Trayvon Martin: Amazed no one has posted this....

**Zacha341** · May-17-12, 11:28 PM

One of the outworkings of the Travon Martin case [[however you feel about the guilt or innocence of Zimmerman) is the discussion of repealing the 'Stand Your Ground' laws which are in many states including Michigan:

'Stand Your Ground' Law Repeal Proposed

http://www.myfoxdetroit.com/dpp/news...ed-20120517-ms

**Johnnny5** · May-18-12, 07:46 AM

Originally Posted by firstandten

Thats why its important to stay informed on what policies these right-wing groups like the NRA are pushing in your state and in Washington. They count on flying under the radar when they push these laws in the various states

These laws did anything but "fly under the radar" when they were passed in Florida and in Michigan. I lived in Florida when this law was passed and had returned to Michigan by the time similar legislation was approved here. In both states the law received overwhelming support from the general public and passed through the legislature with support from both parties.

One incident does not make these types of laws a failure. They were written to protect law abiding citizens from the acts of criminals, and that's exactly what they do.

http://dailycaller.com/2012/04/01/st...-records-show/

**Peppermint Patty** · May-18-12, 09:20 AM

Originally Posted by Johnnny5

These laws did anything but "fly under the radar" when they were passed in Florida and in Michigan. I lived in Florida when this law was passed and had returned to Michigan by the time similar legislation was approved here. In both states the law received overwhelming support from the general public and passed through the legislature with support from both parties.

One incident does not make these types of laws a failure. They were written to protect law abiding citizens from the acts of criminals, and that's exactly what they do.

http://dailycaller.com/2012/04/01/st...-records-show/

Zimmerman was not a law-abiding citizen. He was a menace to society...also known as a thug. Plus, he was mentally unstable and had poor decision-making and socialization skills.

**Meddle** · May-18-12, 09:21 AM

That's your opinion.

Others feel the same way about Martin.

**Peppermint Patty** · May-18-12, 09:25 AM

Originally Posted by Meddle

That's your opinion.

Others feel the same way about Martin.

OK...but Trayvon was not violent. The Jewish/Hispanic White male was the only violent individual in this whole criminal act. That is on record as fact.

**Meddle** · May-18-12, 09:55 AM

Originally Posted by Peppermint Patty

OK...but Trayvon was not violent.
That is on record as fact.

No, it isn't.

The 'facts' all seem to indicate just the opposite in this particular incident.

**Peppermint Patty** · May-18-12, 10:16 AM

Originally Posted by Meddle

No, it isn't.

The 'facts' all seem to indicate just the opposite in this particular incident.

Laughable! Zimmerman's history is well-documented. Trayvon was a mischievous child but nothing he engaged in was of a violent nature.

Either way it goes, Zimmerman will not be footloose and fancy free. In the end, this will cost him more than his fantasies of wanting to be a cop. Now we know which "career path" most impulsive racists choose.

**Johnnny5** · May-18-12, 10:21 AM

Originally Posted by Peppermint Patty

Zimmerman was not a law-abiding citizen. He was a menace to society...also known as a thug. Plus, he was mentally unstable and had poor decision-making and socialization skills.

Peppermint Patty, I'm just curious, but what if Trayvon Martin had been a white 17 year old and Zimmerman a 28 year old black man? Would that change your opinion on who was at fault?

IMO race actually has very little to do with this tragedy, but everything to do with the vast amount of publicity it has received. From what I have read about George Zimmerman he probably would have been just as quick to consider a unfamiliar white kid as suspicious.

None of us know exactly what happened, and it is arrogant ignorance to claim that we do. The one thing I do know that it's going to be very difficult for the prosecution to get 12 jurors to convict Zimmerman of 2nd degree murder. He may very well be guilty of it, but there are so many questions surrounding the shooting that it will not take much for some of the jurors to see reasonable doubt.

**gazhekwe** · May-18-12, 10:26 AM

If Trayvon Martin had been a white 17 year old walking home from 7-11 talking to his girlfriend on the phone, Zimmerman might not have given him a second look. He knew there were white teens living in the neighborhood, and his actions would have reflected the expectation that the youth belonged there.

**Meddle** · May-18-12, 10:42 AM

Originally Posted by Johnnny5

The one thing I do know that it's going to be very difficult for the prosecution to get 12 jurors to convict Zimmerman of 2nd degree murder. He may very well be guilty of it, but there are so many questions surrounding the shooting that it will not take much for some of the jurors to see reasonable doubt.

Have you seen the recent information and pictures?

I wouldn't be surprised to see a dismissal.

