Mom Wants Justice after Fatal BP Gas Station Shooting

[trotwood]

He's black silly.

We're never just victims, we're thugs and deserve it somehow.

Sarcasm noted lol. Normally it dismays me no end to have race constantly cited as the cause for things like this. In this case I can't for the life of me see another plausible motivator.
Maybe,as the defendant's lawyer says,there's more to this story but[[imo) as it's laying now this was needless murder!

[Buy American]

It's pretty obvious that when 40 or 50 people are murdered in cold blood in Detroit, women, children, the elderly, young gang members, families of the gang members, women who want to break up with their man....that as long as the crimes are black on black, it's okay.

I say it must be okay because I haven't seen the sign carrying, screaming for blood, racist rhetoric that has presented itself at the gas station at any other crime scene...the most I see are teddy bears and balloons in a makeshift memorial.

I agree with Mark Smiles post above regarding the reaction of Mr. Haynes mother. Of course, a parent doesn't want to lose a child, that is totaly incomprehensible to me....but she is out to "get justice" for her son. Did she offer any apologies to the people that Mr. Haynes terriorized during his home invasions? Did she tell them that justice needs to be served for them in the form of her son getting punished? I doubt it.

I agree with 48091, too.

Murder is murder, but in Detroit the outrage is one sided and those clergy and people standing outside the gas station with their signs referring to a black man being murdered are certainly using the race card to get others riled up. They are actually creating an atmosphere of hatred and it's directed at one particular race instead of them all being outraged at what is going on in Detroit period!!!

[Meddle]

The 23 year old clerk will be spending the prime of his life behind bars, if not his entire life.

Not necessarily. Remember the guy who chased someone off his property and shot him some distance away?

[brizee]

[QUOTE=trotwood;309322]

He's black silly.

We're never just victims, we're thugs and deserve it somehow.[/QUOTE/]


Sarcasim noted lol. Normally it dismays me no end to have race constantly cited as the cause for things like this. In this case I can't for the life of me see another plausible motivator.
Maybe,as the defendant's laywer says,there's more to this story but[[imo) as it's laying now this was needless murder!

It's quite the phenomena.

I frequent other forums and the message is pretty consistent.

You can kill a black kid,against police orders, and go on with your day.

And still some people will absolutely bend over backwards defending the indefensible.

[trotwood]

[QUOTE=brizee;309381]

It's quite the phenomena.

I frequent other forums and the message is pretty consistent.

You can kill a black kid,against police orders, and go on with your day.

And still some people will absolutely bend over backwards defending the indefensible.

How's the saying go:"None are so blind as those who refuse to see"

[eno]

The relationship between the black community in Detroit and those who service it with party stores, independent markets and gas stations begs the question, why doesn't the black community have merchants willing to service their own community.

[downtown_racine]

The relationship between the black community in Detroit and those who service it with party stores, independent markets and gas stations begs the question, why doesn't the black community have merchants willing to service their own community.

Not sure but I recently heard a woman being interviewed on the radio She wrote a book about the subject in Chicago.
http://www.myfoxchicago.com/dpp/good...iment-20120301
http://www.amazon.com/Our-Black-Year.../dp/1610390245

[eno]

Thanks for the background to this troubling dilemma, d_r.

[getmoore]

[QUOTE=brizee;309381]

It's quite the phenomena.

I frequent other forums and the message is pretty consistent.

You can kill a black kid,against police orders, and go on with your day.

And still some people will absolutely bend over backwards defending the indefensible.

So you think both of these incidents are the same? That the race of the black guy in the gas station is the reason he was shot? If I were the parents of that poor child in Florida I would be offended that my child's case was compared to an angry vandalizing threatening ex con! Race is a factor in a LOT of these cases but NOT in all. We need to be able to tell the difference before playing the "race card".

[getmoore]

[QUOTE=trotwood;309382]

How's the saying go:"None are so blind as those who refuse to see"

Yeah, that's the saying. In this case it should be changed to "None so blind as those who refuse to see each individual thing for what it is."

[laurin]

[QUOTE=getmoore;309507]

So you think both of these incidents are the same? That the race of the black guy in the gas station is the reason he was shot? If I were the parents of that poor child in Florida I would be offended that my child's case was compared to an angry vandalizing threatening ex con! Race is a factor in a LOT of these cases but NOT in all. We need to be able to tell the difference before playing the "race card".

Absolutely race is a factor. One can disagree on to what degree that it's a factor- primary, secondary, etc.
It's easy to interject facts after the point. Did the station clerk know that he was ex-con? We know now from the information coming out after the fact. The shooter in the Florida case probably also assumed that the little black boy in his neighborhood at night was a 'thug.' It's not so much about the victim, but the assumptions made by the victimizer that spurred the violence. The boy had skittles and a iced tea and was considered a threat. Race may not have been the deciding factor in the Detroit slaying- as in I'm going to shoot him because he's black, but it more than likely played into the clerk's decision that it was an acceptable thing to do.

I would, however, love to hear how the clerk would have described the situation that led up to his decision to shoot a man in the back on his way out of the store.

