Protesters setting up Camp in the D

**barnesfoto** · June-16-09, 01:46 PM

"Have these people been arrested yet or was this just a one day dalliance?"

Don't worry, President Ahmindinijad is meeting with officers of the Revolutionary Guard, and the problem will be dealt with very soon.

**bailey** · June-16-09, 01:53 PM

Perhaps the union and left-hating Ms Berman should have gotten out of her car. Would have spoiled a good, pre-written story, I suppose.

were you there?

**Danny** · June-16-09, 02:37 PM

The People Workers Party "100% pure Socialists" are making themselves known in Grand Circus Park promoting their cause to bailout the people instead of the governments bailing out the banks. I'm glad that they are protesting and making their temporary tent city settlement so their voice will be heard.
Socialism is fast growing norm in the United States and soon it is applying to the Democratic Party as a poweful weapon against the Neo Cons in which thet are very weak after their defeat of Sen. McCain and "Joe Six Pack" Palin. The rise of Democratic Socialism will destined to take over the all braches of Congresses including all state and local goverments to promote the workers' cause of a union based collectilization, free health care, press and assembly, religious freedom, free education, free science and space exploration excluding personal ethnic concerns and limited private ownership and global trade.

**detrola** · June-16-09, 07:31 PM

Originally Posted by oldredfordette

Most of the speakers at the Economic Forum are right wing Republicans, as close to open fascism as we [[hopefully) will see in our lifetime, led by Fat John Engler, the man who fucked up our state. They are there to prop up the form of capitalism that we are enduring right now. Don't you think that's their true agenda?

Go down to Tent City and ask the various groups why they are there. They'd be happy to tell you the unvarnished truth.

How many times do I have to remind detroiters that you have only yourselves to blame for John Engler. Coleman Young felt snubbed by Jim Blanchard and refused to get the vote out in support of his fellow democrat. Detroiters followed suit and John Engler was the result. I would suggest that our current Governor and her lack of leadership and inability to make hard choices has done far more damage to our state that Engler.

**Detroit Stylin** · June-16-09, 07:42 PM

Originally Posted by bailey

were you there?

Ummmmm I was there both days and it was more like 2 HUNDRED there....not the six you sarcastically screeched....

**WolverinesA2** · June-16-09, 07:43 PM

Originally Posted by econ expat

Keep emphasizing.
It can happen to me, it can happen to you.........
With the internet and phone lines, it is very easy to 'ship' or move intellectually created work, much easier than physically created work products.

Ask any of us whose 'degreed' professional job was outsourced overseas.
Jobs requring HS or less education seem to be a little more secure[[and easier to find) these days.

No, it CAN'T happen to me and it can't happen to a lot of people who chose a field of work that cannot be outsourced. Health care can't be outsourced, unless some doctor in India is going to examine you from 5000 miles on the other side of the globe. Retail/service jobs can't be outsourced. Construction can't be outsourced. There's lots of jobs that cannot be done in a foreign country because they require a person to actually be here to do them.

And what jobs requiring LESS than a high school education "tend to be secure and easy to find" these days? I'd love to hear this little gem.

**Maxine1958** · June-17-09, 08:09 AM

Originally Posted by WolverinesA2

No, it CAN'T happen to me and it can't happen to a lot of people who chose a field of work that cannot be outsourced. Health care can't be outsourced, unless some doctor in India is going to examine you from 5000 miles on the other side of the globe. Retail/service jobs can't be outsourced. Construction can't be outsourced. There's lots of jobs that cannot be done in a foreign country because they require a person to actually be here to do them.

And what jobs requiring LESS than a high school education "tend to be secure and easy to find" these days? I'd love to hear this little gem.

It's not that the doctor is in India, it's that doctors from India are coming here in droves. Retail and service jobs too are being filled by the spouses of the educated professional imports. Nearly all the pharmacy clerks or gas station attendents and many fast food places have employees whose first language is not English.

Those so called 'bottom level' jobs, the jobs that the 'American people don't want' are filled by the family members of the professional people brought here by corporations looking to hire new employees for a fraction of what they paid the ones they just let go.