**Johnnny5** · May-18-12, 10:52 AM

Originally Posted by gazhekwe

If Trayvon Martin had been a white 17 year old walking home from 7-11 talking to his girlfriend on the phone, Zimmerman might not have given him a second look. He knew there were white teens living in the neighborhood, and his actions would have reflected the expectation that the youth belonged there.

The subdivision is mixed race and several of Zimmerman's next door neighbors are black, so I doubt it was unusual to see black youth in the neighborhood. The fact that Trayvon was not familiar to Zimmerman probably had more to do with his suspicion that his race. Also there had been several recent burglaries where the suspects had been described as black youths, so even if Zimmerman did take Trayvon's race into account that doesn't automatically make it a cut and dry act of racial profiling. [[Which I also have to add may be morally wrong, but is not illegal for a private citizen).

**Johnnny5** · May-18-12, 10:56 AM

Originally Posted by Meddle

Have you seen the recent information and pictures?

I wouldn't be surprised to see a dismissal.

I would not be surprised either, but I honestly hope at this point that that does not happen. Since he's already been charged I think the best thing is for a full and fair trial. Zimmerman and Trayvon's family both deserve to see all the evidence come forward and either clear Zimmerman of wrongdoing or punish him for his actions. Unfortunately, the public is not going to be happy either way.

**Peppermint Patty** · May-18-12, 11:05 AM

Originally Posted by Johnnny5

Peppermint Patty, I'm just curious, but what if Trayvon Martin had been a white 17 year old and Zimmerman a 28 year old black man? Would that change your opinion on who was at fault?

IMO race actually has very little to do with this tragedy, but everything to do with the vast amount of publicity it has received. From what I have read about George Zimmerman he probably would have been just as quick to consider a unfamiliar white kid as suspicious.

None of us know exactly what happened, and it is arrogant ignorance to claim that we do. The one thing I do know that it's going to be very difficult for the prosecution to get 12 jurors to convict Zimmerman of 2nd degree murder. He may very well be guilty of it, but there are so many questions surrounding the shooting that it will not take much for some of the jurors to see reasonable doubt.

Under the same circumstances if a Black 28 year old impulsive rent-a-cop wannabe shot and killed a White 17 year old child innocently walking from the store, I would be outraged and get out and protest for JUSTICE as well. But there would be no need for the protesting, unfortunately, because the Black impulsive rent-a-cop more than likely would have been shot and killed by the police officers upon them realizing that he killed a 17 year old child. IJS!

**Peppermint Patty** · May-18-12, 11:31 AM

Huge Precedents in 'Stand Your Ground?' Will Zimmerman Be Next?

In the case, Dooley walked out of his house to confront a teenager who was skateboarding on the community basketball court, where it wasn't allowed. But before he left his house, Dooley put a gun in the waistband of his pants. Why? Who knows.

David James, 41, a "decorated Air Force veteran" according to news reports, stepped between Dooley and the teen. According to eyewitnesses, Dooley flashed his gun at James, at which point James tried to disarm him. They struggled and James was shot once in the chest -- he died on the scene, in front of his eight-year-old daughter.

Here is the critical comment from the judge's ruling yesterday: "Based on this evidence, the court finds that [[the) defendant was the initial aggressor who provoked the use of force against him by drawing his gun during the argument with Mr. James." [emphasis added]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/martin...trayvon-martin

**Meddle** · May-18-12, 11:41 AM

If you honestly see any parallels between the two cases, I feel sorry for you.

**Zacha341** · May-18-12, 12:35 PM

Thank you... I am curious about the larger agenda here... Ala the baby is going out with the bath water on this if we are not careful to a. not get allergic to these policies because of the Trayvon Martin case, b. find them distasteful soley due to their conservative origins or associations. Recall, Granholm signed in thees laws at one point. Now were are talking of repealing them?

Again I ask: Have Detroiter's benefited from this law over the last year as crime has continued to escalate such as home invasions, car jackings and the like? Do Detroiter's, many of whom are democrats, really care or endorse NRA or the Koch Brothers et al in their use of or access as an 'option', this law? Will Detroiter's and Michigan at large benefit by having this or the "Castle Law" repealed?

Originally Posted by Johnnny5

One incident does not make these types of laws a failure. They were written to protect law abiding citizens from the acts of criminals, and that's exactly what they do.

http://dailycaller.com/2012/04/01/st...-records-show/

**Zacha341** · May-18-12, 01:00 PM

Withstanding the topic at hand and strong feelings regarding it, welcome to DYes Pepperment Patty! I love your handle!

Originally Posted by Peppermint Patty

Zimmerman was not a law-abiding citizen. He was a menace to society...also known as a thug. Plus, he was mentally unstable and had poor decision-making and socialization skills.