As an aside, I really deplore the term 'race card.' I think it's thrown out to dismiss an argument that requires including a different perspective. It's quite condescending.

[313hero]

Blame the victim huh. Or He was a felon anyway. WOW. He lost his life for some petty bull. regardless of his past that shouldnt even be an argument. The clerk had no regard nor respect for his life, therefore they have no respect for NON of their customer's life. so Yeah they should be SHUT DOWN, and it doesnt have to be mandated just STOP SHOPPING THERE THEY HAVE NO RESPECT FOR YOU. Its another gas station across the street. They will be going out of bussiness whether they open up or not. They shouldnt have ANY customers. Unless some of you guys wanna patronize it.

Yes Black PPL Kill other Black PPL everyday. WE DONT LIKE THAT EITHER. Just because it happens dont mean we accept it or like it. The Vast Majority of us HATE it. So the whole "race-Batting" isnt the issue here. The issue is a bussiness in our community dont have ANY respect for its customers. Why shouldnt we want it shut down??? Gosh some of you people kill me

[Meddle]

The issue is a bussiness in our community dont have ANY respect for its customers.

Maybe that's because customers don't respect the businesses.

[laurin]

Maybe that's because customers don't respect the businesses.

What happened to responsibility-- doing what you know to be correct no matter what anyone else does. If we continue with the "he did it too" argument, we're never going show any improvement.

But the businesses still 'respect' the customer's money. There's something to be said for treating your clientele horribly, but still staying to get their money. I support the boycott- bring some other business owner in who will act accordingly. The current owner doesn't have to be at that location anymore than the people who shop there have to patronize him.

I used to live in Detroit and frequented a gas station where upon I noticed the clerk[[s) repeatedly making unwanted comments towards the women [[myself included). So I stopped going there. It was a pain because it was close to the house and didn't charge extra for credit cards, but it was a necessary choice. Did I deserve to be disrespected just others may have acted in a disrespectful manner or even welcomed the comments? Careful with that broad brush. Things like that don't happen in a vacuum where only the deserving get crappy treatment. It's a culture of disrespect.

[Bham1982]

Yeah they should be SHUT DOWN, and it doesnt have to be mandated just STOP SHOPPING THERE THEY HAVE NO RESPECT FOR YOU.

I don't think most patrons would appreciate being compared to a violent thug terrorizing a gas station. It sounds like the attendant should go to prison, but there's no evidence whatsoever that race played a role.

I bet you 95%+ of the station customers are black, and strangely none of them had been previously shot. Perhaps the victim's behavior played a role in his demise.

[getmoore]

Blame the victim huh. Or He was a felon anyway. WOW. He lost his life for some petty bull. regardless of his past that shouldnt even be an argument. The clerk had no regard nor respect for his life, therefore they have no respect for NON of their customer's life. so Yeah they should be SHUT DOWN, and it doesnt have to be mandated just STOP SHOPPING THERE THEY HAVE NO RESPECT FOR YOU. Its another gas station across the street. They will be going out of bussiness whether they open up or not. They shouldnt have ANY customers. Unless some of you guys wanna patronize it.

Yes Black PPL Kill other Black PPL everyday. WE DONT LIKE THAT EITHER. Just because it happens dont mean we accept it or like it. The Vast Majority of us HATE it. So the whole "race-Batting" isnt the issue here. The issue is a bussiness in our community dont have ANY respect for its customers. Why shouldnt we want it shut down??? Gosh some of you people kill me

I'm just going to say this and leave it alone. The clerk SHOULD NOT have shot the guy. I said this in my first post. But you mention respect a few times in your post. You make it seem like the guy came in, said he wanted his money back and was shot in the back on his way out. I'm not going to attempt to crawl into the clerk's mind to find out what made him make the decision that he did. Nor am I going to try to understand how a dispute over $5.00 would make someone vandalize a store. But they BOTH contributed to that horribly sad outcome. TWO folks who didn't think through their actions. I myself would not have done what either of them did. Yes he lost his life for some petty bull. Bull that he helped create. If I have a problem with a clerk I would just not patronize his establishment again not trash his place! Respect goes both ways.
But if you're used to doing disrespectful things in your life [[his past) Then you walk around intimidating folks. If you do things like this, one day you may intimidate the WRONG guy! HE brought his past into that gas station!

I have no problem with protesting the store since the clerk was wrong. I just wish we were just more outraged at the victim's actions in this. It's almost like folk's are accepting this as "normal" behavior that should be "respected". Sad.

[getmoore]

I don't think most patrons would appreciate being compared to a violent thug terrorizing a gas station. It sounds like the attendant should go to prison, but there's no evidence whatsoever that race played a role.

I bet you 95%+ of the station customers are black, and strangely none of them had been previously shot. Perhaps the victim's behavior played a role in his demise.

STOP making sense !!

[laurin]

I don't think most patrons would appreciate being compared to a violent thug terrorizing a gas station. It sounds like the attendant should go to prison, but there's no evidence whatsoever that race played a role.

I bet you 95%+ of the station customers are black, and strangely none of them had been previously shot. Perhaps the victim's behavior played a role in his demise.

