Oakland Cty Commissioner: High Gas Prices Better for Economy

[Novine]

"Taxes in Birmingham are really, really high compared to "peer cities", and residents believe Birmingham schools and services are the same or worse."

Care to cite some numbers that show this?

[Bham1982]

"Taxes in Birmingham are really, really high compared to "peer cities", and residents believe Birmingham schools and services are the same or worse."

Care to cite some numbers that show this?

Birmingham Schools trail Bloomfield Schools on most measures [[state test scores, SAT/ACT scores, admittance to top universities, etc.). Unlike Bloomfield, Birmingham students don't have an IB option [[Bloomfield has International Academy). This is a big deal in a community with many temporary non-U.S. residents [[mostly Germans and Italians working in the automobile industry).

Taxes in Birmingham are, by any measure, high. Compare to Bloomfield, Troy, Rochester. There are all kinds of questionable expenses, based on delusions of civic grandeur.

Instead of selling an empty school for millions [[they had offers from private schools), they spent millions to tear it down and build a little-used park. Across the street from an existing park.

They tore up a well-used downtown park to build a Rolls Royce of a little-used civic plaza.

They have five [[!) city parking garages, all free and half-empty, but still want to build more. Underground, of course, for extra wastefullness.

They used city money to buy an empty hotel, as if the city should be in the hospitality business. They tore it down, and now the site sits empty, generating no taxes.

Lots of other examples of civic waste. They think Birmingham should be a Midwest Mini-Manhattan, and just don't get the idea of organic growth.

[corktownyuppie]

Birmingham Schools trail Bloomfield Schools on most measures [[state test scores, SAT/ACT scores, admittance to top universities, etc.). Unlike Bloomfield, Birmingham students don't have an IB option [[Bloomfield has International Academy). This is a big deal in a community with many temporary non-U.S. residents [[mostly Germans and Italians working in the automobile industry).

Taxes in Birmingham are, by any measure, high. Compare to Bloomfield, Troy, Rochester. There are all kinds of questionable expenses, based on delusions of civic grandeur.

Instead of selling an empty school for millions [[they had offers from private schools), they spent millions to tear it down and build a little-used park. Across the street from an existing park.

They tore up a well-used downtown park to build a Rolls Royce of a little-used civic plaza.

They have five [[!) city parking garages, all free and half-empty, but still want to build more. Underground, of course, for extra wastefullness.

They used city money to buy an empty hotel, as if the city should be in the hospitality business. They tore it down, and now the site sits empty, generating no taxes.

Lots of other examples of civic waste. They think Birmingham should be a Midwest Mini-Manhattan, and just don't get the idea of organic growth.

I'm not anti-suburbs at all...but wouldn't it make more sense of Metro Detroiters focused their efforts on making downtown Detroit mini-Manhattan? If the whole region pooled their resources it really could be great. And rather than having 37 different mini-downtowns, we could have one really nice one.

I know I'm biased...but even with all the wealth in Birmingham, you couldn't possibly support 30 different high-rises and hotels. Let alone a mini-Manhattan.

[Bham1982]

I'm not anti-suburbs at all...but wouldn't it make more sense of Metro Detroiters focused their efforts on making downtown Detroit mini-Manhattan? If the whole region pooled their resources it really could be great. And rather than having 37 different mini-downtowns, we could have one really nice one.

Yes, I think you're right. It would make more sense to concentrate resources downtown.

For example, the Townsend Hotel is the celebrity hotel for Metro Detroit. Lady Gaga or whomever stays there, not downtown. If you didn't have the Townsend, perhaps you would have a stronger downtown luxury hotel market.

There have also been some very high-end condos [[mostly empty, though). I'm talking $3 million asking prices and not even particuarly large units, which is insane in the Midwest. Maybe some of that condo activity could be shifted downtown.

Then there's the restaurant/shopping scene. Lots of high end restaurants with an urban feel. It isn't crazy to think that some of this urban commerce comes at the expense of downtown Detroit.

[iheartthed]

Yes, I think you're right. It would make more sense to concentrate resources downtown.

For example, the Townsend Hotel is the celebrity hotel for Metro Detroit. Lady Gaga or whomever stays there, not downtown. If you didn't have the Townsend, perhaps you would have a stronger downtown luxury hotel market.

There have also been some very high-end condos [[mostly empty, though). I'm talking $3 million asking prices and not even particuarly large units, which is insane in the Midwest. Maybe some of that condo activity could be shifted downtown.

Then there's the restaurant/shopping scene. Lots of high end restaurants with an urban feel. It isn't crazy to think that some of this urban commerce comes at the expense of downtown Detroit.

Hence my comment in the other thread about more centralized planning in Metro Detroit.

Birmingham is an interesting case. On a micro level, I can see why a local government would want that type of stuff, but on a macro level [[meaning metropolitan wide perspective) it doesn't really make much sense for the long term. Birmingham's downtown rivals Ann Arbor, yet Ann Arbor has over 5 times the population of Birmingham, not to mention room to grow. Without some annexing, Birmingham will probably not grow much larger in population than it is now... Unless it's willing to sacrifice some of the characteristics that has made it attractive to the people who live there now [[i.e. increase density).

Then there is the regional perspective... I don't think there is much economic spin-off to decentralizing your urban amenities. An entertainment/retail/residential hybrid district 14 miles from your core probably doesn't contribute much to the economic bottom line when the core is in tatters. Birmingham's property values would probably be as high or higher if downtown Detroit was solid, and Bham was a bedroom community with a commuter rail station.

[Det_ard]

I'm not anti-suburbs at all...but wouldn't it make more sense of Metro Detroiters focused their efforts on making downtown Detroit mini-Manhattan? If the whole region pooled their resources it really could be great. And rather than having 37 different mini-downtowns, we could have one really nice one.

I know I'm biased...but even with all the wealth in Birmingham, you couldn't possibly support 30 different high-rises and hotels. Let alone a mini-Manhattan.

Your right if you're looking at it from a SimCity perspective, but in the real world each individual makes their own decisions and those in aggregate result in Birmingham the way it is, and Detroit the way it is.

People who are willing to pay $200 - $300/sqft want excellent safety, schools, city services and amenities now, not when another 10,000 like-minded people hypothetically decide to move in next to them.

[antongast]

Unlike Bloomfield, Birmingham students don't have an IB option [[Bloomfield has International Academy).

IA isn't a Bloomfield Hills school, it's just physically located there. The Birmingham school district has shares in IA, and can send as many students there as they own shares. Same with Bloomfield Hills, Berkley, Royal Oak, and all the other districts that bought into IA at whatever level.

[Bham1982]

IA isn't a Bloomfield Hills school, it's just physically located there.

I know, but it was founded and housed by Bloomfield Hills schools, and BH kids can attend [[as can other Oakland schools in a consortium).

Birmingham District students can't presently attend, and this has been a sore spot among some parents.

[antongast]

I know, but it was founded and housed by Bloomfield Hills schools, and BH kids can attend [[as can other schools in a consortium). Birmingham schools can't presently attend.

I know for a fact that Birmingham was in the consortium five years ago, and they're on the list of consortium districts that I linked to in that post. Maybe they pulled out recently and someone forgot to update the website or something, I don't know.

[jerrytimes]

"Taxes in Birmingham are really, really high compared to "peer cities", and residents believe Birmingham schools and services are the same or worse."

Care to cite some numbers that show this?

Too funny. Drive through Birmingham and you will see what those taxes pay for. The city is fantastic