I can't speak for contruction or agricultural jobs, just the ones I've witnessed or spoke to.

**Sstashmoo** · June-17-09, 08:33 AM

Quote: "Ummmmm I was there both days and it was more like 2 HUNDRED there....not the six you sarcastically screeched.... "

Including the panhandlers?

Quote: "No, it CAN'T happen to me and it can't happen to a lot of people who chose a field of work that cannot be outsourced. "

Like Healthcare, BUT it can be reduced to a state sponsored position and not pay much. That's what people are missing in this country when they feel this is just a Detroit/auto related problem. The economic conditions are going to effect everyone. Inflation/devaluation of currency. Huge pool of labor to draw from, employers will take advantage of, and will need to, because their earnings will be down. The whole premise that Detroit could wind up in a 1932 style depression and it not effect anyone else is just delusional.

**bailey** · June-17-09, 09:49 AM

Ummmmm I was there both days and it was more like 2 HUNDRED there....not the six you sarcastically screeched....

I didnt sarcastically screech anything. Simply quoting the article. I'd believe her account over the exaggeration that goes on here daily.

heywood mccrakin · June-17-09, 12:29 PM

Originally Posted by oldredfordette

Dianne Feeley is a brilliant woman and a well known writer and advocate for the working class, as well as a retired autoworker. Laugh at yourselves, it's going to happen to you when you're making fun. Will you have the fortitude to fight, or will you shrivel up and cry when the wolf comes to your door?

This demonstration is bigger than the autoworkers. Pay attention, listen to them.

hold up...it can't happen to me. sorry.

I pride myself at being the best at what i do. period.

if my job suddenly disappeares WHICH IT COULD, I would reinvent myself....not complain that life passed me by.

**econ expat** · June-17-09, 12:40 PM

Originally Posted by WolverinesA2

No, it CAN'T happen to me and it can't happen to a lot of people who chose a field of work that cannot be outsourced. Health care can't be outsourced, unless some doctor in India is going to examine you from 5000 miles on the other side of the globe. Retail/service jobs can't be outsourced. Construction can't be outsourced. There's lots of jobs that cannot be done in a foreign country because they require a person to actually be here to do them.

And what jobs requiring LESS than a high school education "tend to be secure and easy to find" these days? I'd love to hear this little gem.

Ah what's the use
You have a job, I lost mine to outsourcing and had to move from Michigan to work..
My bad.
7 years ago, we were recruiting grads to fill a shortage in my field, and " it couldn't happen to me"
5 years wasted? pursuing a degree in the wrong field, maybe?
We can't all work in the same field.
And as to the jobs requiring less education- we all need to get gas in the car, or shop in a retail store. Of course, the jobs don't pay well, I don't recall saying so.

**Maxine1958** · June-17-09, 12:42 PM

Originally Posted by heywood mccrakin

hold up...it can't happen to me. sorry.

I pride myself at being the best at what i do. period.

if my job suddenly disappeares WHICH IT COULD, I would reinvent myself....not complain that life passed me by.

Well good luck to you then.

I've been in same career for 30 years. Tried to do my best to keep up with the new stuff. Developed a reputation as a good, solid, reliable employee. But should I take a 90% pay cut just to compete with those coming here from other countries? When they do not know the business and have less than 5 years experience overall?

By the way, what would you recommend I reinvent myself as?

**Hypestyles** · June-17-09, 12:53 PM

getting off work Tuesday, I made it over to the site, I guess they had just started serving dinner... I didn't want to impose, so I declined.. just visited different tables to see the information that they had... from there, listening to the speakers that came, talking about assortments of labor/civil rights issues, and some singers after that.. the performers who sang "good ol' uncle tom" was hilarious..
... apparently Jesse Jackson made an appearance earlier in the day, along with the American Axle president..

**bailey** · June-18-09, 08:10 AM

Originally Posted by Maxine1958

Well good luck to you then.

I've been in same career for 30 years. Tried to do my best to keep up with the new stuff. Developed a reputation as a good, solid, reliable employee. But should I take a 90% pay cut just to compete with those coming here from other countries? When they do not know the business and have less than 5 years experience overall?