But other patrons of the gas station have reported that the clerk was known to brandish a gun during disagreements. I wonder as to the race of those patrons- that would be a much more telling as it's a bigger sample size. It's much better than the logic of but he only shot one black person out of hundreds, so there's no way it could be race-based.

Again, I don't think that he was sorely shot because he was black, but his being black played a role in the clerk's decisions. It was a combination of factors.

[313hero]

I bet you 95%+ of the station customers are black, and strangely none of them had been previously shot. Perhaps the victim's behavior played a role in his demise.[/QUOTE]

How about the Clerk's Behavior contributed to this. He asked for a REFUND cause he used to/could get them cheeper. The CLERK refused. So what was he supposed to do, take him to Court??? Seriously ppl, what was he supposed to do. Call the cops??? Yeah right we live in Detroit they would probably be just showing up now. The Clerk Bassically stole his money then got mad when the VICTIM messed up some stuff iin the store. Then the Clerk Killed a man that was already a victim. WTF is wrong w/ you???

[Wheels]

I bet you 95%+ of the station customers are black, and strangely none of them had been previously shot. Perhaps the victim's behavior played a role in his demise.

How about the Clerk's Behavior contributed to this. He asked for a REFUND cause he used to/could get them cheeper. The CLERK refused. So what was he supposed to do, take him to Court??? Seriously ppl, what was he supposed to do. Call the cops??? Yeah right we live in Detroit they would probably be just showing up now. The Clerk Bassically stole his money then got mad when the VICTIM messed up some stuff iin the store. Then the Clerk Killed a man that was already a victim. WTF is wrong w/ you???[/QUOTE]

If the price was to high why did he pay in the first place? We will never know the whole story it's just too "F" ed up.

[Bham1982]

.How about the Clerk's Behavior contributed to this. He asked for a REFUND cause he used to/could get them cheeper. The CLERK refused. So what was he supposed to do, take him to Court???

Most customers realize that, in small family-owned places, all sales are final, and there are no exchanges or refunds.

If the customer wanted the luxury of buying stuff and then trading it in for something else, he should have gone to the megastores and chain outlets that have this policy.

There's absolutely no obligation to have any sort of refund or exchange policy, and I think 99% of customers realize this.

The customer was basically a jerk for arguing with the employee. Then the customer escalated by trying to destroy the store. Doesn't justify his shooting, but it seems that very few people would be foolish enough to act as the customer chose to act.

[SWMAP]

The customer also had some pals and since they came in and out of the store several times, the scenario may have been menacing. Also, we don't know if threats were made.

[Scottathew]

As an aside, I really deplore the term 'race card.' I think it's thrown out to dismiss an argument that requires including a different perspective. It's quite condescending.

I really deplore people holding up signs saying "BlACK MALE MURDERED COLDBLOODED".

As to being a thug, it's been reported that the victim allegedly was vandalizing the store as part of his disagreement about condom prices. So yes, according to the allegations he was being a low-life thug, and it has nothing to do with his race and everything to do with his actions.

Now, of course it's only an allegation that he was doing those things, but his past criminal history most certainly adds credibility to the allegations.

The murder is still wrong. There's no amount of vandalism that should result in murder. However, you can lessen your chances of being murdered by not being a punk-thug.

[getmoore]

[QUOTE=laurin;309514]

Absolutely race is a factor. One can disagree on to what degree that it's a factor- primary, secondary, etc.
It's easy to interject facts after the point. Did the station clerk know that he was ex-con? We know now from the information coming out after the fact. The shooter in the Florida case probably also assumed that the little black boy in his neighborhood at night was a 'thug.' It's not so much about the victim, but the assumptions made by the victimizer that spurred the violence. The boy had skittles and a iced tea and was considered a threat. Race may not have been the deciding factor in the Detroit slaying- as in I'm going to shoot him because he's black, but it more than likely played into the clerk's decision that it was an acceptable thing to do.

I would, however, love to hear how the clerk would have described the situation that led up to his decision to shoot a man in the back on his way out of the store.

As an aside, I really deplore the term 'race card.' I think it's thrown out to dismiss an argument that requires including a different perspective. It's quite condescending.

I disagree. In that thinking absolutely 100% off all altercations between non-blacks and blacks are race related to some degree. I don't believe that. Also the term "race card"to me best describes how often race is used in these situations. To me it's quite fitting. We can agree to disagree.

I don't how I showed up as author of the quoted post above. No I'm not rebutting myself LOL!

[laurin]

[QUOTE=getmoore;309598]

I disagree. In that thinking absolutely 100% off all altercations between non-blacks and blacks are race related to some degree. I don't believe that. Also the term "race card"to me best describes how often race is used in these situations. To me it's quite fitting. We can agree to disagree.

I don't how I showed up as author of the quoted post above. No I'm not rebutting myself LOL!

I did not state that all altercations between blacks/whites/whatever are racially motivated. Merely this case. Race is a factor in this case.

Its a personal preference for race card. It's quite dismissive and only used in the negative. Oh, here comes the race card again.