**Peppermint Patty** · May-18-12, 02:25 PM

Thanks Zacha341!

**Locke09** · May-18-12, 04:26 PM

Originally Posted by Meddle

If you honestly see any parallels between the two cases, I feel sorry for you.

I'm thinking that the parallel is the question of who was the initial aggressor. And yes, I have read all the latest information.

In this other case, the judge seems to be saying what so many are saying in the Martin/Zimmerman case: "If you initiate the aggression, and someone feels compelled to defend themselves against your aggression or a perceived threat from you, you cannot then claim you were just standing your ground."

If Martin felt threatened by Zimmerman and decided he needed to fight for his life, even if he struck first because Zimmerman was "stalking" him, then Zimmerman might be guilty of at least manslaughter.

He is at least responsible for the altercation taking place in the first place. Can't people at least agree with that?

I keep remembering Zimmerman saying he reached into his jacket for his phone and Martin hit him. What if Martin saw the gun in Zimmerman's waistband the same way Mr. James saw the gun in Dooley's waistband and felt compelled to try and disarm Zimmerman. Or, how did Martin know whether Zimmerman was reaching for a phone or a gun while they are having a dispute?

**Peppermint Patty** · May-18-12, 09:24 PM

Thank you! EXACTLY Locke09!

**Johnnny5** · May-18-12, 10:17 PM

Originally Posted by Zacha341

.
Again I ask: Have Detroiter's benefited from this law over the last year as crime has continued to escalate such as home invasions, car jackings and the like? Do Detroiter's, many of whom are democrats, really care or endorse NRA or the Koch Brothers et al in their use of or access as an 'option', this law? Will Detroiter's and Michigan at large benefit by having this or the "Castle Law" repealed?

"Another Intruder fatally shot"

http://www.detroityes.com/mb/showthr...highlight=shot

"Retired Officer Fires Fatal Shot During Break In"

http://www.detroityes.com/mb/showthr...highlight=shot

**firstandten** · May-18-12, 10:56 PM

Originally Posted by Johnnny5

These laws did anything but "fly under the radar" when they were passed in Florida and in Michigan. I lived in Florida when this law was passed and had returned to Michigan by the time similar legislation was approved here. In both states the law received overwhelming support from the general public and passed through the legislature with support from both parties.

One incident does not make these types of laws a failure. They were written to protect law abiding citizens from the acts of criminals, and that's exactly what they do.

http://dailycaller.com/2012/04/01/st...-records-show/

The problem with this kind of law is bought out in a National District Attorney's symposium back in 2007, numerous concerns were voiced that the law could increase crime. This included criminals using the law as a defense for their crimes, more people carrying guns, and that people would not feel safe if they felt that anyone could use deadly force in a conflict. The report also noticed that the misinterpretation of clues could result in use of deadly force when there was, in fact, no danger. The report specifically notes that racial and ethnic minorities would be at greater risk because of negative stereotypes.

I spoke earlier of a situation in Florida were two people were arguing on a playground basketball court over a basketball game. The arguing got heated and both parties got in each others faces. One of the men felt threatened and threw a punch as a preemptive strike. The one punch killed the man. Because the guy claimed SYG he was not charged. Now if you understand basketball arguments you know they get loud and profane but rarely advances beyond that.

You shouldn't have a law thats left open to interpetation to the extent like SYG. Its too easy to have your sterotypes and fears of people come into play and affect your judgement. Because when that happens, it opens the door to unintended consequences

**Crumbled_pavement** · May-19-12, 02:11 AM

I literally can't believe people are still engaging Meddle in conversation. It's truly comical - if the subject matter wasn't so serious.

**Peppermint Patty** · June-01-12, 02:00 PM

George Zimmurder bond revoked: must surrender within 48 hours!

In a shocking turn, Circuit Judge Kenneth Lester has revoked George Zimmerman's bond in the shooting death of Trayvon Martin. Zimmerman now has 48 hours to turn himself in to authorities.
The decision came after revelations that Zimmerman and his wife may have conspired to lie about thousands of dollars in donations they'd collected before his bond hearing.
http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/...edia-companies

**Crumbled_pavement** · June-01-12, 06:01 PM

Originally Posted by Peppermint Patty

George Zimmurder bond revoked: must surrender within 48 hours!

In a shocking turn, Circuit Judge Kenneth Lester has revoked George Zimmerman's bond in the shooting death of Trayvon Martin. Zimmerman now has 48 hours to turn himself in to authorities.
The decision came after revelations that Zimmerman and his wife may have conspired to lie about thousands of dollars in donations they'd collected before his bond hearing.
http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/...edia-companies

Lie? Zimmerman would never lie. He's an honest straight shooter [[no pun intended

).