By the way, what would you recommend I reinvent myself as?

Yours is precisely the attitude that has killed Detroit and Michigan. Look, I'm sorry you invested 30 years of your life in a job that, according to you, you were 90% over paid for. It really sucks to have that rug pulled out from under you this late in the game, but c'mon...really? When were you told that lifetime employment at above market wages was a guarantee? At some point in the last 30 years you didn't at some point see the writing on the wall?

There is a reason jobs and investment will not come to Michigan. It's people with your attitude. "I am entitled to 90% more pay for doing the same job that can be done by a new hire because I've been here longer!"

Look, it's "change or die" time around here and it's going to be painful. But, it would have been a lot less painful if we'd have addressed the problems 30 years ago as we should have.

**Strathcona** · June-18-09, 08:21 AM

There's alot of problems we should have addressed around here 30 years ago--many issues going as far as 50 years ago.

**Reality_Check** · June-18-09, 08:52 AM

Originally Posted by oldredfordette

Most of the speakers at the Economic Forum are right wing Republicans, as close to open fascism as we [[hopefully) will see in our lifetime . . .

Responding belatedly because I was inside the purported epicenter of evil, listening to speakers who included:

* The presidents of UM, MSU and Wayne
* Obama's secretary of commerce
* Microsoft CEO Steve Ballmer [[native Metro Detroiter whose Swiss immigrant dad was a Ford manager here)
* A White House adviser from the Council on Enviro Quality
* The Democratic administration's chief tech officer
* The Democratic administration's asst sec'y of energy
* Eva Chen, an Asian-American founder of an online security firm

. . . And plenty of others who didn't seem right-wing or fascist, far as I could tell.

Even back when I had more hair and less sense, a time when I picketed Dow Chemical campus recruiters because the company made napalm dropped on 'Nam, I thought the type of reflexive rhetoric spewed by Redfordette was empty, insulting to intelligence and juvenile.

Now I suggest our posturing poster should be studied as an alternative fuel source, a seemingly bottomless source of hot air. The Parade Company can use you in late November, 'dette, when they have some Thanksgiving balloons to inflate.

**Sstashmoo** · June-18-09, 09:08 AM

Walter P Reuther injected the element that eventually killed Detroit. The auto companies were already some of the highest paying jobs in the country at the time. People were greedy and took what they could. The auto companies were unable to adjust to market trends because of their contractual labor obligations. That's who and what killed them.

Find my posts from a year or so back, I said it then and I'll say it now, when the UAW walked out at that time, they should have locked them out and fired them all. Kicked the UAW to the curb. The government knowing the bankruptcy/bailouts were looming would have been on their side. It would have been a bitter pill, but it would have saved their asses.

**Kevgoblu** · June-18-09, 01:20 PM

Originally Posted by WolverinesA2

No, it CAN'T happen to me and it can't happen to a lot of people who chose a field of work that cannot be outsourced. Health care can't be outsourced, unless some doctor in India is going to examine you from 5000 miles on the other side of the globe. Retail/service jobs can't be outsourced. Construction can't be outsourced. There's lots of jobs that cannot be done in a foreign country because they require a person to actually be here to do them.

And what jobs requiring LESS than a high school education "tend to be secure and easy to find" these days? I'd love to hear this little gem.

"Health care can't be outsourced"
Really? http://www.cnn.com/2009/HEALTH/03/27...vel/index.html

"Construction can't be outsourced"
Really? Maybe not 100% but a vast majority of it potentially can be. http://www.scrapbookscrapbook.com/DA...it-houses.html

Whether we like it or not, we are absolutely the high cost provider for just about every good and service we produce here in the U.S. A LOT of people are going to learn this fact the hard way before its all said and done.

**Det_ard** · June-18-09, 01:27 PM

The average American has multiple careers and numerous employers in their lifetime. It's common knowledge.

Preparing yourself to take advantage of those changes is your responsibility. It's common sense.

Whining about it, blaming others and failing to do your part is all too common in this lunch bucket mentality town.

