Trayvon Martin: Amazed no one has posted this....

**Detroit Stylin** · April-17-12, 05:33 PM

Originally Posted by ejames01

That is a good point. Whether he wanted to kill someone is irrelevant. Zimmerman did want to take the law into his own hands.

Not to mention to answer your second point Trayvon have NO duty to even give him the time of day let alone what he was doing in that neighborhood given that he wasnt a law enforcement officer. Even a cop has to identify himself before you answer a singe question...

**Meddle** · April-17-12, 05:59 PM

Originally Posted by ejames01

He confronted the kid ....

We don't know that.

**Meddle** · April-17-12, 06:01 PM

Originally Posted by rb336

He's told by police that they don't want him to do ANYTHING else, ...

That's not true. A call taker stated 'We don't need you to do that". Nothing more. The call taker is not a police officer and has no authority.

**Meddle** · April-17-12, 06:05 PM

Originally Posted by ejames01

Zimmerman did want to take the law into his own hands.

Again, we don't know that. A member of the community is fully entitled to observe what someone else is doing on a public street, watch member or not. It's what people are told to do in regards to crime prevention. If you see someone you don't recognize walking down the street in your neighborhood, it is wise to keep an eye on them either until they leave, you are satisfied they belong there, or police arrive to investigate further.

**rb336** · April-17-12, 06:11 PM

Originally Posted by Meddle

That's not true. A call taker stated 'We don't need you to do that". Nothing more. The call taker is not a police officer and has no authority.

Neither did Zimmerman

**gazhekwe** · April-17-12, 06:57 PM

zimmerman did not simply keep an eye on them either until they leave, you are satisfied they belong there, or police arrive to investigate further.

**Crumbled_pavement** · April-17-12, 07:20 PM

Sad to know that our professional civic employees think so low of us. Although not news to me. I've heard worse stories.

Anyhow, if he didn't post that claiming to represent his employer then it shouldn't be a big deal.

However, I love how some people are so mad that there supposedly is a trial by public opinion to assume Zimmerman is guilty. Those people screaming this at the top of their lungs certainly weren't so calm and patient and willing to wait for the facts to come out in the case of Nidal Malik Hasan. All they need to hear was that he supposedly said "Allahu Akbar" before the shooting and they were ready to convict. In Trayvon's case though, no amount of evidence will ever convince them that Trayvon wasn't some worthless hood who stalked and provoked an altercation with poor harmless little Mr. Zimmerman.

People are funny.

**Johnnny5** · April-17-12, 08:13 PM

Since none of us know exactly what happened how about we consider for a moment that George Zimmerman's version of the events is exactly how everything played out.

Mr. Zimmerman saw a man that he considered suspicious looking, followed him in his vehicle and then on foot. When he lost sight of that man he turned around and while walking back to his vehicle he was confronted by Trayvon, knocked to the ground, thrown into the pavement and only fired his gun in self defense.

---IF--- this is how it actually went down then Trayvon was the first and only person breaking a law. It might be stupid, but it's not against the law to follow or question someone in public.

I know most everyone here does not believe George Zimmerman's account of the incident, but I don't see how anyone can say for sure that it did not happen exactly as he stated.

**Thames** · April-17-12, 08:22 PM

Author of "stand your ground" law: George Zimmerman should probably be arrested for killing Trayvon Martin

It is the fact that Zimmerman ignored the 911 operator's advice not to follow Martin that former Sen. Peaden says disqualifies him from claiming self-defense under the law.

"The guy lost his defense right then," Peaden told the Miami Herald. "When he said 'I'm following him,' he lost his defense."

http://http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-5...rayvon-martin/

**gazhekwe** · April-17-12, 08:22 PM

Following for innocent or evil intent is in the mind of the people involved. Trayvon was afraid of this man following him, or so he told the friend on the phone. Does not make logical sense for him to attack someone who is walking away from him. Also does not match what the phone witness heard.

**ejames01** · April-18-12, 05:15 AM

Originally Posted by Johnnny5

Since none of us know exactly what happened how about we consider for a moment that George Zimmerman's version of the events is exactly how everything played out.

Mr. Zimmerman saw a man that he considered suspicious looking, followed him in his vehicle and then on foot. When he lost sight of that man he turned around and while walking back to his vehicle he was confronted by Trayvon, knocked to the ground, thrown into the pavement and only fired his gun in self defense.

---IF--- this is how it actually went down then Trayvon was the first and only person breaking a law. It might be stupid, but it's not against the law to follow or question someone in public.

I know most everyone here does not believe George Zimmerman's account of the incident, but I don't see how anyone can say for sure that it did not happen exactly as he stated.

Zimmerman's account isn't reasonable, so why should anyone believe it?

