONTPAGE

**401don** · January-20-13, 10:09 AM

So did Clowncil get any significant changes or was it just the usual grandstanding?

**MSUguy** · January-20-13, 11:53 AM

Originally Posted by 401don

So did Clowncil get any significant changes or was it just the usual grandstanding?

I believe the first lease had 30 year renewals, instead 10 and it'll looks they get a guarantee on the amount that would be invested in improvements another thing that the first proposal lacked.

**Flintoid** · January-20-13, 12:26 PM

Come on clowncil, let this be your last hurrah to help the city before the EM comes in. Fingers crossed. This would be FANTASTIC for Belle Isle and the City. Also, I hope any deal includes reestablishing DDOT service to the island for those who don't have a car by choice or by necessity.

**Gistok** · January-20-13, 01:30 PM

If they got a better deal out of this for the city... well then they deserve some credit...

**mwilbert** · January-20-13, 04:17 PM

Originally Posted by Gistok

If they got a better deal out of this for the city... well then they deserve some credit...

Agreed, although I think the atmospherics around the original discussion were a bit over-the-top, but I guess that is just what you have to expect from the Council.