**Maxine1958** · June-18-09, 02:55 PM

Originally Posted by bailey

Yours is precisely the attitude that has killed Detroit and Michigan. Look, I'm sorry you invested 30 years of your life in a job that, according to you, you were 90% over paid for. It really sucks to have that rug pulled out from under you this late in the game, but c'mon...really? When were you told that lifetime employment at above market wages was a guarantee? At some point in the last 30 years you didn't at some point see the writing on the wall?

There is a reason jobs and investment will not come to Michigan. It's people with your attitude. "I am entitled to 90% more pay for doing the same job that can be done by a new hire because I've been here longer!"

Look, it's "change or die" time around here and it's going to be painful. But, it would have been a lot less painful if we'd have addressed the problems 30 years ago as we should have.

Wow, you really misunderstood part of my post.

I did not mean to say that I was '90% over paid for my work. What I meant was that they are bringing people here, paying them 10% of my salary to do the same job. I make a decent income, 5 healthy figures.

For the sake of explanation, let's say $50,000. When they bring in someone, pay them $5,000, plus $100 a day living expenses, and pay their transportation costs, how is that fair? I'm not necessarily talking about 'new hires' either. Some of these people have been doing the same job in their home countries for many years.

By the way, I have a 'white collar' job, special training, higher education, non-union.

Wow, there is so much more I could say about this, but we are talking apples and oranges, so I don't know where to start.

**bailey** · June-18-09, 03:51 PM

For the sake of explanation, let's say $50,000. When they bring in someone, pay them $5,000, plus $100 a day living expenses, and pay their transportation costs, how is that fair?

Nobody said it was fair. I'm sure it's a kick in the teeth. But it is what it is. The fact remains that you stated there are those out there willing to do the exact same job--presumably at the same competence level--you are doing for 90% less in wages. If that is true, who would you hire if you were and owner?

**Maxine1958** · June-18-09, 04:20 PM

Originally Posted by bailey

Nobody said it was fair. I'm sure it's a kick in the teeth. But it is what it is. The fact remains that you stated there are those out there willing to do the exact same job--presumably at the same competence level--you are doing for 90% less in wages. If that is true, who would you hire if you were and owner?

Ah ha! See they are not at the same 'competence level'. They do not have the same background experience and knowledge that my peers and I have. And they can't gain it in the 90 day turnover period alloted to them.

Would I hire them if I owned the company? Not to replace existing employees. And depending on the work I wanted to accomplish, I may not hire someone at that salary, no matter how much it would save me.

There is something to be said [[and paid) for experience.

**pffft** · June-18-09, 04:23 PM

Originally Posted by bailey

Nobody said it was fair. I'm sure it's a kick in the teeth. But it is what it is. The fact remains that you stated there are those out there willing to do the exact same job--presumably at the same competence level--you are doing for 90% less in wages. If that is true, who would you hire if you were and owner?

So Bailey, you always go for the lowball vendor, not the best? I don't think I want to drive across any bridge you build...

**jt1** · June-18-09, 05:43 PM

I wonder how many of these people have been supporting the city of Detroit as we have dealt with these hard times over the last 20 years?

There is a lot of crying and whining from other cities and residents of other cities when they would happily mock Detroit and it's issues while ignoring the problems.

I have little sympathy for many of the impacted people as many/most people I know openly laughed about the issues Detroit and it's residents faced. Now that they are facing the same they want my sympathy and my help.

Sorry, I just don't have the time to worry about them now that our 'problems' have spread.

**Maxine1958** · June-18-09, 05:52 PM

Originally Posted by jt1

I wonder how many of these people have been supporting the city of Detroit as we have dealt with these hard times over the last 20 years?

There is a lot of crying and whining from other cities and residents of other cities when they would happily mock Detroit and it's issues while ignoring the problems.

I have little sympathy for many of the impacted people as many/most people I know openly laughed about the issues Detroit and it's residents faced. Now that they are facing the same they want my sympathy and my help.

Sorry, I just don't have the time to worry about them now that our 'problems' have spread.

Are you referring to the protesters, the people attending the summit meetings, or the rest of us?