**Detwa** · April-18-12, 06:09 AM

Originally Posted by ejames01

Zimmerman's account isn't reasonable, so why should anyone believe it?

Thank you! And that's the crux of all of this - Zimmerman's account makes absolutely no sense, which is why the first detective to interview him WANTED to and TRIED to have him arrested, stating that he didn't believe him! But all of that was brushed under the rug in their efforts to cover up the murder. It boggles my mind how certain people are trying so hard to "consider Zimmerman's side" when its so blatantly full of lies and fantasies! His defenders are just as despicable and disgusting as the killer they're defending.

**vetalalumni** · April-18-12, 04:21 PM

Originally Posted by Pam

I'm not so sure he's a troll. There are actually people out there trying to make Zimmerman into some kind of a hero or NRA poster boy.

A 15 year veteran Florida firefighter, Captain Brian Beckmann, and [[some of) his coworkers have settled in their own minds why George Zimmerman shot Trayvon Martin to death.

Thanks to Detroit Stylin for originally posting the Miami-Herald article.

http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/04/1...stigation.html

... I and my coworkers could rewrite the book on whether our urban youths are victims of racist profiling or products of their failed, sh*tbag, ignorant, pathetic, welfare dependent excuses for parents, ...

They're just misunderstood little church going angels and the ghetto hoodie look doesn't have anything to do with why people wonder if they're about to get jacked by a thug ...

This comes from a salaried veteran civil servant who has sworn to protect the public.

Originally Posted by Crumbled_pavement

Sad to know that our professional civic employees think so low of us. Although not news to me. I've heard worse stories.

Anyhow, if he didn't post that claiming to represent his employer then it shouldn't be a big deal.

...

I agree. We've heard worse stories, but in this case the fire captain publicly volunteered his, shall we say, poor judgement, in writing. This calls into question his ability to serve the public interest in the best manner possible.

Further, veteran Fire Captain Brian Beckmann claimed he and his fellow firefighters [[unionized) could write a book. I'd like to read that book.

**vetalalumni** · April-18-12, 09:05 PM

Originally Posted by Meddle

Again, we don't know that. A member of the community is fully entitled to observe what someone else is doing on a public street, watch member or not. It's what people are told to do in regards to crime prevention. If you see someone you don't recognize walking down the street in your neighborhood, it is wise to keep an eye on them either until they leave, you are satisfied they belong there, or police arrive to investigate further.

Inaccurate!

Ask anyone with an accurate knowledge of civilian oriented neighborhood crime reduction activities. This type of crime prevention is mostly proactive and to a lesser degree, reactive.

Proactive is an attempt to prevent a crime from occurring in the first place. This ranges from security doors and windows [[metal bars) to security lighting, alarms, signage and other measures intended to discourage the criminal opportunist. In some cases people advertise the "beware" idea by arming themselves and walking [[patrolling) their own private property. Watch programs such as Neighborhood Watch are not designed to have people conduct themselves in the manner George Zimmerman allegedly did.

Observe is not synonymous with follow. In the situation in question, follow expanded the simpler act of observation to include wide mobility in order to maintain the state of observing after that which was observed moved out of view.

Trayvon Martin was protected and entitled to:

walk anywhere in the public space of that community
wear any clothing he wanted to, provided it was not in violation of some rule or law
look around to remain constantly aware of his surroundings as he ventured to and from the nearby store
look back at, or even stare or frown at a person following him
not be required to answer to or converse with anyone, especially George Zimmerman [[who is not even a sworn law enforcement official)
expect to be able to innocently and safely walk to and from the local store without being irrationally or unfairly scrutinized or followed
expect that in America, before, during, and after his killing, the law would protect him at least as much as it is protecting his killer, George Zimmerman.

Reactive civilian oriented neighborhood crime reduction activities are in compliance with laws in effect and are:

carefully proscribed with respect to law
after the fact that a crime has already come upon someone
defensive in nature but without a revenge or vigilante component
connected to some proactive measures such as video-taping property, logging serial numbers, and etching property
fully supportive and encouraging of the reporting of all crimes regardless of how insignificant.

Due to following and unfairly suspecting Trayvon Martin, George Zimmerman now finds himself in the position of having to claim self defense. George Zimmerman initiated when he, armed with a loaded gun, left his home [[private property) and proceeded to follow an innocent and unarmed citizen. George Zimmerman's recorded dialogue on the 911 call reveals his thought pattern immediately prior to his shooting and killing of Trayvon Martin.

**gazhekwe** · April-19-12, 01:35 PM

Exactly, Vetal!

I have actually belonged to both Neighborhood Watch and Mobile Watch.

Mobile Watch provides for citizen patrols via marked motor vehicles. At no time is the team authorized to get out of the vehicle to follow someone. If a person being spotted by Mobile Watch flees, the team is supposed to report the activity, location and direction, NOT to get out of the vehicle or chase them in any way.

Mobile Watchers are in constant contact with Police Emergency either directly or via a trained dispatcher.

Neighborhood Watch, otoh, is citizens observing from their own property or in their area. They are expected to remain out of contact with the observed person at all times. Their contact with the police would be by their own phone.

Oh, yes, since both programs are police sponsored, NO weapons is one of the first rules.

**Johnnny5** · April-20-12, 11:20 AM

A photo has been made public showing a closeup of some of the injuries Zimmerman claims to have received the night of the shooting.

http://gma.yahoo.com/warning-graphic...opstories.html

**Detroit Stylin** · April-20-12, 12:04 PM

Originally Posted by Johnnny5

A photo has been made public showing a closeup of some of the injuries Zimmerman claims to have received the night of the shooting.

http://gma.yahoo.com/warning-graphic...opstories.html

You mean the photoshop job that was done when the police surveillance video showed NO signs of injusry, especially to that extent? If his injuries were that bad then Zimmerman should have been in the hospital, had a cat scan done, madd x rays and THEN he would have gone to the station.

I call bullshit and propaganda because I as someone who does design and image editing in photoshop can take a healthy person photo and make them look like they were the victim of over kill too...

its not hard...

**firstandten** · April-20-12, 12:19 PM

Zimmerman's only hope in this case is if his lawyers can muddy the waters with this self defense claim they are going to use. As much as I hate it, it could work due to the lack of witnesses that saw the actual incident.

Personally I don't believe the self defense story, but with many years of jail staring at him, I can't blame him for doing it.

The prosecution on the other hand will have the recreate the incident timelines and movements of TM and GZ to such an extent that reasonable doubt doesn't come into play.

I think its going to be a tough case for the prosecution to win a second degree murder verdict.

**Meddle** · April-20-12, 12:37 PM

Originally Posted by Detroit Stylin

You mean the photoshop job ....

OK, now you're just being silly.

**Meddle** · April-20-12, 12:40 PM

Originally Posted by firstandten

Zimmerman's only hope in this case is if his lawyers can muddy the waters ...

I think its going to be a tough case for the prosecution to win a second degree murder verdict.

The prosecution's only hope is that they can muddy the waters.

I'll agree with your other point though.

----

Bond set at $150,000

Some places will allow you to post 10% cash or surety. Not sure if that applies here.

**firstandten** · April-20-12, 01:10 PM

Originally Posted by Meddle

The prosecution's only hope is that they can muddy the waters.

I'll agree with your other point though.

Don't get it twisted, I think GZ is guilty but the legal system is about what can be proven. The prosecution will lay out its case and it will be a good one but will it satisfy the beyond reasonable doubt standard, thats what I wonder.

Regardless of what happens the civil suit should bankrupt GZ since thats a lesser standard that TM's family lawyers should meet.

**rb336** · April-20-12, 04:10 PM

Originally Posted by Johnnny5

A photo has been made public showing a closeup of some of the injuries Zimmerman claims to have received the night of the shooting.

http://gma.yahoo.com/warning-graphic...opstories.html

That "blood" doesn't even look remotely real

**Detwa** · April-20-12, 04:51 PM

Regardless of any injury he may or may not have on his head, the bigger issue is whether or not he started the fight and forced Trayvon to defend himself, leading to his death. So what if Zimmerman got his ass kicked, Trayvon was standing HIS ground and that makes Zimmerman wrong for killing him. I can't wait for the trial! Zimmerman has shown over and over that he is a liar, he even lied today on the stand when he said he didn't know how old Trayvon was, when he told the 911 operator that he thought the KID looked to be in his late teens. He will lie and say anything to save himself and I can't believe the judge and prosecution didn't pick up on that.

**Johnnny5** · April-20-12, 05:02 PM

Originally Posted by Detwa

Regardless of any injury he may or may not have on his head, the bigger issue is whether or not he started the fight and forced Trayvon to defend himself, leading to his death.

I agree. Hopefully the jury can weigh all the evidence and make a determination one way or the other.

**Kevgoblue** · April-20-12, 06:07 PM

Plus if this photograph showing Zimmerman's "injuries" was legitimate, why did it take so long to show up? If he was bleeding like a stuck pig, why didn't the police take him to the hospital? Why is there no record of his medical treatment?
No shouts of foul by the defense when the video from the police station showing an apparently uninjured GZ walking through the station?

But even if the pics are legitimate, does it matter? It still doesn't change the fact that he followed TM. That he left his vehicle against the direction of the PD and apparently iniated some type of confrontation. It does not change the fact that he shot an unarmed teen. Getting your ass whipped, in a fistfight that you started, still does not justify using lethal force.